Calling all atheists

ColeYounger
A comment left by an atheist prompted me to create this thread. Usually, I wouldn't care and would just move on, but the comment angered me just a tad. It 'cut me to the quick', as it were.

The comment was left on a thread that was created by a Christian, and a follower of Jesus. It was a fairly lengthy thread and I read a good deal of it. The Original Poster was, imo, intelligent, logical and rational. A thinker.

Of course, within an hour's time, one of the local atheists posted the obligatory comment about how anyone who believes in "an invisible man in the sky" is an unscientific moron. The comment was just childish, and poorly worded to boot. Someone who can barely string a sentence together was chastising someone who had an obviously well-developed faculty for thinking.

Looking around the "religious" forums, I noticed about a half-dozen of these "atheist attacks" on "unscientific" Christians. Some atheists get really offended when someone believes in God, like it’s an affront to their dignity.

I’d like to put forth the following propositions to our resident atheists:

First and foremost…
Rejecting anything and everything that you consider theological, religious, or spiritual
doesn’t automatically make you “scientific-minded”. On the contrary, it makes you close-minded. It actually makes you unscientific. Real scientists seek the truth, and don’t reject something out of hand because it isn’t plainly visible or proven. A real scientist could look at a tree and at least entertain the idea that there could be a designer, an intelligence, a creator behind it.

Second….
There are people much smarter than you who believe in God. There are physicists, mathematicians and biologists with stellar I.Q.s who believe in a creator. Are they being scientific and unscientific at the same time? There are some deep thinkers out there who have pushed their very sanity to its limits, grappling with concepts that are beyond the realm of human understanding. They have stared into the abyss, and many have come away concluding there must be a God. How can these unscientific simpletons match intellects with the likes of Penn & Teller, the Las Vegas magicians who have avowed there’s no God?

Finally…
Feel free to believe that “spiritual” = “unscientific”. Go ahead and believe that when you die, it’s The End, and you’re worm food. Go ahead and believe, essentially, in nothing beyond our limited consciousness and awareness.
In your defense, it’s human nature to doubt. Even Mother Teresa had a ‘dark night of the soul’ where her faith was weakened. Many saints have experienced ‘spiritual dryness.’ The Apostle Thomas, the doubter, was the one who got to touch the wounds of Christ.

I’ll leave you with a quote from “The Count of Monte Cristo”

Edmond Dantes: I don't believe in God.
Abbe Faria (the priest): It doesn't matter. He believes in you.

nice post! s&f.

i hear those lines everywhere, "man in the sky", "science haters" etc.

ticks me off too. it's just so ignorant.
bible quotes taken out of context, OT quotes that have nothing to do with Jesus or christianity. blame God for starvation with the same pics that have been around for years...etc.
i like the ones about why doesn't God grow back legs or arms. lol!

it's like they are trolling or just bigoted and nasty people who only believe in themselves.

also, the people they follow are out to make money, prey on their feeble minds.
Jesus never made a cent. He paid!

"CHURCH AND STATE! OMG!!!!" that's another good one.

anyway, i will read this whole thread before posting again.

MysterX
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

I consider myself agnostic...does that count?

BTW...don't think for a moment that intelligence, even genuis level smarts makes a person any less gullible than the next..it doesn't.

or wrong or bigoted or anything else.
funny thing, it goes both ways, if you were trying to go there.

boymonkey74
reply to post by TruthLover557

 

I had an argument with a person at work once who told me I would goto hell because I was not a Christian even though Iam a decent caring dude, Christians who say this to others use it as a weapon and a Iam better than you tool.
I get offended because it isn't their job to condemn anyone it is an insult and how dare anyone condemn others to an eternity of brimstone and fire..it just isn't on.
Also we all know when they say this to us they are just masking their hatred of you with a religious excuse and they sometimes get away with it.
It just isn't cricket my dear chap.

What if Christians aren't masking a hatred? Is that impossible? True Christians know that the word says it is God who condemns. They do not go around telling people they are going to hell because they are decent and caring. It's so unfortunate that individuals misconstruing the word are seen as representatives of its message.

LucidLunacy,

Someone that says that is essentially saying you're a disgrace of a person and you deserve to burn. The fact atheists don't believe it is irrelevant, it's the fact atheists know the religious person does.

The fact that true Christians don't believe that and do not say or mean that is relevant. Why does that not matter?

canucks555
Christian, and a follower of Jesus.

