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Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

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posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
...but, all written by men....not by God!!

The Bible was written by men, for men.......


Why do you repeat this Excitable_Boy, not convinced yourself yet?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Show me true words of God


Would you recognize it if you saw it? No, because you've already seen it and still do not recognize.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
(which you can't...you can only show me words written by men who say they are the words of God)


Still not convinced of your own statement. I think if you repeat it enough maybe someday you'll believe it to be true.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
that say it's wrong to have sex before marriage. Come on, show me.....show me!!!

Right....you can't!!


Showing isn't the problem. Accepting what you see is a different matter altogether.




posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Why must I support an opinion? It is not my opinion, however. It is my faith.

answer: from Saint4God
It lends validation, rather than trusting in a person blindly. Surely there are many people of various opinion and faiths. Why would someone trust yours over any other?


My faith is just that...MY faith. I'm not asking anyone to do anything. I'm not asking anyone to trust anything I am stating. I am stating my belief, my faith. People can take it or leave it. I'm not preaching and I'm not looking for new members for some cult. I am not an Evangelist freak that feels it necessary to CONVERT the masses. This is an open forum so I am sharing my belief and my faith. Do with it what you want.......

Why do you trust the Bible blindly?



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Please provide support for your opinion other than by quoting scripture.

answer: from saint4God
I don't think we have the time for those pages of personal history. I have summarized before (including this thread) and will continue to do so.


All you have done this entire thread is quote scripture. You are incapable of having an original thought. Although we did touch the surface of the fact that you are an abusive person that is working on getting help for it supposedly.....



from me:
Marriage is something that was created by man, not by God!

from Saint4God:
Sorry you don't have a source for this line of thinking. The source I have is this:

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." - Hebrews 13:4


I have a source for my line of thinking. ME! You have a source for yours as well....some scripture written by a man. Also...it appears you have read into this scripture something that is not there. It says 1. "God will judge the adulterer" which means God will judge someone that cheats on their spouse and 2. "God will judge the sexually immoral." Why have you (and a lot of others on here obviously) decided that this means unmarried people? Are all unmarried people that have sex immoral? Because this scripture does not say that. You and your lot have obviously concluded that for yourselves. I think "sexually immoral" would be more like Catholic priests that rape young boys or rapists in general or sexually abusive men and women in general, or people that have sexual relations with animals, etc. It says nothing in this scripture about a couple that cares for each other making love without marriage....NOTHING!!



Now I know how resistant you are to using the Bible, so we can discuss real life examples of benefits of marriage and the detriments of sex before marriage if you like.


No offense, but you are not someone that should be giving anyone advice on the benefits of marriage vs. sex before marriage. You have already admitted to having an abuse problem.

Why don't we discuss the opposite? The benefits of sex before marriage and the detriments of sex during marriage? What do you think? Because there are arguments for both sides......



me:
The Bible was written by men, for men.......

Saint4God:
Why do you repeat this Excitable_Boy, not convinced yourself yet?


I'm quite comfortable in my faith...thank you very much. How about you? You're the preacher...the bible thumper....the one that hopes being a Christian will make up for your past indiscretions.....or current indiscretions. I'm not sure where you are in your abusive behavior recovery.....



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Show me true words of God

Saint4God:
Would you recognize it if you saw it? No, because you've already seen it and still do not recognize.


There is nothing to see. It doesn't exist. All that exists are the words of men trying to pass them off as the words of God...or as you once said "the INSPIRED words of God." Everything that comes from God is in my heart and in my mind. It does not exist on paper!



from Saint4God:
Showing isn't the problem. Accepting what you see is a different matter altogether.


What do you see when you look in the mirror?



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I'm not looking for new members for some cult.


Neither am I.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I am not an Evangelist freak that feels it necessary to CONVERT the masses.


Neither am I, so I'm glad we have these two things in common.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Why do you trust the Bible blindly?


I don't trust anything blindly. I'd venture to say most people on ATS do not do so. I cannot confirm however, just make assessments based on what I've heard.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
All you have done this entire thread is quote scripture. You are incapable of having an original thought.


Therefore what I'm saying right here is also plagiarized? Please do show where I've taken word for word our conversation from another source. It's more of an insult to mods then that I haven't been removed already for copyright infringement than to me.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Although we did touch the surface of the fact that you are an abusive person that is working on getting help for it supposedly.....


Bring forth any charges, I will answer for them. My testimony was the last person I hit was my sister at about age 9. I've spanked my kid's bottom a few years ago, but such means of discipline have not been deemed abusive as far as any cultural standards I'm aware of. I've sparred light-contact in Kung-Fu but no damage done. In fact, I'm usually the one taking the stronger hits
.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I have a source for my line of thinking. ME!


Which I'm sure is only helpful for you and even then questionably so. What can one person learn from themself? Only what they already know.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You have a source for yours as well....some scripture written by a man.


Who was this man who wrote the scripture?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Also...it appears you have read into this scripture something that is not there. It says 1. "God will judge the adulterer" which means God will judge someone that cheats on their spouse and 2. "God will judge the sexually immoral."


There are many quotes about sexually immoral. Shall I quote those as well?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Why have you (and a lot of others on here obviously) decided that this means unmarried people?


Did I say that? If so, please show me where.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Are all unmarried people that have sex immoral?


A very good question to which I'd like to hear some serious debate. I've heard some before and would like to hear more before making any assessments.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Because this scripture does not say that.


It is true not all immorality is defined, as the New Testament was based more on how to think moreso than what to think.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You and your lot


I speak for none other than myself and He who sent me to the degree of the mission He has assigned.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
have obviously concluded that for yourselves. I think "sexually immoral" would be more like Catholic priests that rape young boys or rapists in general or sexually abusive men and women in general, or people that have sexual relations with animals, etc.


