A man is a man, and a woman is a woman....

originally posted by: iammrhappy86
The only reason there are so many "gender-confused" people is because we put the notion in their head that we should choose our gender, and kids/teenagers are immensely susceptible to identity crisis's.

If we actually tested this, I could prove it to you.

Get a control group, say 1 million kids. We raise the boys to identify as boys. And the girls to identify as girls from birth. You'll see what... Maybe 0.000000001% have gender confusion?

Then get another million kids, and reinforce the idea from birth that their gender is NOT determined by their anatomy and genetics. I wouldn't be surprised to find that roughly 50% of them will be gender confused as young adults...

Stop telling the kids they get to decide their genders..... The few exceptions may chose to do as they please in their adult life, and we should try to keep our judgment to a minimum, they are adults, let them do as they please with their bodies.
But we have NO RIGHTS to confuse children on their identity... Its just wrong. Let girls be girls and boys be boys. Don't start telling them they get to chose their gender, we're gonna # up the future generations and further ruin the male/female dynamic that is already currently suffering due to extreme feminism and the residual sexist male mentality of our past.

Let's not make things worse.... We should celebrate women being women. And men being men. REMEMBER what it means to be a man or woman, and be proud of it.
Get to know and love yourself instead of attempting to re-invent yourself....

Please....

Agreed..

I somehow feel the opposite. I think gender confusion could easily exit the physical realm if "what it means" to be male or female was just physical, and not a lifestyle. As in, men have male parts and women have female parts. But this clothing is not "male" clothing and "female" clothing, and this job is not a "male" job or "female" job, and this toy is not a "boys" toy or "girls" toy. Objects and actions should stop being genders. That way people could "express" themselves how they wanted, without feeling like their physical parts are in the way. If it was fine for a man to like all feminine stuff and live and behave that way, then maybe he wouldn't feel like he was physically made wrong and want to change. He would just be physically who he is and act in life how he acts.

That's my opinion, anyway..

originally posted by: iammrhappy86
The only reason there are so many "gender-confused" people is because we put the notion in their head that we should choose our gender, and kids/teenagers are immensely susceptible to identity crisis's.

If we actually tested this, I could prove it to you.

Get a control group, say 1 million kids. We raise the boys to identify as boys. And the girls to identify as girls from birth. You'll see what... Maybe 0.000000001% have gender confusion?

Then get another million kids, and reinforce the idea from birth that their gender is NOT determined by their anatomy and genetics. I wouldn't be surprised to find that roughly 50% of them will be gender confused as young adults...

Stop telling the kids they get to decide their genders..... The few exceptions may chose to do as they please in their adult life, and we should try to keep our judgment to a minimum, they are adults, let them do as they please with their bodies.
But we have NO RIGHTS to confuse children on their identity... Its just wrong. Let girls be girls and boys be boys. Don't start telling them they get to chose their gender, we're gonna # up the future generations and further ruin the male/female dynamic that is already currently suffering due to extreme feminism and the residual sexist male mentality of our past.

Let's not make things worse.... We should celebrate women being women. And men being men. REMEMBER what it means to be a man or woman, and be proud of it.
Get to know and love yourself instead of attempting to re-invent yourself....

Please....

a reply to: kaylaluv

It's not a matter of who's to blame, I couldn't care less who's to blame. I just want to minimize the confusion on kids; it's already hard enough to learn who you are. Let's not make it harder on them.

Statistically, you're a lot more likely to have one kid confused than all of them, of course. If they're all confused, then either you did something wrong or you Kay be genetically predisposed for it, I don't know.

If your kid already knows from a young age that he's the 'wrong' gender, then just let him/her be who he/she thinks he/she is. Try not to put emphasis on it. Just remind them you love them no matter what, and hope they don't get bullied over it.

Later in life, if it's consistent they'll get the change and vr glad you supported them.

But don't put emphasis on it. Let them discover who they are at their own pace. For all you know, it might just be a phase. If not, oh well, at least your kid is smart enough to know who they are at a young age.

a reply to: iammrhappy86

That all sounds great, until the kid reaches puberty. Then, irreversible changes happen. So many of these kids have nightmares about going through puberty, because becoming an adult version of the gender they do not identify with is the worst thing they can imagine. Some of them are willing to kill themselves if they have to go through puberty. '

If your kid is telling you point blank that they will end their own life if they have to go through those permanent changes, do you just say "too bad, love ya"?

a reply to: TheBlackTiger

I partially agree with you; toys and jobs shouldn't be gender associated.

On clothes however, I don't want to see men wear daisy dukes and dresses... But I guess that's just me. Lol.

I don't like this blurring of the lines between male/female. We are very different, and that's what makes it such a beautiful union.

I believe in celebrating our differences. Same goes for ethnic background; be proud of your ancestry and celebrate what makes us all different! Let's share and learn and laugh at what we think is 'odd', but in good spirits. The more we learn about a culture, the more the oddities make sense, and that's the best part of it!

I don't want to live in a world where everyone is the exact same, and if you point out someone's difference you get called out for being a bigot....

