Pakistani Women Buried Alive 'for Choosing Husbands'

reply to post by moocowman


your post just confused the hell out of me... though i think i get it

i just hate when people automatically assume because someone is male, female, jewish, black, atheist ectect that they are more inclined to think & act in certain ways. its a cop out and a lazy response in my eyes. i am not being ignorant here and do understand cultures have their way of doing things ie. italians love pasta and brazilians love g-strings though to assume more woman are abused if their muslim is kinda sad.

Originally posted by enlighten2012
reply to post by moocowman

 

your post just confused the hell out of me... though i think i get it

i just hate when people automatically assume because someone is male, female, jewish, black, atheist ectect that they are more inclined to think & act in certain ways. its a cop out and a lazy response in my eyes. i am not being ignorant here and do understand cultures have their way of doing things ie. italians love pasta and brazilians love g-strings

though to assume more woman are abused if their muslim is kinda sad.

Allthough I would agree that the above assumption is kinda sad, nevertheless it would appear that it is a fact.

Allthough I'm sure many would would disagree with my observation, I am including mental abuse in my assumption.

It would appear that most societies up till now, have been led/controlled/ inspired/ corrupted by one religion or another. It is a fact that many of the religions have historically relegated the females' place in society to one, for all intents and purposes no greater than a pet or a baby maker.

This position on the social ladder has got to be the ultimate in mental abuse for any person as it is socially accepted, the society obviously being made up by men.

I don't want to come across as some male feminist but the fact that many religious scriptures still to this day, contain dogmas that clearly instruct men to view women in this manner quite horrifies me.

Allthough many pious people (mainly men) will jump up with their wagging religious finger at my remarks, claiming that this or that religion has changed or that certain parts of their scripture do not mean what they apppear to mean, the fact remains that the words that instruct harm are still there .

If I was to write a book which included that I belived that a new bride if found not to be a virgin should be put to death. My book would certainly no sell many copies and I would I'm sure have a very hard time of it in public for a while.

However If I took my book and insisted my children believe what is in it and also enticed other people to do so, I'm sure I would rightly be hauled off to court for inciting hate crimes.
My defence could be that I didn't reallly meany what I wrote in that particular part of my book or my views had somehowe changed. I dont really know whether a jury comprising an equal amount of women would belive my sudden change of heart.

To me here lies the hypocrasy, many religious books carry those derogatory instructions on how to treat your woman or even slave, these books do not contain a preface saying that allthough the quite clear instructions are there, thay are not to be acted upon because society changed.

So the question to religion is this ,
If the instructions in your scriptures pertaining to the treatment of women or slaves is socially unacceptable and equally unacceptable to the modern believer, why are they not removed from the scripture ? The beliver may be of the opinion that this offensive material is no longer applicable but nevertheless it's still offensive.

My favourite arguments are the "well Christians used to do X" arguments.

We did, and we stopped it. They are still doing it. See the difference yet?

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
My favourite arguments are the "well Christians used to do X" arguments.

We did, and we stopped it. They are still doing it. See the difference yet?

Well, you're not...look Fred Phelps. See the similarity, yet?

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
My favourite arguments are the "well Christians used to do X" arguments.

We did, and we stopped it. They are still doing it. See the difference yet?

When you say "we" I assume you are a christian , are you saying you speak for all christians ?

Are you saying that your particlurar scriptures dont have any instructions to treat women less than men?

Or is this just your take on what you read in your scriptures ?

Are you sayin for example that women are allowed to be deacons and such within the christian church, if so when did this take place ?

If not , could it be because women are deemed far less than equal?


Or are the above different kinds of christians to you ?


Do you also mean to tell me that a homosexual is now allowed into your heaven without having to stop being a homosexual ?

i am intrigued


If you no longer practice what was discussed, would it not be prudent to remove the instuctions for these repugnant beliefs from your scriptures?

I'm sure you would agree that killing a woman for not being a virgin is repugnant no ?

Or are they left in just incase you wish to apply them at a later date ?