I would agree also that these acts would be sexually immoral and can go into detail as to why.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
It says nothing in this scripture about a couple that cares for each other making love without marriage....NOTHING!!


Aha! This is where the word fornication comes into play. Now in my NIV version this word isn't used but arguably is in others. Some of these passages are often brought up:

"I made a covenant with my eyes
not to look lustfully at a girl.

For what is man's lot from God above,
his heritage from the Almighty on high?

Is it not ruin for the wicked,
disaster for those who do wrong?

Does he not see my ways
and count my every step?

"If I have walked in falsehood
or my foot has hurried after deceit-

et God weigh me in honest scales
and he will know that I am blameless-

if my steps have turned from the path,
if my heart has been led by my eyes,
or if my hands have been defiled,

then may others eat what I have sown,
and may my crops be uprooted.

"If my heart has been enticed by a woman,
or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door,

then may my wife grind another man's grain,
and may other men sleep with her.

For that would have been shameful,
a sin to be judged." - Job 31:1

and

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - Matthew 5:28

Christ does say "anyone", not "married guys". Furthermore, I believe it is possible to commit adultery BEFORE being married. That is to say if you are committed in any way to another, you should do nothing that prompts lust, flirting and so forth as that would also qualify as adultery. So saint4God, can you say you have always been free of this sin? Nope, guilty as charged. But, recognized that Christ died and paid for these sins, I am to put these old ways behind me and put on righteousness from here on out. To be disciplined to do what is right and pleasing to not only God, but my significant other.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
No offense, but you are not someone that should be giving anyone advice on the benefits of marriage vs. sex before marriage.


No offense but you are not the judge of that. In fact, I'm taking a leadership course to determine if I should assume a counsellor role.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You have already admitted to having an abuse problem.


What is my abuse problem? Where do you believe I have admitted one?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Why don't we discuss the opposite? The benefits of sex before marriage and the detriments of sex during marriage?


We could but it only paints half a picture. I think many are aware of what they believe are benefits.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
What do you think? Because there are arguments for both sides......


Undoubtably, but the difference is one is obvious, while the other is not.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I'm quite comfortable in my faith...thank you very much.


Then why the need to repeat "the Bible was written by men for men"? It really doesn't give the statement any credibility whatsoever.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
How about you?


I have seen and I believe.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You're the preacher...


Thank you, though not officially.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
the bible thumper....


I "thumped" the Bible before I believed because I was angry at the book but since then have treated it with courtesy and respect as its Word is of great value to me.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
the one that hopes being a Christian will make up for your past indiscretions.....or current indiscretions.


Everyone should try to do so, though some things are irreversible.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I'm not sure where you are in your abusive behavior recovery.....


After I hit my sister at age 9, I did have the realization that such things are unjustifiable. My recovery was also at age 9 and have put these violent ways behind me never to return.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
There is nothing to see. It doesn't exist. All that exists are the words of men trying to pass them off as the words of God...or as you once said "the INSPIRED words of God." Everything that comes from God is in my heart and in my mind. It does not exist on paper!


I rest my case. Even if written you would deny it then as you're not willing to see that it can indeed exist in writting. God wrote it once and we broke it in our anger.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
What do you see when you look in the mirror?


A lot of what others see. A body, a person. I can let my mind go introspective to reflect on who I am and where I've been. I can wonder what tomorrow will bring, or realize I need to floss.


[edit on 12-10-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 03:23 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I have a source for my line of thinking. ME!

answer: from Saint4God
Which I'm sure is only helpful for you and even then questionably so. What can one person learn from themself? Only what they already know.


What is between me and God is exactly that...between me and God. So, you saying it is only helpful to me is quite correct. My faith is mine and mine alone.

I don't just learn from myself Saint4. I am quite well read in Theology and
Philosophy. I have learned a lot from various mentors and people in my life. It took a lot to get to where I am today with regards to my faith. And I repeat: MY faith!

With all that education, reading and learning from others....I came to MY faith....thus, making my statement that you quoted quite correct. The source for my line of thinking is ME!! God is in my heart, my mind, my soul and the entire universe. If I died today I'd be good with that, because I'm good with God!!

I don't need Jesus (though I believe he was a great man and a great mortal prophet)....and I don't need your kind quoting scripture after scripture of the words of mortal men. I need God and I have God!! And God loves me!!




more from Saint4God:
"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - Matthew 5:28

Christ does say "anyone", not "married guys". Furthermore, I believe it is possible to commit adultery BEFORE being married.


Again, your scripture talks about married people. I believe you when you say you believe it possible to commit adultery before marriage. I bet you believe it's possible for someone to commit adultery before they are born!


[edit on 12-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
What is between me and God is exactly that...between me and God.


Certainly.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
So, you saying it is only helpful to me is quite correct. My faith is mine and mine alone.


Fair enough.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I don't just learn from myself Saint4. I am quite well read in Theology and
Philosophy.


You mean books written by men for men?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I have learned a lot from various mentors and people in my life. It took a lot to get to where I am today with regards to my faith. And I repeat: MY faith!


Just trying to challenge some of your thinking for the same purpose that you have mentors and read which is to grow. That, and to respond to your questions and issues as you've brought them up.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
With all that education, reading and learning from others....I came to MY faith....thus, making my statement that you quoted quite correct. The source for my line of thinking is ME!! God is in my heart, my mind, my soul and the entire universe. If I died today I'd be good with that, because I'm good with God!!

I don't need Jesus....


