Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy


EVERYONE will be in eternity.

Agreed, there are 2 different places people will be. With Him or without Him for all eternity.

Agreed, there are 2 different places people will be. With Him or without Him for all eternity

There's only one place...and ALL will be with Him. There is no special place for you and your kind. That's awfully egocentric.....

God doesn't work in the way you'd like people to believe and the way you seem to believe He does. None of us are any better than any others in the eyes of God. It is man that decided he is better than other men. Your thing is not a God thing...it's an arrogant man thing.....

[edit on 17-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Originally posted by Seapeople
I agree. Common sense says that.

Someday I swear people will start thinking for themselves on this planet.

I'm still wanting for that day. I feel kind of faint right now. I think I'm going to take a nap.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Saint4God.....I said it before and I'll say it again:

Feel free to repeat yourself, just don't expect me to.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You lack a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience, which is part of the definition of a sociopath or psychopath.....remember when I compared you to Ted Bundy and you didn't understand?

Was it that I didn't understand or that I wanted you to come out and say that which you were eluding to? I enjoy candidness much more than subtle hints.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You made a nice list of how I supposedly have conducted myself with my arguments with you...bravo...well done....but you are incorrect again. Here's some examples:

You did not answer my question...you said the answer is in your BOOK!

Huzzah! You listened to a word I said. Thank you. There's hope for progress yet.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
and you said there is "right conduct" for a man......what does that mean and what IS the right conduct? You see.....no answer....just dodging the question.

As I'd quoted, love and respect. Loving his wife as he loves himself. Why do you ask a question, then immediately say "You see.....no answer....just dodging the question"? Are you hoping I don't have an answer? Or are you attempting to convince yourself you're right?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
So again...according to YOUR book, what happens to a man that doesn't follow that proper conduct??

He must deal with his Maker spiritually, he should be dealt with by the law legally.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I asked how he is penalized...and you simply say "He is sinning" and penalties are described in YOUR book....again you give no answer except to say that the answer is in YOUR book. Then....you attempt to distract from the question altogether by talking about the fact that I read the Bible. This is called DODGING!

I cannot say what punishment God decides to inflict upon this person...for you see...I am not God. WHOA! SHOCKER! HOLD ON TO YOUR SEAT! I know this comes as a great disappointment, and I apologize for that. I can say what God's final plan is for those who go against Him however.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I ask the same question and you tell me you are sure I already know (instead of answering the question). THEN, you quote scripture which tells me what? That the guy is going to die for beating and abusing his wife? When is he going to die?

The penalty is death, whereas those who believe in God, through His son will receive eternal life. John 3:16 among others.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You see, I am looking for answers from YOU...not YOUR book....but you obviously can't think for yourself....and honestly, once again, you did not answer the question...you dodged it!!

I appreciate the compliment that I have such great dexterity and agility, but I don't see it.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I'm serious Saint4...instead of dodging....I'd love to hear what you have to say. Thanks!!

I'm seriously doubting this as you haven't really given serious consideration to anything I've said this far. You seem to want a war, but I refuse to fight.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I tell you I'd really like to hear what YOU have to say and you reply with "I'll be as candid as possible."....but YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.....AGAIN!!

Actually I did. See step-wise process I've outlined in my previous post.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Again...no answer just a flip comment "Eternal punishment is not enough...blah blah blah".....NO Saint4 eternal damnation is a ridiculous answer.

I was curious to see if you can comprehend what eternal damnation means. It is evident to me that you do not. I wonder then if you've ever suffered a temporary damnation, because anyone who has can account for the personal tragedy involved in that kind of seemingly endless pain and suffering. The abused spouse, be it man or woman, would know a little taste of hell I'm sure and would be able to give a good perspective on what it is like.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I asked what is his punishment while he is alive....and you repeatedly dodge the question.

As I've said he has the same legal obligations as we all do when we violate the law.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You said this has happened before in your family.....

I not only say it. It has happened with more than three direct relatives.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
No offense, but I'm starting to think that you are an abusive male and that's why you refuse to answer the question....

Hehe. No. Keep taking shots in the dark, you're bound to hit something eventually.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
because then you would be saying what should happen to you. It appears that the abuse that has occurred in your family has perhaps come from you.....and you are hiding in your BOOK!!

Miss #2. Keep shooting...

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
This is why I said you have no sense of moral responsibility or social conscience and I compared you to Ted Bundy......