That's redundant

the comment angered me just a tad

That's ok, religious people get angered easily, more easily than most actually. When lots of religious folks get angry it seems like lots of people die. Shame, that is, and maybe the reason that many people don't subscribe to religion in the first place.

Someone who can barely string a sentence together was chastising someone who had an obviously well-developed faculty for thinking.

There are some people that cannot write. Yet they are wiser than this forum combined. Stringing words together has nothing to do with whether or not they have a right to chastise others.

Get off your high horse. (just my opinion)

Honestly it sounds to me as though you're angry that people don't believe in your God.

edit on 4-1-2014 by canucks555 because: (no reason given)

so u chastise the chastisers?

who cares what YOU believe? or anyone else? why care what we believe?

i don't, that's up to you.
actually christians could care less. (ya, we got ours, yawn)

you want to talk or get your head cut off? only one religion does that. (guess)

no talk, no problem, good luck and God bless.

your opinion is what the OP is talking about.

xDeadcowx
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

First and foremost…
Rejecting anything and everything that you consider theological, religious, or spiritual
doesn’t automatically make you “scientific-minded”. On the contrary, it makes you close-minded. It actually makes you unscientific. Real scientists seek the truth, and don’t reject something out of hand because it isn’t plainly visible or proven. A real scientist could look at a tree and at least entertain the idea that there could be a designer, an intelligence, a creator behind it.

How do you feel about Zeus, Odin, Ra, Cthulhu or Vishnu? Have you ever brushed any of those gods off as imaginary, or nonexistent? If one were to place their faith in one single god, out of the thousands of other gods that are possible, wouldn't that person also be close minded and unscientific? If this is the case, then it only stands to reason that the true open minded person would either reject all gods, or accept all gods as being possible equally.

Second….
There are people much smarter than you who believe in God. There are physicists, mathematicians and biologists with stellar I.Q.s who believe in a creator. Are they being scientific and unscientific at the same time? There are some deep thinkers out there who have pushed their very sanity to its limits, grappling with concepts that are beyond the realm of human understanding. They have stared into the abyss, and many have come away concluding there must be a God. How can these unscientific simpletons match intellects with the likes of Penn & Teller, the Las Vegas magicians who have avowed there’s no God?

Appeal to Authority
The intelligence level of those that agree with you is completely irrelevant. There are many smart, and dumb people on both sides of the debate. What is relevant is evidence, which is something the religious side of the debate is seriously lacking.

Finally…
Feel free to believe that “spiritual” = “unscientific”. Go ahead and believe that when you die, it’s The End, and you’re worm food. Go ahead and believe, essentially, in nothing beyond our limited consciousness and awareness.
In your defense, it’s human nature to doubt. Even Mother Teresa had a ‘dark night of the soul’ where her faith was weakened. Many saints have experienced ‘spiritual dryness.’ The Apostle Thomas, the doubter, was the one who got to touch the wounds of Christ.

Thank you, i will continue to look at the world using logic and reason. I extend the same permission to you, feel free to believe that there is an omnipotent being looking down on you, saving a place for you after you die. While you are living your life preparing for the after life, i will be living my life like its the only one i get. What makes you happy does not make everyone happy and the same applies to me. We may see the world differently, but as long as we do not interfere with each other's lives, i see no problem with that.

DC

edit on 1/4/2014 by xDeadcowx because: typo

another one. geeze.
other gods? have you proved them?

who believes them now?
you?

then there is the pasta monster atheist's seem to believe in.

we all only get "one life," you want to spend it in the ground.
oh yeah, giving back to mother earth.

like we all don't do that.

so what kind of spirit do you have? any?

none? is there anything that makes you special? just a close circle of friends?
what about people that doesn't have that?

what's with you people, don't you care for your fellow man?
oh wait, let me guess, you give your time to a soup kitchen and adopt street children.

sorry OP.

i will just read.

AliceBleachWhite

ColeYounger

Edmond Dantes: I don't believe in God.
Abbe Faria (the priest): It doesn't matter. He believes in you.

Natural Selection doesn't require anyone to believe in it either.