You're willing to be accountable for all of your sins? Are you sure?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
and I don't need your kind


Tell me more about "my kind" as I'm always interested in learning about the group I'm being placed into.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
quoting scripture after scripture of the words of mortal men.


Ah, but the books you read are from God? And those mentors you have, are they not men?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I need God and I have God!! And God loves me!!


I think that's important and in no way seek to diminish that. Just the opposite. I'm seeking to augment your relationship with God however possible.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy


more from Saint4God:
"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - Matthew 5:28

Christ does say "anyone", not "married guys". Furthermore, I believe it is possible to commit adultery BEFORE being married.


Again, your scripture talks about married people.


That's not what the scripture says. Christ does not say "married people" nor is he including this in a chapter just for married people. Christ says "anyone"


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I believe you when you say you believe it possible to commit adultery before marriage.


Point of agreement.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I bet you believe it's possible for someone to commit adultery before they are born!


How so?

[edit on 12-10-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 04:20 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I don't just learn from myself Saint4. I am quite well read in Theology and
Philosophy.

answer: from Saint4God
You mean books written by men for men?


Yes....books written by men and women. Men and women not claiming that they are the words of God.



You're willing to be accountable for all of your sins? Are you sure?


Is this some backhanded threat Saint4? I am accountable for everything I have done in my life. God understands that I am human and thus, am not perfect. He is perfect and omipotent.....He certainly doesn't expect me to be like Him. I am mortal. He is not.

We are all accountable for our sins Saint4, whether we are Christians or not.



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
quoting scripture after scripture of the words of mortal men.

answer: from Saint4God
Ah, but the books you read are from God? And those mentors you have, are they not men?


You crack me up. I am not claiming that anything I have ever read were the words of God. You, however, are the one claiming that your prescious scriptures are the words of God. They are not.




That's not what the scripture says. Christ does not say "married people" nor is he including this in a chapter just for married people. Christ says "anyone"


Wrong. Your scripture says "anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery...." Adultery is when a married person cheats on their spouse. So again, you and your scripture are talking about married people only.


To the young man who started this thread (who probably isn't even involved any longer): Move in with your girlfriend and have lots of sex and enjoy the life that God gave you. He gave you life to be enjoyed...not to spend worrying about every move you make. Don't live inside a box like these Christian Cult members do, preaching about how this or that should be for you or anyone else. If that's how they want to live...fine for them. Actually, it's their loss because they just don't get it!

God wants us to live and enjoy life...not to spend every moment worrying about how we behave is going to affect us when we die. If that's the way we are supposed to live, then we really aren't alive. We might as well already be dead.

[edit on 12-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 05:36 PM
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Was just skimming over this thread and happened to notice something...:




originally posted by saint4god
It is true not all immorality is defined, as the New Testament was based more on how to think moreso than what to think.




Nice.

I fully agree with this.

This a major point of importance in regard to the teachings of Gnostic Christianity as well.


But we must ask ourselves...

Why is it that so many people read the same New Testament books, yet all think so in contradiction to one another?


Is it because few have actual Gnosis of the teachings and many do not?

Is it because one particular sect is better than the others?

Or because God chooses who will not be saved, and who will be saved, by allowing the latter to interpret the doctrine in the way conducive to being saved?


Etc., etc., etc.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 10:06 PM
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Or because God chooses who will not be saved, and who will be saved, by allowing the latter to interpret the doctrine in the way conducive to being saved?



Or...perhaps God doesn't play favorites and allows EVERYONE into heaven. Makes more sense to me...since he created all of us...and humans created religion, not God!

Saved? Saved from what? We are all going to die. Face it.....and we are all going to the same place when we die. BACs don't have privilege over others.......

I'm so sick of the privilege BACs think they have...or any Christian for that matter.....get over your good selfs already. Sickening egocentric hubris garbage!

And...it appears you BACs are the ones that have decided who will be "saved." You're all playing God!! Does He like that??



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Yes....books written by men and women. Men and women not claiming that they are the words of God.


So you're following the "wisdom" and teaching of men and women. What do you think God thinks of that?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Is this some backhanded threat Saint4?


Not at all, as I have no judgement or authority to make you accountable for them whatsoever. He however, does. I'm curious to see if there's a full comprehension of what that would entail as "He does not leave the guilty unpunished".


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I am accountable for everything I have done in my life. God understands that I am human and thus, am not perfect. He is perfect and omipotent.....He certainly doesn't expect me to be like Him. I am mortal. He is not.


Are you saying he's unrighteous, that he'd allow the guilty to go free? And here you were upset about an abusive husband being permitted to live. Don't make no sense, do it?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
We are all accountable for our sins Saint4, whether we are Christians or not.


Christ says he would take our sins and carry them to the grave so that we who believe would receive the free gift of eternal life.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You crack me up. I am not claiming that anything I have ever read were the words of God.


If you've read my quotes in my posts then indeed you have.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You, however, are the one claiming that your prescious scriptures are the words of God. They are not.


And you know this...how?



Originally posted by Excitable_Boy


That's not what the scripture says. Christ does not say "married people" nor is he including this in a chapter just for married people. Christ says "anyone"


Wrong. Your scripture says "anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery...." Adultery is when a married person cheats on their spouse. So again, you and your scripture are talking about married people only.


You yourself said "anyone". Something to think about.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
To the young man who started this thread (who probably isn't even involved any longer): Move in with your girlfriend and have lots of sex and enjoy the life that God gave you. He gave you life to be enjoyed...not to spend worrying about every move you make. Don't live inside a box like these Christian Cult members do, preaching about how this or that should be for you or anyone else. If that's how they want to live...fine for them. Actually, it's their loss because they just don't get it!