I do not subject myself to YOUR moral responsibility nor what society thinks is the best way to feed our appetites & vices. I subject myself to God who wants me to love Him, love others and treat all with tenderness and kindness....for that is greater than any laws or rules man has come up with.

[edit on 19-9-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by toolman
As i said, leviticus is for the priest class. quoting Text from that book is nonsense....

One law at a time, let's stay focused on this topic first. Ask that other one on a new thread and we can go into details there. Have you ever thought about why the Levitican Law was as it were? Let us try a more practical experiment then to explore the benefits and detriments of a couple waiting to live together versus them not waiting. I can vouch for temptation as I'm sure just about anyone can. What if you sleep with the person before you're married. Let us talk about the possible consequences. You start, I'll add to them if there's anything that may be left out.

Originally posted by toolman
There are 18 years missing from the life of Christ, from 12 to 30. If you have not noticed this then what else are you missing from the Bible..?

On the contrary, it is accounted for:

"Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." - Luke 2:41-52

These years are not missing. They are described here. Please do not accuse me from missing detail until I have missed a detail. I'm sure there are some, as I am human, but this is not one of them.

Originally posted by toolman
And what is so disturbing that those years were eliminated..

They were not eliminated.

Originally posted by toolman
we are left with ramblings from Paul, yet the Life of Christ, which is far more of importance was left out....whatever christ did during those years certainly scared someone.

No doubt a conspiracy . From whom did he learn to raise the dead and raise from the dead himself?

Originally posted by toolman
It surprises me how many people never figure out the Bible did not exist during the life of Christ, is fact did not exist until hundreds of years later.

Peter says otherwise. Surely you haven't overlooked that. If you have, what else have you overlooked?

Originally posted by toolman
It was put together by Roman emperors, the ruling religious leaders, and powerfull members of Rome in an effort to save the splintering Roman Empire. It didnt work. But it did leave the world the Bible, which survived and was translated and edited over and over again until we have the present day jigsaw puzzle.

Please read the history of the New International Version.

[edit on 19-9-2006 by saint4God]

I enjoy candidness much more than subtle hints.

Really? You must enjoy it in others then and not yourself...because you are far from candid.

But....I have grown weary of you and no longer wish to debate you any further. We're just going around in circles. You are narrow-minded and can't answer simple questions and say I lack candidness! LMAO!! I am quite candid about how I feel while you don't answer questions and ocassionally quote scripture that doesn't answer anything...maybe it does in your mind, but not in reality.

I have figured you out and no longer wish to correspond with you! Please find someone else to play with.....I give up on trying to get you to answer simple questions without having your nose in your BOOK....which you hide inside of! That is something I suggest you talk to a professional about....as well as other things...

Bye bye!!


[edit on 19-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Really? You must enjoy it in others then and not yourself...because you are far from candid.

After I answer directly, I will re-position to try a different approach. Paradigm questions like "Do you think that..." and "how would you feel if..." because for some, having the answer is not good enough. Some (myself included depending on circumstances) need to see why and how and what if. It's very effective for relaying a complete picture.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
But....I have grown weary of you and no longer wish to debate you any further. We're just going around in circles. You are narrow-minded

Not narrow-minded, just prefer to make the right choices if I can help it. Did you think I always thought the way I do? Or, through experiences have I come to conclusions that make both Biblical and reasoning sense? I know YOUR answer to these questions, they're more for everyone else.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
and say I lack candidness!

Correct, first you compared my behaviour to Ted Bundy's, but the second time around you've musted the bravery to say I was like Ted Bundy. The difference may seem subtle but there is a difference indeed.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
LMAO!! I am quite candid about how I feel while you don't answer questions and ocassionally quote scripture that doesn't answer anything...maybe it does in your mind, but not in reality.

The scripture answers it more directly than I ever possibly could. Just because you skip it and leave it unaddressed does not mean it does not answer the question. With all do respect Excitable_Boy, an appropriate choice for a surname, I live in reality just as much as you do (if not more due to the people in my life who have been personally affected by the topic of abuse but it's pointless to compare those notes)

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I have figured you out and no longer wish to correspond with you!

Suit yourself.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Please find someone else to play with.....I give up on trying to get you to answer simple questions without having your nose in your BOOK....

I appreciate the compliment that I'm intelligent, well read and comprehend books.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
which you hide inside of!

Oh yes, I must be sitting at home now bouncing between the keyboard and the Bible, eh? How I wish.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
That is something I suggest you talk to a professional about....as well as other things...