If a screw turns anticlockwise, having instructions telling me in some vague manner at the back of the manual maybe I dont have to turn it at all or it could be damaging, is not really conducive to putting my IKEA wardrobe together is it ?

Please think about this befor your respond if at all

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Dude, scuse my ignorance but who's Fred Phelps when he's at home?

2 lines now

We must keep traditions alive.

Like going to war.

reply to post by moocowman


Oh how convenient,it was just a coincedence was it?
Is it also a coincedence that the name Lucifer (the big scary red monkey with supernatural powers etc..) was also just inspired by a particularly nasty Mesopotanian king?
Thats the trouble with a great many of these indoctrinated,conditioned,narrow minded,extremist cult members of Abrahamic relgions.....they wouldn´t know the truth if they had it on a sandwich.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
My favourite arguments are the "well Christians used to do X" arguments.

We did, and we stopped it. They are still doing it. See the difference yet?

Long ago Muslims where toted as being far, far more tolerant to other religions than Christianity. They stopped that too. See the similarity?

[edit on 3-9-2008 by merka]

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Dude, scuse my ignorance but who's Fred Phelps when he's at home?

2 lines now

Line One: Fred Phelps is the Pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka Kansas.

Line Two: www.godhatesfags.com

...and a gratuitous Line Three tossed in for free...if the atrocity that this thread is discussing is permitted to sum up Islam, then it is fair for the Westboro Baptist Church to represent a summing up of Christianity.

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
My favourite arguments are the "well Christians used to do X" arguments.

We did, and we stopped it. They are still doing it. See the difference yet?

When you say "we" I assume you are a christian , are you saying you speak for all christians ?

I'll have to stop you right there, because I'm not a Christian. I was referring to Western Europe, as we have historically been very Christian, up until recent times.

Unfortunately this seems to render the rest of your post obsolete.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin



Thank you for obsoliting the rest of my post that saved a lot of typing, sorry to have misunderstood where you were coming from.

Its so easy to misunderstand what other people write, sometimes don't you think ?


imagine how confusing it could have been if you posted over a thousand years ago in Swahili, then your post got deleted but , a few other ATSers remembered bits of what you had to say and past it on verbally for a couple of hundred years.
Then someone decided to repost what they thought you may have been talking about and as all people do add on their own little take on things.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Thanks for the info,
first off this Phelps dude seems to look remarkably like the creepy preacher in the Poltergeist films

To me the guy is obviously a funking bigoted wacko and very dangerous.

What most concerns me is that he believes what the bible tells him so if this man is guilty of anything so are the writers of the bible.

Other christians cannot prove that Phelps' interpretation of the bible is incorrect as the bible is so vague and full of contradiction.

However, as a lawyer (even a shiit one) Phelps can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bible tells him homosexuals are an abomination and should be put to death.

Phelps is obviously not stupid, he knows that should the people of the US condemn him as a bigot and "Rightly" try to prevent his hate mongoring they would have to put the bible on trial.

Could that be such a bad thing?

Frankly I love it.
Just one more bit of evidence of the barbarians that proclaim islam is good.
At some point the boneheads of the world will get over it and do something about it.
Religion...all religions...are despicable. Their priests, etc. use the glory of "heaven" and misery of "hell" to subjugate and control their followers.
All I can hope for is we smarten up and someday when these foul people face "God", he/she/it will punish them appropriately for their sins.
By the way I believe in God and believe he/she/it is far above any religion.

It's no wonder why so many middle easterners move to the US, even though they badmouth it so much like it's a terrible country. We don't make women cover there faces, or bury them alive when they chose a husband. So keep coming to the US, getting government aid, taking all the jobs while not being able to speak understandable English, use the system for what it's worth, and continue to try to make our country like the one you left. Foot baths in airports, airport employees wearing turbans, etc.

Maybe I will move to another country and try to get a job, knowing only English, and see if the government will help me out. That would be a laugh.

Only in America.

"When you realise why you discount all other gods but one, you'll understand why I discount your god."