No, he cannot hear you. Any clues as to why?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
God wants us to live and enjoy life...not to spend every moment worrying about how we behave is going to affect us when we die. If that's the way we are supposed to live, then we really aren't alive. We might as well already be dead.


Why would God tell people to "do whatever you want"? That assumes that we're incapable of evil. Do you tell the husband who abuses his wife to "do whatever you want"?

[edit on 13-10-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 04:56 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Yes....books written by men and women. Men and women not claiming that they are the words of God.

answer: from Saint4God
So you're following the "wisdom" and teaching of men and women. What do you think God thinks of that?


God likes it just fine. Is He going to expect me to read the words and wisdom of aliens? If He wanted to share his wisdom directly with me, He would do that. He hasn't yet.....He probably won't until I die!



I'm curious to see if there's a full comprehension of what that would entail as "He does not leave the guilty unpunished".


Save the scripture nonsense...it's not from God. Maybe you should be concerned with yourself and not me. I'm all set and God and I are just fine with each other!



Are you saying he's unrighteous, that he'd allow the guilty to go free? And here you were upset about an abusive husband being permitted to live. Don't make no sense, do it?


Ha? Allow the guilty to go free? Abusive husband permitted to live? I want abusive husbands punished while they are alive. None of this "oh, well they will get eternal damnation" nonsense.

Makes plenty of sense Saint4.....what goes on on earth while we are in human form is different than what goes on when we are free of the binds of the body. I believe in reincarnation....and an abusive person will probably be taught a lesson in his/her next life....like perhaps be the victim of abuse themselves. I believe we live many lives until we reach a point where we no longer need the binds of human form...then we spend eternity in heaven or whatever you want to call it...Nirvana, the afterlife....at the side of God. No form, we just ARE....free of form. Free of color, race, religion, hate, greed, sex, etc. etc. etc.......

We become one with the universe my friend. As God is one with the universe! And we ALL have the ability to get there....some just might take longer than others.



from me:
We are all accountable for our sins Saint4, whether we are Christians or not.

from Saint4God:
Christ says he would take our sins and carry them to the grave so that we who believe would receive the free gift of eternal life.


Good for Christ. Did he tell you this or did you read the words of a mortal man telling you this? And it seems to me that your kind use this as an excuse to sin...because you can just have Christ forgive your sins. So it's sin away for the Christians. This whole way of thinking is basically a license to sin. This is not a God thing...it's a man thing.



me:
You crack me up. I am not claiming that anything I have ever read were the words of God.

Saint4God:
If you've read my quotes in my posts then indeed you have.


Ha? Please try to be honest. Show me where I said anything in any of my posts was the words of God? If you mean by reading your scripture quotes I have read the words of God.....wrong. I don't believe a word in the Bible is from God or inspired by God. So what the hey are you talking about?



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You, however, are the one claiming that your prescious scriptures are the words of God. They are not.

answer: from Saint4God
And you know this...how?


Common sense....and some sense that is more than common!



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
God wants us to live and enjoy life...not to spend every moment worrying about how we behave is going to affect us when we die. If that's the way we are supposed to live, then we really aren't alive. We might as well already be dead.

answer: from Saint4God
Why would God tell people to "do whatever you want"? That assumes that we're incapable of evil. Do you tell the husband who abuses his wife to "do whatever you want"?


I said He wants us to enjoy life. I did not say He thinks we should "do whatever we want." Humans are quite capable of evil...unfortunately it comes with the territory. Much of the evil commited by men is a result of mental illness, psycopaths, sociopaths, etc... which are diseases of the body/mind.....not the soul.

The husband that abuses his wife needs to be punished here on earth...in the real world. Saying that he will be punished with "eternal damnation," as you have said many times earlier in this thread, is ridiculous.

I wouldn't call abusing one's wife enjoying life. Would you?

Do you even know what it is to enjoy life? What that means? I truly don't think you do and that is quite sad!

[edit on 13-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
God likes it just fine. Is He going to expect me to read the words and wisdom of aliens? If He wanted to share his wisdom directly with me, He would do that. He hasn't yet.....He probably won't until I die!


I submit that you can have that relations now.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Save the scripture nonsense...it's not from God.


That's not what He says.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Maybe you should be concerned with yourself and not me. I'm all set and God and I are just fine with each other!


Apparently not if He's not talking to you.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Ha? Allow the guilty to go free? Abusive husband permitted to live? I want abusive husbands punished while they are alive. None of this "oh, well they will get eternal damnation" nonsense.


I see so you want punishment for people who are doing evil while they're alive but be free of any responsibility when they die. So the guys who bust into a school, shoot up people, them themselves....they're going to be prancing with daisies in their hair in heaven?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Makes plenty of sense Saint4.....what goes on on earth while we are in human form is different than what goes on when we are free of the binds of the body. I believe in reincarnation....


Welcome back.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
and an abusive person will probably be taught a lesson in his/her next life....like perhaps be the victim of abuse themselves.


So the battered wife must has done something wrong in a previous life?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I believe we live many lives until we reach a point where we no longer need the binds of human form...then we spend eternity in heaven or whatever you want to call it...Nirvana, the afterlife....at the side of God. No form, we just ARE....free of form. Free of color, race, religion, hate, greed, sex, etc. etc. etc.......


I agree heaven is free of sin...else it wouldn't be heaven.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
We become one with the universe my friend. As God is one with the universe! And we ALL have the ability to get there....some just might take longer than others.


This is my last stop, so if I don't see you there it was nice knowing ya.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Good for Christ.


Moreso good for us. He didn't receive near the benefits of the journey as we have.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Did he tell you this or did you read the words of a mortal man telling you this?