When next confronted with a life or death situation, whether yourself or someone you care about, choose between calling Ambulance, or Praying.
See which one works better.

lol, i pray the ambulance gets here on time.

so far it's been 50/50.

reply to post by ColeYounger


dude, they will attack your spelling next!

randyvs
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

When anyone says " There is no God. " or " God does not exist. " And actually
believes what they are saying, as if they know it to be true. They have not only
demonstrated a total disregard for how much they do not know. But have also failed
miserably to understand that the amount of what they don't know could be infinite.
So atheism is fine. Until the atheist opens his mouth or begins to write.

i wish i knew everything like they do.

i'm just a stupid christian, i guess.

tsingtao

randyvs
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

When anyone says " There is no God. " or " God does not exist. " And actually
believes what they are saying, as if they know it to be true. They have not only
demonstrated a total disregard for how much they do not know. But have also failed
miserably to understand that the amount of what they don't know could be infinite.
So atheism is fine. Until the atheist opens his mouth or begins to write.

i wish i knew everything like they do.

i'm just a stupid christian, i guess.

Just like you know god exists?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


agnostic atheist? seriously?

wtf is that? sounds silly.

you believe or don't or are too chicken# to make a decision.

reply to post by Ghost147



All of mankind are born into"their" religion".The first stage of the physical realm "life"
------------
This is the physical universe you and I and everyone else lives in.This is not metaphor.
------------
….is self awareness of being "My God".Babys exist only for themselves.THEY are "their" God... "My God"
------------
Pyschologist and some of the religious call this "the ego" or the id.It is the essence of who and what you are as a human.You the "you ego" being.A baby is only self aware of itself.They are the sole center of "their life"..the master of their reality because that is their perception of "their" reality.That is the condition of their "Godhood".It grows into many different forms however the core doesn't change.That is the persons religion.

-------
That(self Godhood) is at the core of all religion
--------
This Godhood that "everyone" perceives since they were born is the core of their perceptions..that is their belief…their religion.None of this is a metaphor.
----------
.....in the form of when it is accepted in belief of "institutional" religion to rejection of it.It is all forms of the same thing.It is human nature...unavoidable...it is ALL blindness in different forms of the same thing
---------
A persons religion can grow into the form of an institutionalized religion or personal religion with doctrines of belief.That religion can have a "higher power God" or no God at all ....it is still "belief" of a "faith"(something that can't be proved).It is the perception of theirs of "their" reality in the physical realm.In other words agnostics and atheist(two very indefinable words I am just using as a convience) are religious also whether they know or believe it or not.Belief/faith /religion is the same thing in another form in EVERY human.It is the nature of man.None of this is a metaphor.
-----------

We all have been indoctrinated in one way or another by a "multitude of sources" causes completely out of our control.The biggest delusion of all is that man has a will free of cause.The fact is man can only make choices with their will however none of them are free of an original cause that is not their own.This is a concept impossible to rectify with the mind.It will automatically reject it and justify it's "free will".
------------
This was just a connecting statement which has zero metaphors.
--------------
This is the "core belief" of a mans religion that is patently untrue and can't be overcome BY the will because it can't be believed..only known.
------------
Religion is "belief" the faith in something that can't be proved.Belief is not "knowing.When something is believed it can't be known it is believed by faith.This is not a metaphor.
--------------
Mankind does NOT have a will free of cause simply because they haven't been born yet.
------------------
A will free of cause is a free will.None of the causes of our lives are free of causation starting from the beginning... the central cause of all things.This is not a metaphor.
--------------
The born I am talking about here IS a metaphor(the very first one in this post that I explained WAS a metaphor in the first post.).It is a metaphor because it can't be explained in literal language.It is a "action/ experience" that is not of this realm.It is in effect an artist language.Using what we CAN perceive to " point" to things not in our perception yet.
-----------------
Conception is happening "to them" not "by " them.Just as no one "caused " their own conception they are not causing "this " conception either.When we were being conceived in the womb of our mother we were not the cause of ANYTHING.....Life(spirit) was...it was the "natural stage of growth...and the same process(stages of growth) are happening now...and mankind is COMPLETELY unaware what they are..it is impossible .We can't "observe" our growth and cause it no matter what anyone believes.
--------
a further continuance of the metaphor.
-----------
I am not here to argue and won't be.If you want to know what I mean I'm more than happy to explain however I won't be debating any of it.

reply to post by Bone75

Bone75
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

I couldn't agree with you more. Today's atheists are the most disrespectful people on the planet. They're on the same level as racists in my opinion.

You're making the same mistake that the 'atheists' you're talking about often make ...