I do a lot of communicating to many people on the topic, you may be surprised.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Bye bye!!

God bless.

Now, would anyone care to discuss the actual topic of the thread?

[edit on 19-9-2006 by saint4God]

When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom.

This is modern(last 20 +- years) mistranslation. In the translations of 35+- years ago
it read " in his 12th year" which taken in context of Jewish custom has a complete different connotation.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
This is modern(last 20 +- years) mistranslation. In the translations of 35+- years ago
it read " in his 12th year" which taken in context of Jewish custom has a complete different connotation.

It doesn't make a difference to these words:

"Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover...."

and

"Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."

Years were not omitted, deleted or left out.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by saint4God]

One law at a time, let's stay focused on this topic first. Ask that other one on a new thread and we can go into details there. Have you ever thought about why the Levitican Law was as it were?

(( yes, the Law is there for the priest class. this is beginner seminary teachings. It is NOT there for the common person, as i can guarentee everyones wife transgresses the levitican law, as does every husband, farmer, sportsman, etc. So stop using straw man arguements. Levitican law is for priests)

"Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." - Luke 2:41-52

(( and this somehow is an account of Christs life from 12 - 30 years old? this is an account of a single event, when he was 12. nothing more))



quote: Originally posted by toolman
It surprises me how many people never figure out the Bible did not exist during the life of Christ, is fact did not exist until hundreds of years later.
Peter says otherwise. Surely you haven't overlooked that. If you have, what else have you overlooked?

(( the bible did not exist until the year 326 in raw form, and in present form until the middle ages. This is historical FACT ))
quote: Originally posted by toolman
It was put together by Roman emperors, the ruling religious leaders, and powerfull members of Rome in an effort to save the splintering Roman Empire. It didnt work. But it did leave the world the Bible, which survived and was translated and edited over and over again until we have the present day jigsaw puzzle.



Please read the history of the New International Version.

(( the new international version...and what year was this created? there are dozens of versions of the bible in existance, all over the world, created at diffrent times.))

people need to deal with the fact tha tthe Bible is just a book. It is not HOLY, it is not sacred, it is a book.
What Christ taught is another matter; love your nieghbor, feed the hungry, house the homeless, care for the infirmed.
everything else is crap.

It doesn't make a difference to these words:

Actually it does. It is a difference of 12 years. 12years old ( the earliest age he could barMitzpha) and his 12th year IE: the 12th year after he joined the community as an adult (barMitzaphaed). As An Adult he could have and probably would have married
had children etc... while still following the wishes of Joseph and Mary as was custom.

Let me make sure my bold _javascript is working...

Regular

Bold

Regular

Bold

Good! That's working. I shall try again:

It doesn't make a difference to these words:

"Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover...."

and

"Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."

Nevetheless, words like "Every year" and "was" and "grew" were written in English previously, not sure what additional help the bold type is unless people are used to reading Cliffsnotes.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by saint4God]

"Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover...."

and

"Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."

Nevetheless, words like "Every year" and "was" and "grew" were written in English previously, not sure what additional help the bold type is unless people are used to reading Cliffsnotes.




(( SO, Christ's parents went to Jerusalem for the passover every year...exactly what does that have to do with Christ? NOTHING. It does not even mention his name in the sentence)))

There is nothing in your posts that referes to christ from the years of 12-30, becuase there is nothing in the bible that referes to those years.

it is tortured reasoning like yours that underscores the problems with the Bible. It is a serious of books assembled by people terrified of losing the Roman empire...which happened anyway.

I do have a question for you, How many different versions of the Bible are in existance today, worlwide?

Nor is there any reference to when the returned from egypt. They fled to egypt
when Jeshua was about 2yrs old, nothing further is mentioned until the temple incident
" in his 12th year". between 10 to 22 years unaccounted for. Also there is no indication
of when they commenced their practice of going to Jerusalem every year. It could as well have started with the above mentioned incident.

Originally posted by toolman
(( SO, Christ's parents went to Jerusalem for the passover every year...exactly what does that have to do with Christ? NOTHING. It does not even mention his name in the sentence)))

Keep reading, the second time around I quoted the temporal reference. He was with them.

Originally posted by toolman
There is nothing in your posts that referes to christ from the years of 12-30, becuase there is nothing in the bible that referes to those years.

It explains how he grew up. Sorry it's not interesting enough for you, but reading the diary of a carpenter's son growing up rarely is.