He directed me to go to the Bible. I had a lot of questions that were already answered


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
And it seems to me that your kind use this as an excuse to sin...because you can just have Christ forgive your sins. So it's sin away for the Christians.


That's not Biblical at all. Who whom loves another wishes them harm?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
This whole way of thinking is basically a license to sin. This is not a God thing...it's a man thing.


I agree that license to sin would be a man thing.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Ha? Please try to be honest. Show me where I said anything in any of my posts was the words of God?


I see none.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
If you mean by reading your scripture quotes I have read the words of God.....wrong. I don't believe a word in the Bible is from God or inspired by God. So what the hey are you talking about?


I'm not responsible for what you believe, only you are.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Common sense....and some sense that is more than common!


You believe all that you see? And hear? These are common senses, but following them can be deceptive. Even uncommon ones can be as well.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I said He wants us to enjoy life. I did not say He thinks we should "do whatever we want." Humans are quite capable of evil...unfortunately it comes with the territory.


Indeed, through the choices we have made and make.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Much of the evil commited by men is a result of mental illness, psycopaths, sociopaths, etc... which are diseases of the body/mind.....not the soul.


I say there are many more evils than that. Including things you and I have done/do.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The husband that abuses his wife needs to be punished here on earth...in the real world. Saying that he will be punished with "eternal damnation," as you have said many times earlier in this thread, is ridiculous.


Moreso ridiculous for you to say the abused wife "deserves it" because of a prior life of wrong choices. Also, that one who beats his wife goes free in heaven when he dies without any payment for those sins.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I wouldn't call abusing one's wife enjoying life. Would you?


The husband may think so. I don't know.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Do you even know what it is to enjoy life?


Indeed, and daily



Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
What that means? I truly don't think you do and that is quite sad!


You're making this judgement because of my discussions on ATS? Are you serious?



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 04:28 PM
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Always a pleasure Saint4...and I must say you are my toughest challenge on here. So...bravo!



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
God likes it just fine. Is He going to expect me to read the words and wisdom of aliens? If He wanted to share his wisdom directly with me, He would do that. He hasn't yet.....He probably won't until I die!

answer: from saint4God
I submit that you can have that relations now.


I don't disagree. As I said and you quoted...."He probably won't until I die!" Probably leaves room for the possibility that it may happen while I'm alive. I'm not going to be like you and pretend it has.



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Save the scripture nonsense...it's not from God.

answer: from Saint4God
That's not what He says.


Really? So you have spoken to God? Fascinating! When did you and He talk? How often have you both talked? Do you tell people this at large religious gatherings and then ask them to give you 10% of their incomes so you can drive Bentley's and live in Mansions??



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Maybe you should be concerned with yourself and not me. I'm all set and God and I are just fine with each other!

answer: from Saint4God
Apparently not if He's not talking to you.


That's your opinion! I have my faith and you don't have the power to shake it friend! So....don't bother!



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Ha? Allow the guilty to go free? Abusive husband permitted to live? I want abusive husbands punished while they are alive. None of this "oh, well they will get eternal damnation" nonsense.

answer: from Saint4God
I see so you want punishment for people who are doing evil while they're alive but be free of any responsibility when they die. So the guys who bust into a school, shoot up people, them themselves....they're going to be prancing with daisies in their hair in heaven?


It's not quite that cut and dry or simple Saint4. God understands that by being given human form, we have the potential to have sick minds which can cause us to do evil. A soul is confined to the body it has inhabited. It doesn't make the soul bad if the body is bad.

You understand because you have had issues with abuse before that you are supposedly working on. Remember I mentioned such diseases of the mind as psycopathic and sociopathic behavior? These are diseases just like cancer or diabetes. Does one not get to go to heaven if they have cancer?



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
and an abusive person will probably be taught a lesson in his/her next life....like perhaps be the victim of abuse themselves.

answer: from saint4God
So the battered wife must has done something wrong in a previous life?


I suppose it's possible, but we certainly wouldn't judge her in this life based on a past life would we? She could also simply be the victim of a man with a sick mind.....you understand, because you are working on that yourself!



This is my last stop, so if I don't see you there it was nice knowing ya.


There's no way it's your last stop....and you don't know me.



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Did he tell you this or did you read the words of a mortal man telling you this?

answer: from Saint4God
He directed me to go to the Bible. I had a lot of questions that were already answered


So Jesus spoke to you? Fascinating! When did Jesus speak to you and tell you to read the Bible?



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
And it seems to me that your kind use this as an excuse to sin...because you can just have Christ forgive your sins. So it's sin away for the Christians.

answer: from Saint4God
That's not Biblical at all. Who whom loves another wishes them harm?
quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

This whole way of thinking is basically a license to sin. This is not a God thing...it's a man thing.

answer: from Saint4God
I agree that license to sin would be a man thing.


I know it's not biblical...but it is a fact that Christians use their religion as a license to sin. You feel you can get away with ANYTHING as long as 1. You take Jesus as your savior and 2. You ask for forgiveness

Sounds like a license to sin to me! It IS a man thing and a CHRISTIAN thing!! But certainly NOT a God thing!!



I say there are many more evils than that. Including things you and I have done/do.


It's good you are able to spot evil...that's why you were able to help yourself. You have no idea what I have done...so don't go there. But I'm certainly not perfect and have made mistakes in my life. Don't confuse mistakes with sins.



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The husband that abuses his wife needs to be punished here on earth...in the real world. Saying that he will be punished with "eternal damnation," as you have said many times earlier in this thread, is ridiculous.

answer: from saint4God
Moreso ridiculous for you to say the abused wife "deserves it" because of a prior life of wrong choices. Also, that one who beats his wife goes free in heaven when he dies without any payment for those sins.