Bigotry is shameful, as it stands to diminish others based on their differences. If we blur the lines and fail to recognize what makes us different, then we gave in to the judgmental bigots... They win.

Let's be different! Let's be ourselves, who we were born as. Let's learn together what makes us tick, and how diverse the world really is.

We're all different. But we're all together and of the same species. That should be enough common ground, no?

a reply to: kaylaluv

We all go through puberty. Its a natural thing, and you should support your kid and encourage him to love himself for who he is. He is perfect the way he is, and its important to recognize that and be ok with it.

You think shooting your kid with chemical hormones before his body has fully matured is a good solution?

There are plenty of adults who successfully changed sex to a point where you won't be able to tell, and they went through puberty naturally like the rest of us.

YOU as a parent should know better than to let your kid make serious life altering decisions at a young age... They are too young to make these decisions.

And a developing body should not be introduced to chemicals produced in a lab.... Let it mature naturally. Then alter it if you wish, at that point you'll be a mature adult capable of making your own decisions after careful and thorough consideration.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Hazardous1408

So tomorrow I think I'm going to live my day as a starving Bangladeshi boy because that would totally make sense, and these kids would completely let me do that even though I look nothing like:

1.) a little boy
2.) like I am starving
3.) I am Bangladeshi

Why? Because it would be mean and judgmental of them to express skepticism of my pronouncements that I am a little starving Bangladeshi boy which is entirely the point.

Can't believe in actually seeing this not on Befo....ahem...but here on ATS. Its the same as the morons who think they have justified their hatred of other humans by outsmarting everyone with the zen and oh so sage question, "if men are able to marry men then why can't I marry my houseplant?" To this day I still don't know if those who ask are joking and they see the glaring problem everyone else sees in that analogy or are they really such stupid low level intelligence human C-ings that must be walked through the fact there's a major difference and its that a houseplant is not a human being with complex emotionsand the desire to be loved and to act on feelings of love as freely and free of shame as any other human being (this explains why "if gay marriage why can't I marry a four year old," question is just as moronic). Also, its a matter of common sense. And while there is a teeny tiny chunk of people who are sexually attracted to some object or another, the unfortunate word given "homosexuality," contains that buzz word sex which completely buries in peoples minds the more important side (love) which is that although those people may like bonking feather dusters, we will worry about legislation to allow people to marry them once percentage of the population as a whole actually fall IN LOVE with said object and want to give that person such intimate expressed rights over them as deciding when its time to let them die or if they should stay in limbo mechanically alive following some horrible accident. Or, we could take common sense even further and say we know its not psychologically normal to want to marry a mop but falling in love with another human being is tale as old as time regardless of gender and therefore no Joe schmoe has the power to decide one way or another on it (plus it seems that its very existence means nature ruled on it long ago).

So while I know some people consider it taboo to link the homosexuality thing with the transgender thing, at present we can't ignore that the same issues are arising in both scenarios. So the problem with this stupid analogy is the same. Well, first your analogy says one day you woke up and felt a unique urge to be different, transgender people wake up to it every single day so lets not start by comparing it to my whim to go catch a horror movie today although in general in not big on movies that's absurd. Second... Common sense says there aren't tens of thousands of people waking up every day not WANTING TO BE as you said but under the impression that they really are a different race or socioeconomic status unless you are talking about the many-a-suburban upper middle class WASP boy who wears his Calvin Klein and Prada two sizes too big, around his ankles, and raps about being from the hood. Though not totally understood itself, lets not offend people by saying their inner struggle is akin to the phenomenon that is the wigga. The fact is that a larger number than I ever iimagined are born each day with a penis and vagina or neither a penis nor vagina or something in between. Then you can throw in the fact we know squat about hormones in fact, one of the biggest problems canvassing women in general is that something like 3 in 4 women are extremely in need of testosterone replacement which has been depleted. Most people will yell you men have testosterone and women estrogen. Well, the pros don't know much more than that and what is known nobody can agree on. What I say we can agree on is that there are indeed people who by tens of thousands say there transgender. And with the question of gender being a physical one a genitals one a hormone one a simple identifying one etc etc, so the only question left to ask is is it naturally occurring or a mental problem. But I interject what if its a myriad of other possibilities? What if hormone play in our food supplies has caused it? Should they pay for that? Furthermore they are human just like the rest of us and desire happiness. So shouldn't the question be one that need not even be asked if A. We know its a real phenomenon B. They are indeed reporting happier lives embracing such a lifestyle? Because it was never a big issue before and it only seems to be now because people are so dumb nowadays theyre turning molehill issues into nationwide mountain debates about how every bathroom on earth must change, a lot like the level of logic in this analogy.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Here's another example.

Say you're black, and you live in a predominantly racist white neighborhood (just a hypothetical example here, bare with me and hold your judgment.....).