There are a legion more quiet, dignified atheists than there are out spoken anti-theists. In a way I'm pretty sure you know this, and might say 'I'm not referring to X or Y type of person', but you should qualify it. Like I don't like holier than thou Christians. Most Christians don't bother me.

tsingtao
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

agnostic atheist? seriously?

wtf is that? sounds silly.

you believe or don't or are too chicken# to make a decision.

It's actually one of the basic concepts behind New Atheism for the most part.

It's generally accepted on an academic level that even dedicated anti-theists are agnostic, and in most conversations it goes without saying as metaphysics 101. It's a straw man when someone walks in and says 'well I'm agnostic, and you're all arrogant' because they're not having the same conversation as everyone else in the room usually. It would get tiresome to start every conversation with 'well I'm not 100% sure but...'

Dawkins and other prominent Atheists hold this position, and I can see why in a non-academic setting someone would feel the need to point it out.

Side note: I'd suggest OP that there are wide and varied reasons for distrusting and hating religion, but there are some pretty good Atheists on ATS to have conversations with if you look in the right places. Biggest issue is often people respond to the most offensive person in each thread instead of the most curious or thoughtful.

canucks555
I don't know what gave you that idea.

It is impossible not to notice the disdain in your thread towards atheists. The wording used, the way you've written it, the Calling out all Atheists title..

Of course, within an hour's time, one of the local atheists posted the obligatory comment

"atheist attacks"

In your defense, it’s human nature to doubt.



You're pissed that people don't agree with your mind set. Admit it.

ya'll are here, aintcha?

i'm still on the first page.

to defend, what? NOTHING or just stir the anti-christian pot?

the A's have nothing to bring to the table except insults and derogatory remarks.

reply to post by tsingtao

i like the ones about why doesn't God grow back legs or arms. lol!

I believe you're referring to why doesn't god heal amputees.

It's a very legitimate rebuttal. Maybe not for you. Plenty of religious people however make claims of god directly healing physical ailments through the power of prayer. Ergo why do we then never see the prayers of amputee victims answered.

Many devout religious people pray and never receive answer yet we are to believe others do? Tim's mom's cancer was cured because god answered her prayer? The whole notion that god answers these prayers calls into the benevolence. God has the omniscience to be aware of them, the omnipotence and omnipresence to act on them all, yet answers specific trivial ones meanwhile countless people die while praying. Weird convoluted explanations have to be invented on behalf of the faithful to rationalize this discrepancy. Meanwhile the obvious explanation is staring them in the face. No creator god is intervening in creation because of prayers.

tothetenthpower
reply to post by Bone75

 

I'm gonna have to call BS on that one. I've been a member here for 2 years now and can probably count on one hand how many times I've heard a fundamentalist tell someone they were going to burn in hell.

No.

This is categorically untrue. There are literally HUNDREDS of comments by religious folk here on ATS claiming that atheists, among a variety of others are going to hell in a hand basket because of their non belief, their life style choices and a whole variety of other things.

~Tenth

edit on 1/4/2014 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

bummer, i say you will go to epcot center, same thing, lol!

are you scared? why does it bother you, that when you sin, you will go to hell?

do you secretly believe?

reply to post by TruthLover557

The fact that true Christians don't believe that and do not say or mean that is relevant. Why does that not matter?

I'd say 50% of discussion I engage in with Christians ends up with talk about "true Christians" and "true Christianity". I would need your faith to believe in your assessment on what a 'true Christian' is. I don't. You realize those Christians you'd be excluding from 'true Christian' are also talking about 'true Christians' and excluding you right?

To non-religious people (or people from other religions for that matter) if you say you're a Christian and you read from the same material as other Christians then you're a Christian to us. You're all flying under the same banner. It's not our responsibility to determine who the 'true' ones are. Your community needs to work that out. I believe there is something like 30,000 Christian denominations so you have lots of work cut out for you.

TruthLover557
Why are atheists offended by the notion or outright claim that they are going to hell?

LOL, THAT IS FUNNY, isn't it?

i'd send them to fire island.

put their butt on the train myself. lololololol!!

i'm offended my body will rot in the ground! gee, ya think it wouldn't?

according to them, i have no soul. i wonder if they are denial and can prove they have no soul?

reply to post by ColeYounger


People confuse atheist with anti-theist , most of the "militant" atheists you run across are actually just anti-theists. And there is a huge difference, its the same thing as being a member of the KKK and claiming that you are just patriotic.
Anti-theists are the ones that get pissed if you believe in god, just like any neo-nazi would get mad if he found out you were not white.