I never said she deserved anything (re-read an earlier comment of mine within this same post). What are you talking about? Payment for sins? According to you...if this guy was a Christian all he would have to do is 1. Take Jesus as his Savior and 2. Ask for forgiveness.....and then he is all set! This is from you and your Bible Saint4...not from me.



[edit on 17-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Always a pleasure Saint4...and I must say you are my toughest challenge on here. So...bravo!


Okay, glad I could help? I'm not trying to be a challenge for anyone and certainly not pointlessly so.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I don't disagree. As I said and you quoted...."He probably won't until I die!" Probably leaves room for the possibility that it may happen while I'm alive. I'm not going to be like you and pretend it has.


I'm not pretending. Nor am I the only one. Nor am I looney, ad infinitum. Finally, it's something I'd like to share to those interested.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Really? So you have spoken to God?


Yah. I should daily and then some, but sometimes slip and forget.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Fascinating! When did you and He talk?


Usually it's not in a conversational format. Usually the answers come later.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
How often have you both talked?


After He speaks, I tend not to say anything for a number of reasons. One, it's very surprising (even though I should know better by now). Two, what's said requires serious thought and consideration. Three...what more needs to be said? I've read Biblically where it sounded almost like negotiations with God, but I haven't the nerve to do something like that. Perhaps sometime He will put my heart at ease enough to do so. We'll see.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Do you tell people this at large religious gatherings


I don't know of any other than church, and no I don't announce my experiences except for my mentor there. I recognize my experiences are atypical. I will however, affirm and validate when others bring up similar experiences.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
and then ask them to give you 10% of their incomes so you can drive Bentley's and live in Mansions??


I drive a 1998 Saturn SL2 four door sedan and live in a townhouse purchased at $130,000. I refinanced though to carry other debts so I'm at about $180,000 I owe. Oh, and college loans are $48,000 at moment. Debt-wise I'm around $230,000. Which isn't too shabby in this day and age, but I don't have a New York salary, that's for sure. Not sure why I have to justify my income and expenses. I give 10%, I don't receive it.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
That's your opinion! I have my faith and you don't have the power to shake it friend! So....don't bother!


Not my opinion, you stated so yourself.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy


answer: from Saint4God
I see so you want punishment for people who are doing evil while they're alive but be free of any responsibility when they die. So the guys who bust into a school, shoot up people, them themselves....they're going to be prancing with daisies in their hair in heaven?


It's not quite that cut and dry or simple Saint4. God understands that by being given human form, we have the potential to have sick minds which can cause us to do evil. A soul is confined to the body it has inhabited. It doesn't make the soul bad if the body is bad.


So you're blaming the body for a person being abusive to his wife? A medical check-up would then cure the problem.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You understand because you have had issues with abuse before that you are supposedly working on.


If you're talking about me fighting with my sister at age 9, that has already been resolved. It is not being "worked on".


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Remember I mentioned such diseases of the mind as psycopathic and sociopathic behavior? These are diseases just like cancer or diabetes.


Not quite. Does cancer and diabetes make you evil?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Does one not get to go to heaven if they have cancer?


The illnesses of the body are irrelevant to the spirit.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy


answer: from saint4God
So the battered wife must has done something wrong in a previous life?


I suppose it's possible, but we certainly wouldn't judge her in this life based on a past life would we?


It seems you already have.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
She could also simply be the victim of a man with a sick mind.....you understand, because you are working on that yourself!


No I am not.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
There's no way it's your last stop....and you don't know me.


Yes it is
and you obviously don't know me.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
So Jesus spoke to you? Fascinating! When did Jesus speak to you and tell you to read the Bible?


I said God directed me to the Bible (didn't quite fully understand Jesus at the time). That was a decade and a half ago.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
And it seems to me that your kind


What exactly is "my kind"?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
use this as an excuse to sin...because you can just have Christ forgive your sins. So it's sin away for the Christians.

answer: from Saint4God
That's not Biblical at all. Who whom loves another wishes them harm?
quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

This whole way of thinking is basically a license to sin. This is not a God thing...it's a man thing.


As I said and explained, no it's not. Don't know why you cannot accept that.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
answer: from Saint4God
I agree that license to sin would be a man thing.

I know it's not biblical...


Then you would know:

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." - Jude 1:4

I'd quote more but I'm assured it would not make a difference.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
but it is a fact that Christians use their religion as a license to sin. You feel you can get away with ANYTHING as long as 1. You take Jesus as your savior and 2. You ask for forgiveness


This is not true.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Sounds like a license to sin to me! It IS a man thing and a CHRISTIAN thing!! But certainly NOT a God thing!!


Okay fine, I'll quote more proofs:

"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." - Roman 12:2


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy


I say there are many more evils than that. Including things you and I have done/do.


It's good you are able to spot evil...that's why you were able to help yourself.


I was not able to help myself.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You have no idea what I have done...so don't go there.


I've not made claims about the things you've done even though you're perfectly self-justified in making claims of things I've done.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
But I'm certainly not perfect and have made mistakes in my life. Don't confuse mistakes with sins.


I'll use mistake and sin as the same word for the purposes of this conversation. You may use the word how you wish.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The husband that abuses his wife needs to be punished here on earth...in the real world. Saying that he will be punished with "eternal damnation," as you have said many times earlier in this thread, is ridiculous.

answer: from saint4God
Moreso ridiculous for you to say the abused wife "deserves it" because of a prior life of wrong choices. Also, that one who beats his wife goes free in heaven when he dies without any payment for those sins.