Your kid resents his skin color and tells you he wish he was white skinned. Would you go and get him an expensive surgery to alter his skin pigmentation!?
No. You'd do everything you can to make him appreciate and love himself for what he is. Because you, as an adult, know how hard it can be, and you've lived through it and can help him learn to love himself for what he is instead of enabling him in drastically modifying his anatomy based on societal peer pressure or conformity.

And please understand, I don't want to make this a race thing, just trying to get a point across.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone with this post, it couldn't be further from my intention.

a reply to: iammrhappy86

So it sounds like you are telling the kid to go ahead and kill him self. Good to know.

a reply to: iammrhappy86

Not the same thing AT ALL.

Gender dysphoria is most likely a neurological disorder that won't go away just because you tell the kid to love himself. You can't pray it away, and you can't love it away, and you can't punish it away.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: iammrhappy86

So it sounds like you are telling the kid to go ahead and kill him self. Good to know.

So it sounds like you refuse to listen to other people's opinion and like to accuse others who disagree with your view of being insensitice or inhumane.

I see how you are, and I'm not going to debate with you further as you've shown me you're incapable of doing so with maturity and respect.

Have a nice day, and lighten up.

Nobody wants anyone to kill themselves... We all want the same thing: kids to have a happy life and grow to become responsible and wise adults.


Edit: who the heck give that post a star!? This is what the world's come to? "You don't agree with me, so you hate children and love terrorists" that mentality is a dangerous one to adopt, and shows limited communication skills. Its a sign of someone with a closed mind incapable of listening to someone, and prone to making unfounded accusations. This helps no-one and only serves to aggravate and instigate.

There should be no room for such behavior in this forum...

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: iammrhappy86

Not the same thing AT ALL.

Gender dysphoria is most likely a neurological disorder that won't go away just because you tell the kid to love himself. You can't pray it away, and you can't love it away, and you can't punish it away.

I don't think its a disorder... I think its wrong to label it as such, because right off the bat you're looking at it like something is wrong with the person that needs to be medically fixed...

Anyway, not gonna debate with you further, I see its pointless. Sadly... =

a reply to: iammrhappy86

When the body doesn't match what the brain says, there is something that needs to be medically fixed.

You have no idea of what these kids go through, and what the parents of these kids go through. I personally know of more than one real-life example. I have heard the frustration, I have seen the sadness, the anguish, the confusion and the feeling of being lost. Until you have lived it or seen it first hand, you just don't know.

And yes, I get angry as hell when I hear someone say that the kid is going to have to suck it up and deal with puberty like everyone else. THEY AREN'T LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

a reply to: kaylaluv

This is what's wrong with society today.
If there is a lack of synchronicity within mind and body, we immediately jump to chemicals produced in a lab instead of addressing the issue at its root; within the mind.

Today's society knows so little about our own psyche, yet we think we have a cure to every psychological 'anomaly' (not the best word, but I'll use it for now) by shooting up the body with chemicals...

It's the wrong approach.

a reply to: iammrhappy86

Again, you can not talk someone out of a neurological issue. You can't love it away, you can't pray it away, you can't threaten it away. You either have to physically change the brain, or you have to physically change the body. If you do absolutely nothing, the dysphoria won't go away. It just won't. We have no idea how to physically change the brain to get rid of the dysphoria, but we do know how to physically change the body so that it matches the brain.

Therapy doesn't work for gender dysphoria. It has never worked. Psychiatrists and psychologists have been trying for years. It does not work.

a reply to: kaylaluv

People need to stop looking outwards for a solution to their psychological difficulties.

And to change this mentality that "only physical alteration works, nothing else will work EVER period whatsoever it is impossible"

I don't like that everything is now being labeled as an illness and must be medicated...

But I don't have your solution for you, because you wouldn't listen as you've already decided that it's the only solution. So be it. Destroy your bodies all you want.

The future repercussions for coming generations lies on your shoulders for this.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
Gender is not a choice, it is determined based on your genetics. Anyways what are your thoughts on the responses these people give to his questions?

Social engineers in the west are trying to separate gender with sex because they cannot argue with sex. We cannot changed a persons sex, but the day we will is the day we will be able to change people into bananas. But the premise is the same, trying to change something into something it is NOT to begin with.

Why are the governments pushing this agenda on the 99.9%? What is to be gained? What is the real goal here? Because the establishment CERTAINLY do not care about the RIGHTS of the people.

a reply to: iammrhappy86

You don't have a solution because you can't just stop having gender dysphoria by not wanting it.

Jazz is representative of the future generation of transgender kids. She went on puberty blockers to prevent the devastating (to her) effects of male puberty. She is now on female hormones. She doesn't look "destroyed" to me.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: iammrhappy86

You don't have a solution because you can't just stop having gender dysphoria by not wanting it.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

OBJECTIVE:
The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide.

CLINICAL PICTURE:
An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change.

TREATMENT:
Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried.

OUTCOME:
There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then.

CONCLUSION:
Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.

a reply to: Debunkology

Great - one guy who probably didn't even have gender dysphoria to begin with. You think this is the first time that an anti-psych med has been tried on a true transgender person? If they worked wonderfully, they would be used on all those with gender dysphoria right now.