Wonder what would happen if all the women in these 'civilised' countries just up and left to come to the real world. What would these enlightened muslim men do then?
If these women took a stand and stood by each other then maybe one day the islamic faith may be held with respect by other religeons and by people around the world.
the trouble with 'honour killings' that the islamic world can't or don't seem to realise is that to the rest of the world they seem barabric and that nothing has changed since 2000 - 3000 years ago. So the whole Islamic religeon is judged by the sad few who indulge in this repulsive act.
What a world to bring children up in, as they either see their mother's or sister's being mistreated and killed by their fathers or grandfather's, and therefore think that it's ok to treat women like that. It self perpetuates and is disgusting.
If the women all left the men would have to fend for themselves and how long till they ralise that they treated the ones who did all the cooking and cleaning with contempt. They wouldn't last long before trying to pick on someone they think is weaker than them but then getting their butts kicked. because thats all these people are , they're bullies.
Women need to make a stand to fight for their rights as human beings and not as cattle , if they keep being treated like cattle and putting up with it then all that's all they'll be viewed as, cattle or trophies.
The women made a stand in the 19th century in the UK and now they have 'almost' equal rights, there is still people who are sexist, but the numbers are dying.
There were casualties for the women but they made they're point and now being treated properly.
The Islamic women must make the stand to be more that doormats.
The men need to change as well but with neanderthals doing the damage by talking with their fists and not their mouths or hearts, but the change will be hard, but if the men realise it makes them better men , and more in tune with their God's spirit to treat all people with respect because until they have respect for their kin , no one will have any for them.

There is a more drastic way for the women to get their revenge on the men and thats not to bear them any children. see how far the religeon gets then....


[edit on 4/9/08 by DataWraith]

reply to post by moocowman


I think these two videos do a pretty good job of summing up how many muslims feel about domestic abuse:
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...


[edit on 01/12/01 by karl 12]

Originally posted by DataWraith
Wonder what would happen if all the women in these 'civilised' countries just up and left to come to the real world. What would these enlightened muslim men do then?
If these women took a stand and stood by each other then maybe one day the islamic faith may be held with respect by other religeons and by people around the world. ...

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Has the "liberation" of women in the west added to our society? Are the children better cared for? Have marriages become more stable? Has divorce all but disappeared? Have women become more faithful to their husbands as a result of this "liberation"? Have they chosen to breed with good quality men, or the thugs, criminals, and lowlifes? Have women, in general, been responsible or irresponsible in their new-found "freedoms" here in the west?

Compare all the relevant statistics in those areas between the west and islamic societies, then we can have a meaningful discussion on this topic. Until then, you are engaged in wishful thinking.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by DataWraith
Wonder what would happen if all the women in these 'civilised' countries just up and left to come to the real world. What would these enlightened muslim men do then?
If these women took a stand and stood by each other then maybe one day the islamic faith may be held with respect by other religeons and by people around the world. ...

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Has the "liberation" of women in the west added to our society? Are the children better cared for? Have marriages become more stable? Has divorce all but disappeared? Have women become more faithful to their husbands as a result of this "liberation"? Have they chosen to breed with good quality men, or the thugs, criminals, and lowlifes? Have women, in general, been responsible or irresponsible in their new-found "freedoms" here in the west?

Compare all the relevant statistics in those areas between the west and islamic societies, then we can have a meaningful discussion on this topic. Until then, you are engaged in wishful thinking.

I assume this is the viewpoint of a man.

As a 60+ year old woman - who has experienced sexism - YES! I am 100% better off today thanks to the "women's liberation movement" - and so are my two daughters.

Let me know when this country makes mandatory DNA testing for paternity. Because as of TODAY - if a woman becomes pregnant - she is fully responsible for proving paternity - must pay for it out of her own pocket - and can only get DNA if the man volunteers to give it.

I absolutely agree with DataWraith. If women want freedom and equality - they have to take it. They have to bond together and make it happen. No one else will do it for them. Unfortunately in a culture were most women still believe the man is "rule" - it is going to be extremely difficult.

Unfortunately - where religion rules - including America - many women still believe man has the right to control women.