Calling all atheists

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by TruthLover557

 

It seems strange since we don't believe we are going to Hell. Is that it?

Well I agree with boymonkey74's post but I'll add my wording.

It's what it represents. Someone that says that is essentially saying you're a disgrace of a person and you deserve to burn. The fact atheists don't believe it is irrelevant, it's the fact atheists know the religious person does.

edit on 5-1-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

wrong, sorry.
we don't have that power. would not want it either.

call it a warning. lol.

you people give yourselves too much importance, or are just sensitive to your sinful ways, when people call you out on it. where is your faith?

oooooooooooooooooo i won't go to heaven because it doesn't exist! lol!
how many times was that said here on ats?

reply to post by tsingtao

i'd send them to fire island.

put their butt on the train myself. lololololol!!

I find it rather reprehensible it's a laughing matter. You essentially just became Hitler 'hypothetically'. Even worse actually since it's eternal torture. But whatever. Have your laughs. Let the other Christians star your post and pretend this is a position of higher morality.

reply to post by Lice00

Anti-theists are the ones that get pissed if you believe in god

I usually label myself an anti-theist. Typically how I address it in threads. Yes I am 'militant' in the sense that I am actively antagonistic. Which I don't think is a bad thing at all. I am not 'pissed' about god belief. I am pissed beliefs based on faith alone have impacted our World in damaging ways and continue to.

reply to post by MrConspiracy


well said.

and the "what about turning the other cheek" gets way old, too.

we only have 2 cheeks, 1 could be a pass, 2 is an attack.

Jesus took a beating, He doesn't require the rest of us to take one.

He WAS Jesus btw. we are not.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Lice00

 

Anti-theists are the ones that get pissed if you believe in god

I usually label myself an anti-theist. Typically how I address it in threads. Yes I am 'militant' in the sense that I am actively antagonistic. Which I don't think is a bad thing at all. I am not 'pissed' about god belief. I am pissed beliefs based on faith alone have impacted our World in damaging ways and continue to.

Yeah, its just easier when people are honest and open about it. I mean if going out of your way to be antagonistic to people just because you feel their beliefs have had some negative impact on our world (lol irony) makes you feel good then great. I just fail to see the big difference in the anti-theists and any other neo-nazi type hate group.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Yes, they make room in torture chambers or at the end of a sword trying to convert them by force and failing that condemning them to hell. I'm not really sure what you are getting at, but history shows that Abrahamic religions make little room for the non-believers. So much so that many ancient skeptics and atheists had to publicly say they were Christian, but one can deduce their real beliefs through their writings and some of their quotes.

there were atheists back then? for all the gods?

really? lol. roman empire?

maybe in the OT, or muslims now.
but no christians are in the OT.

christian was pejorative, it meant "little christs"

C21H30O2I
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Yes, I suppose it is. I really do respect others beliefs, I just try and portray what I believe in, I am aware I can come off as someone who thinks highly of myself over others, that's not the case tho. I just am trying to compare my logic to Christian logic. It is a hard subject to debate sometimes without coming off like an inconsiderate jerk.

The bible is just a difficult book for me to accept as truth. I am an Atheist/Humanist.

explain "christian logic". please.

reply to post by Lice00

I mean if going out of your way to be antagonistic to people just because you feel their beliefs have had some negative impact on our world

My feelings are not required that's an empirical fact.

makes you feel good then great. I just fail to see the big difference in the anti-theists and any other neo-nazi type hate group.

Makes us feel good? Hate group?

If that's all you gather from these situations then pay closer attention. This isn't about us atheists trying to win an internet fight or feel good. Maybe for some but that doesn't negate the issue! It's recognizing something that is damaging in society and believing in the idea the pen is mightier than the sword. Through debate and discussion change might be brought about. Happens all the time in other avenues of life. Or maybe it won't in most cases but later they might recall arguments and god-forbid question their beliefs accordingly. What feels good to me is the idea that people are free to collaborate ideas and have a discussion. Is this so wrong? It's fair game for the religious to spread the 'good word' but not the anti-theist to have a say? For them to do so it's analogous to a hate group?

reply to post by StalkerSolent


great post.