Originally posted by toolman
it is tortured reasoning like yours that underscores the problems with the Bible. It is a serious of books assembled by people terrified of losing the Roman empire...which happened anyway.

Mkay, and you call my reasoning tortured?

Originally posted by toolman
I do have a question for you, How many different versions of the Bible are in existance today, worlwide?

One. You can buy them in different languages/translations though. They say the same thing.

Back to the original post...

I live with my common-law husband, and we have two wonderful sons. I also am a Christian, and have read/studied the bible for some time. I'm sure men could read (and have) many things into the word of God, but I know it only matters what He thinks, not rules imposed by another's interpretation.

Nevertheless, I believe that we are married, not only because the government says we are (hence common-LAW), but because we have pledged ourselves to each other through promising to love each other and our children. If the worst thing I do in my life, is to love my husband and children unconditionally, without the pretense of a marriage license (would God issue licences?), then I figure I'm doing pretty good. I do not need to have a $20,000 piss-up to tell me what I already know...

When i see mis interpretation of Bible and text, asking how many versions of the bible exist is the best way to get to the root of the issue....these are major branches, with some branches containing more subsets. There are dozens of Bible versions in the world, some are in complete conflict with others....stating there is only one version of the Bible is flatly incorrect.

GREEK: Septuagint; Aquila; Theodotion; Symmachus; other versions.
VERSIONS FROM THE SEPTUAGINT: Vetus Itala or Old Latin; Egyptian or Coptic (Bohairic, Sahidic, Akhmimic, and Fayûmic, i.e. Middle Egyptian or Bashmuric); Ethiopic and Amharic (Falasha, Galla); Gothic; Georgian or Grusian; Syriac; Slavic (Old Slavonic, Russian, Ruthenian, Polish, Czech or Bohemian, Slovak, Serbian or Illyrian, Croation, Bosnian, Dalmatian); Arabic; Armenian.
VERSIONS FROM THE HEBREW: Chaldaic; Syriac (Peschitto); Arabic (Carshuni); Persian; Samaritan Pentateuch; Vulgate; other Latin versions.

HEBREW VERSIONS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
VERSIONS FROM MIXED SOURCES: Italian; Spanish; Basque; Portuguese; French; German; Dutch and Flemish; Scandinavian (Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic); Finnish (Estonian, Laplandish); Hungarian; Celtic (Irish, Scottish, Breton or Armoric, Welsh or Cymric).
MISCELLANEOUS: Aleutian; Aniwa; Aneitumese; Battak; Benga; Bengali; Chinese; Gipsy or Romany; Hindu; Hindustani; Japanese; Javanese; Mexican; Modern Greek.

ENGLISH VERSIONS ; over a dozen....new international, king james, etc, etc. etc.

So, can two people in love live together.....Yep, go for it. God said Love of the greatest treasure, so give freely.

Originally posted by toolman
There are dozens of Bible versions in the world, some are in complete conflict with others....stating there is only one version of the Bible is flatly incorrect.

In regards to the definition of version, if all you mean by version is language then I agree since you're using definition 1 here:

Main Entry: ver·sion
Pronunciation: 'v&r-zh&n, -sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Medieval Latin version-, versio act of turning, change, from Latin vertere to turn -- more at WORTH
1 : a translation from another language; especially : a translation of the Bible or a part of it

What I meant by version was this:

Main Entry: ver·sion
Pronunciation: 'v&r-zh&n, -sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Medieval Latin version-, versio act of turning, change, from Latin vertere to turn -- more at WORTH

2 a : an account or description from a particular point of view especially as contrasted with another account b : an adaptation of a literary work
3 : a form or variant of a type or original

That is to say there are no other accounts contrasting nor adaptations of the literary work. There are no other "forms" or "variants" of the type or original. The Bible is available in different languages (or the original) yet the content remains unchanged.

Seems we're both correct according to what we're saying.

[edit on 25-9-2006 by saint4God]

I agree with toolman, in sorts. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses are considered Christians, but they differ from other Christian denominations about many things such as Jesus' role, the idea of trinity, and even Heaven (to name a few) are proof that the bible has been under man's interpretation for some time.

My point being, we all have our own views of what the Lord is saying to us. Read it for yourself, and you will get the meaning that is meant for you.

PS. Saint4God...bless you too...

Originally posted by hedder
I also am a Christian,

piss-up

A christian shouldn't swear. That doesn't reflect Jesus Christ.