It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
MysterX
I consider myself agnostic...does that count?
AfterInfinity
reply to post by Blue Shift
One of the biggest problems I have. What constitutes an entity as a god? By what scientific basis do we identity a being as being a deity? What attributes or parameters have we determined as being necessary to isolate and identify in order to factually state that an object or creature is a divine authority?
The answer: none. Science has played no part in any process we have currently established for the purposes described above. Which means that we can exercise no rational certainty when proclaiming the positive identification of a deity.
Rational certainty is not the same thing as scientific certainty.
Science is not the foundation of reason; on the contrary, science rests on reason.
AfterInfinity
reply to post by StalkerSolent
Rational certainty is not the same thing as scientific certainty.
It actually is. "Rational" is, by definition, reliant upon logic and reason, the most critical elements in any investigation that can be considered even remotely scientific. You're more than welcome to demonstrate irrational science, if you can.
rational certainty doesn't require scientific certainty.
AfterInfinity
reply to post by Rex282
There's a number of implications I've drawn from your analogy. I'll start with the most important one: either this "creator god" planted in your mind an understanding of the relationship between it and our world, or you just naturally developed that understanding on your own. What exactly gives you the capability or privilege to possess that understanding, that someone such as myself or another atheist or agnostic does not have?
Lucid Lunacy
Is this so wrong? It's fair game for the religious to spread the 'good word' but not the anti-theist to have a say? For them to do so it's analogous to a hate group?
I'd say 50% of discussion I engage in with Christians ends up with talk about "true Christians" and "true Christianity". I would need your faith to believe in your assessment on what a 'true Christian' is. I don't. You realize those Christians you'd be excluding from 'true Christian' are also talking about 'true Christians' and excluding you right?
To non-religious people (or people from other religions for that matter) if you say you're a Christian and you read from the same material as other Christians then you're a Christian to us. You're all flying under the same banner. It's not our responsibility to determine who the 'true' ones are. Your community needs to work that out. I believe there is something like 30,000 Christian denominations so you have lots of work cut out for you.
AfterInfinity
reply to post by StalkerSolent
rational certainty doesn't require scientific certainty.
Considering they rely on the same principles of investigation and analysis, I don't quite grasp the difference.
TruthLover557
Sure, atheists have a right to their opinions, but I think their arguments are pointless when it is apparent they have no knowledge of what the Bible says. You can't separate Christianity from the Bible. So, why pretend like Christians stand to be judged independently of the Bible? It is not my responsibility to read the Bible for those who haven't read it, or the non-religious, or the people of other faiths, so that they can judge its message for themselves or tell me what it says.
And interestingly all pools show that atheist actually know more about religion and bible.
To everyone's surprise, it seems that those who are reading bible either are not understanding it and as well meaning behind it.
Lucid Lunacy
Just wanted to vouch to this! I have been a member since 2003 (new account in 04) and the numbers are staggering. Lets keep perspective here folks. If you want to make a case for your side don't spew obvious nonsense. Bones if you haven't seen it I don't know what to say. It's there plenty. Furthermore the idea we are unworthy of eternal reward because there is something eternally wrong with us is in my eyes the most disrespectful belief one could have for another person (since you mentioned the blow job sticker as immensely disrespectful). And yes... I know we can repent *rolls eyes*.