"
It does correspond to God, (we can get to those questions in a minute, because as you astutely pointed out, they do apply) but I was curious about your personal beliefs about love. You said you don't think there is an obligation to love everyone. We agree on this. Do you think you have an obligation to love anyone? Personally, I guess you could make a case I'm obligated to love my parents/family. Maybe. Otherwise, I feel love is a choice I should be able to make because I want to, not because I'm obligated, not because someone has "earned" it. (When I say someone has earned my love, what I mean is that I choose to love them, perhaps because of what they have done, but NOT because I am obligated to.) But maybe you differ?"

God has unconditional love, humans don't.

reply to post by tsingtao

God has unconditional love

Is God the embodiment of love?

If so, then Heaven is a place of love.

Is Hitler going to Heaven?

I assume you believe he is going to Hell.

Hell is an eternal place separate from Heaven.

Therefore eternally distant from love.

Hitler is not going to be loved eternally.

Thus God's love is conditional.

Hey I would agree with not loving Hitler (tho I wouldn't condemn anyone to eternal torture!). Still you need to recognize the break in logic here about 'unconditional love'. Clearly when there are prerequisites to being in god's good grace and entering eternal life in a loving paradise there are conditions to be met….

The travesty here is that it's not just the Hitler types that are *allegedly* going but good people too. People you said yourself you would happily transport by train.

Ghost147

tsingtao

randyvs
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

When anyone says " There is no God. " or " God does not exist. " And actually
believes what they are saying, as if they know it to be true. They have not only
demonstrated a total disregard for how much they do not know. But have also failed
miserably to understand that the amount of what they don't know could be infinite.
So atheism is fine. Until the atheist opens his mouth or begins to write.

i wish i knew everything like they do.

i'm just a stupid christian, i guess.

Just like you know god exists?

yeah, it's kind of personal thing, tho.

my God is not a nanny or commie, He does not use a broad brush. all are individual, no collective.

up to you and Him to figure it out. i won't get any points trying to or even converting you.

you are a big boy/girl, you know how it works.

no idea if i will make the cut to heaven, no one does.

reply to post by ColeYounger


As an agnostic I find atheists slightly more annoying than religious people.

The idea that they 'know' of the non existence of something based on empirical evidence is more of a logical fallacy then believing in something for which empirical evidence doesnt exist.

Both positions are fallacious, but at least the religious believer has a defense they can say 'I know' because of internal experience - something that is impossible to empirically disprove.

However atheists try to justify the non existence of God using empirical methods, a total logical fallacy.

Science does not deal in truth, it deals in agreements.

If I say 'I am sitting on a chair.' If you see me sitting on a chair, you can agree or disagree - disagreeing doesnt make it false, nor does agreeing make it true. However if everyone makes that observation and all agree, then we say it is empirically proven. Of course the only thing that is really proven is that everyone agrees.

There are three kinds of truth, possibly four if you believe Kant (who btw also said there were three, but defined his differently than I shall below);

I divide them as follows;

Definitive truth: All bachelors are unmarried. (This is true due the definitions).

Relative truth: 1+1=2, All giants are tall, 5 is less than 6 (Usually applicable to math and geometry, the second statement is also a definitive truth, but it is relational because giant and tall are both comparisons to men of average height).

Empirical truth: There's a table in this room. (You can only test the truth of this by making an observation yourself, which you compare to the statement).

Empirical truth is not truth at all, it is comparisons of observations by different people and is sealed by agreement. It is the sum of our experience and observation that is not contradicted.

Trying to prove something empirically is impossible, so trying to base a belief on what is purely an agreement is fallacious.

Internal experiences are beyond our current ability to measure empirically, so any claims of belief based on internal experience are beyond empirical judgement.

As an agnostic I might say; I see no evidence of your God, therefore I have desire to alter my behavior to comply with something for which no empirical evidence exists. However it would be a large and fallacious step to deny his existence from your point of view.