I never said she deserved anything (re-read an earlier comment of mine within this same post). What are you talking about? Payment for sins? According to you...if this guy was a Christian all he would have to do is 1. Take Jesus as his Savior and 2. Ask for forgiveness.....and then he is all set! This is from you and your Bible Saint4...not from me.


No, it does not say "confession is all you have to do!", rather repentence. Are you familiar with what that word means? Hint, I've already quoted it in Romans 12:2. Besides, you're changing the subject and my question. Apparently you think an abuser, murderer, etc. is going to be in heaven with everyone else without paying for what they've done on earth. Why?


[edit on 18-10-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 04:35 PM
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So you're blaming the body for a person being abusive to his wife? A medical check-up would then cure the problem.


Generally, abusive people have one form of mental illness or another. Some were abused growing up and continue the abuse to the next generation....they carry around the hate and anger and take it out on the people close to them. Others, take it out on strangers in the form of rape or murder and any other awful thing you can imagine one person capable of doing to another.

A medical check up doesn't cure anything. I can get a check up and learn I have prostate cancer....did the check up cure it or simply find it? The cure is a whole other animal isn't it? Curing mental illness is pretty tough, especially depending on the degree of the mental illness. Some need to be kept away from society for the rest of their lives....for the good of society (i.e. Charles Manson).

When they die, their soul is a whole different thing. A sick body doesn't have a sick soul. If I died of cancer, my soul wouldn't have cancer.



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Remember I mentioned such diseases of the mind as psycopathic and sociopathic behavior? These are diseases just like cancer or diabetes.

answer: from Saint4God
Not quite. Does cancer and diabetes make you evil?


Mental illnesses are illnesses just like any other. And yes, cancer can make you evil. How? How about a brain tumor? My uncle died of a brain tumor. In the last couple years of his life he went from being a gentle, kind man...to all of a sudden being verbally and physically abusive to his wife and children. It was learned after his death that the tumor was the cause of the change in his personality because of where it was located and the area it pressed against and damaged!

His soul was just fine...his body was damaged.



The illnesses of the body are irrelevant to the spirit.


So...you are in agreement with me! BRAVO!! So why are you contradicting yourself?....I don't think you even realized you did until now!!



"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." - Jude 1:4


Who is this Jude dude and what makes him an authority on the subject? This is a strange passage also because it talks about God and then says that Jesus Christ is our only Lord? What about God? Again....why do you Christians have more than one god?....which fits the definition of a Pagan...why?

And again.....why do you continue to quote scriptures that were written by men? What is the point?



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
but it is a fact that Christians use their religion as a license to sin. You feel you can get away with ANYTHING as long as 1. You take Jesus as your savior and 2. You ask for forgiveness

answer: from Saint4God
This is not true.


Yes...it is quite true!!....and you know it!!



quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
But I'm certainly not perfect and have made mistakes in my life. Don't confuse mistakes with sins.

answer: from Saint4God
I'll use mistake and sin as the same word for the purposes of this conversation. You may use the word how you wish.


If you think mistakes and sins are the same things, you have more problems than I thought!!



Apparently you think an abuser, murderer, etc. is going to be in heaven with everyone else without paying for what they've done on earth. Why?


I did not say this. I said I believe in reincarnation and that a person goes through many lives before they reach Heaven, Nirvana, the After Life or whatever you want to call it. An abuser or murderer will probably be taught a lesson in his/her next life is what I said. I also said we all have the ability to get to heaven, it just may take some longer than others.

You are also talking about the behavior of human beings. Human beings don't go to heaven.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 07:08 PM
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And I have to get back to this:




"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." - Jude 1:4


You know what this is an example of? PROPAGANDA! This is an attempt by men to control people. This is an attempt to tell the world that GOD says to follow Jesus and if you don't you are a godless heathen that will be condemned or are already condemned. This was all planned out nicely by the original "Christians" to take control of the people away from Jews, Muslims and any other group that stood in their way.

Jesus was MADE into the Messiah by the people that wanted to start a new religion and control the masses....the Bible, specifically the New Testament was/is their textbook. The textbook of men to control other men. This is not a God thing! Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and others are closer to God than any of you Christians will ever be! You all are so far from God, you call the supposed son of God, God. That took a lot of brainwashing but damn if it didn't brainwash a hell of a lot of the masses who carried it through generations to this thing called Christianity. What is it? It's an abomination.......

"certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you"

What is that? This means hate everyone that is not a Christian. This means don't trust people that aren't Christian. Yet, the OT teaches "Thou shalt not hate" doesn't it? Yet....the Bible teaches segregation and racism (or religionism...not sure what the right word here is)? Where do you think the people of the Earth got those wonderful ideas? From your BOOK. The Bible. The first book that taught one to hate one's neighbor if they weren't of the same religion? NOT A GOD THING!!

"They are godless men"

Really? According to who? Are they Godless or Jesusless? Sounds like the Christians are the Godless ones to me. They seem to have lost sight of God.

"They....deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord"

So what? Who said they HAD to take Jesus as their savior? God didn't. A bunch of men that started a new religion did. They created Jesus and thus, Christianity. I don't deny the existence of Jesus.....I just don't believe he was anything more than a mortal prophet and probably a very good man. You think God is going to cut me out of us will because of this? No way....He is going to welcome me with open arms because I haven't lost sight of Him! But....He will welcome you too, because He welcomes everyone! All us crazy human beings!



posted on Oct, 19 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Generally, abusive people have one form of mental illness or another. Some were abused growing up and continue the abuse to the next generation....they carry around the hate and anger and take it out on the people close to them. Others, take it out on strangers in the form of rape or murder and any other awful thing you can imagine one person capable of doing to another.

A medical check up doesn't cure anything. I can get a check up and learn I have prostate cancer....did the check up cure it or simply find it? The cure is a whole other animal isn't it?