Pinke
reply to post by Bone75

 

Bone75
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

I couldn't agree with you more. Today's atheists are the most disrespectful people on the planet. They're on the same level as racists in my opinion.

You're making the same mistake that the 'atheists' you're talking about often make ...

There are a legion more quiet, dignified atheists than there are out spoken anti-theists. In a way I'm pretty sure you know this, and might say 'I'm not referring to X or Y type of person', but you should qualify it. Like I don't like holier than thou Christians. Most Christians don't bother me.

tsingtao
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

agnostic atheist? seriously?

wtf is that? sounds silly.

you believe or don't or are too chicken# to make a decision.

It's actually one of the basic concepts behind New Atheism for the most part.

It's generally accepted on an academic level that even dedicated anti-theists are agnostic, and in most conversations it goes without saying as metaphysics 101. It's a straw man when someone walks in and says 'well I'm agnostic, and you're all arrogant' because they're not having the same conversation as everyone else in the room usually. It would get tiresome to start every conversation with 'well I'm not 100% sure but...'

Dawkins and other prominent Atheists hold this position, and I can see why in a non-academic setting someone would feel the need to point it out.

Side note: I'd suggest OP that there are wide and varied reasons for distrusting and hating religion, but there are some pretty good Atheists on ATS to have conversations with if you look in the right places. Biggest issue is often people respond to the most offensive person in each thread instead of the most curious or thoughtful.

edit on 6-1-2014 by Pinke because: Side Note

maybe in an academic setting? but what's it say for here at ATS?

they are fake or what? does it count what they say?
what does academics have to do with it, anyway? why would it be different for the common chump?

naw, there are believers, agnostics and non-believers. most against christianity.
rarely against norse or roman or greek or even sumarians, egyptian, or any other believers.
(add whatever gods in here) and that's only in a small part of the whole world and time.

reply to post by tsingtao

God gives you what you need, not what you want.

He is not santa.

lolwut. Amputees don't need it healed?

Sorry I have a hard time following your posts and your logic. They seem more like rants.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by TruthLover557

 

The fact that true Christians don't believe that and do not say or mean that is relevant. Why does that not matter?

I'd say 50% of discussion I engage in with Christians ends up with talk about "true Christians" and "true Christianity". I would need your faith to believe in your assessment on what a 'true Christian' is. I don't. You realize those Christians you'd be excluding from 'true Christian' are also talking about 'true Christians' and excluding you right?

To non-religious people (or people from other religions for that matter) if you say you're a Christian and you read from the same material as other Christians then you're a Christian to us. You're all flying under the same banner. It's not our responsibility to determine who the 'true' ones are. Your community needs to work that out. I believe there is something like 30,000 Christian denominations so you have lots of work cut out for you.

and?
are you not judging?
yeah, 30k and 1 of you guys.

it's not for them or you to figure out who is what.
like i said, no one cares what you believe, just stop denigrating, condescending and insulting others beliefs.

oh, not at you specifically.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by tsingtao

 

i'd send them to fire island.

put their butt on the train myself. lololololol!!

I find it rather reprehensible it's a laughing matter. You essentially just became Hitler 'hypothetically'. Even worse actually since it's eternal torture. But whatever. Have your laughs. Let the other Christians star your post and pretend this is a position of higher morality.

so you believe in hell? really?

why?

you know i can't judge anyone. do i look like st. peter to you?

btw, don't call me hitler, even "hypothetically".

reply to post by tsingtao


Anti theist..Iam one too
I believe in God but despise Religion for the same reasons Lucid has stated, Religion has brainwashed you and others to fall for someone elses version of the truth and that truth is so far beyond what God will be I and other anti theists will try and show others that Religion is a tool to make money for Preists, look in the 2nd book of the Bible you have to give money to priests to get into heaven...its a scam.
Figure it out yourself and stop being a sheep/slave heck the priests even have you calling God Lord..wonder why? for you to accept human lords much easier.

reply to post by tsingtao

so you believe in hell? really?

I do not.

btw, don't call me hitler, even "hypothetically".

Then don't act like one 'hypothetically'.