It's the 3rd step. 1.) Prognosis (check-up) 2.) Diagnosis 3.) Surgery. Same animal.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Curing mental illness is pretty tough, especially depending on the degree of the mental illness. Some need to be kept away from society for the rest of their lives....for the good of society (i.e. Charles Manson).


Agreed.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
When they die, their soul is a whole different thing. A sick body doesn't have a sick soul. If I died of cancer, my soul wouldn't have cancer.

Remember I mentioned such diseases of the mind as psycopathic and sociopathic behavior? These are diseases just like cancer or diabetes.


If they were diseases (physical) we should be able to detect them. In that case, why don't we?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Mental illnesses are illnesses just like any other. And yes, cancer can make you evil. How? How about a brain tumor? My uncle died of a brain tumor. In the last couple years of his life he went from being a gentle, kind man...to all of a sudden being verbally and physically abusive to his wife and children. It was learned after his death that the tumor was the cause of the change in his personality because of where it was located and the area it pressed against and damaged!

His soul was just fine...his body was damaged.


What about those who have a sick soul and a healthy body?


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
So...you are in agreement with me! BRAVO!! So why are you contradicting yourself?....I don't think you even realized you did until now!!


If you agree that an evil soul can have a healthy body then we're in agreement. I'm stating the two are independent factors.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Who is this Jude dude and what makes him an authority on the subject? This is a strange passage also because it talks about God and then says that Jesus Christ is our only Lord? What about God? Again....why do you Christians have more than one god?....which fits the definition of a Pagan...why?


This is already explained in the Bible, I doubt you'd want me to quote the whole thing.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
And again.....why do you continue to quote scriptures that were written by men? What is the point?


I'm not quoting scriptures that are the words from men, those are the books you've stated you study.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Yes...it is quite true!!....and you know it!!


Heh, no.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
If you think mistakes and sins are the same things, you have more problems than I thought!!


For the purposes of discussing moralitiy and ethics, it should be. It pointless spending time talking about typo's here.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I did not say this. I said I believe in reincarnation and that a person goes through many lives before they reach Heaven, Nirvana, the After Life or whatever you want to call it. An abuser or murderer will probably be taught a lesson in his/her next life is what I said. I also said we all have the ability to get to heaven, it just may take some longer than others.


So you'll be seeing Hitler in heaven? Eventually that is. And, Hitler gets to get there without accountability for his actions? After all, it must've been his body's fault



Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You are also talking about the behavior of human beings. Human beings don't go to heaven.


Their spirits do (at least I think we agree on this). I just find it ironic that you demand justice now for an abuser when it's not their fault...as they are just reacting to their body making them do these things, right?



posted on Oct, 19 2006 @ 04:43 PM
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Their spirits do (at least I think we agree on this). I just find it ironic that you demand justice now for an abuser when it's not their fault...as they are just reacting to their body making them do these things, right?



Wrong. You are missing my point entirely and quite purposely.



What about those who have a sick soul and a healthy body?


I don't believe there are sick souls.



So you'll be seeing Hitler in heaven? Eventually that is.


Hitler was a human being. Human beings don't go to heaven. The soul that inhabited his sick body will eventually find its way there. Just like souls don't have cancer or other HUMAN diseases they also don't have mental illnesses either.

[edit on 19-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Wrong. You are missing my point entirely and quite purposely.


I don't miss points purposely.


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I don't believe there are sick souls.


Agree or disagree?: Spiritually, Hitler was a good guy


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Hitler was a human being. Human beings don't go to heaven. The soul that inhabited his sick body will eventually find its way there. Just like souls don't have cancer or other HUMAN diseases they also don't have mental illnesses either.


So Hitler's decision to kill thousands upon thousands of civilians what all a result of a mental condition, therefore not ACTUALLY a decision he made so his soul is not accountable?



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 04:33 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I don't believe there are sick souls.

answer: from Saint4God
Agree or disagree?: Spiritually, Hitler was a good guy

quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Hitler was a human being. Human beings don't go to heaven. The soul that inhabited his sick body will eventually find its way there. Just like souls don't have cancer or other HUMAN diseases they also don't have mental illnesses either.

answer: from saint4God
So Hitler's decision to kill thousands upon thousands of civilians what all a result of a mental condition, therefore not ACTUALLY a decision he made so his soul is not accountable?


To answer your first question: Spirituality and the soul are 2 completely different things. Spirituality delves into one's faith or beliefs. A human being is spiritual if he/she has faith. Spiritually, Hitler considered himself a Christian, so you and he have something in common. Hitler, the human being, was mentally and spiritually ill.

To answer your second question: Hitler certainly was mentally ill. I don't think anyone on the planet would argue that. He was a psychopath among other things. The decisions he made were his. Where did I say if someone had a mental illness they weren't accountable for their actions? I said some need to be put away for the rest of their lives to keep them away from society like Charles Manson, which I also mentioned earlier.

I, again, told you I believe in reincarnation. I'm sure the soul of someone like Hitler would be held accountable by being taught a lesson in the next life or lives. But his soul, like EVERYONE's has the potential, someday, to go to the same place as everyone else's. Again...we all get to Heaven or Nirvana or whatever you want to call it when we are ready and it certainly would take longer for some than for others.

Stop trying to put words into my mouth. It's getting really old!



posted on Oct, 21 2006 @ 07:37 AM
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Spirituality and the soul are 2 completely different things.

I would agree with this statement.




Spirituality delves into one's faith or beliefs.

but not this one. I you read some of the gnostic writings Jeshua makes a great distinction between soul and spirit. Spirit having to do with much more than faith and beliefs.



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