Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

"Jesus Camp"?


Oh man.

That just sounds like something a bunch of devil pedophiles would be waiting in line to sign up for, as to hind behind the name of Jesus for the sake of "teaching the children about Jesus". :shk:

Originally posted by Tamahu
"Jesus Camp"?


Oh man.

That just sounds like something a bunch of devil pedophiles would be waiting in line to sign up for, as to hind behind the name of Jesus for the sake of "teaching the children about Jesus". :shk:

Not to be judgemental or anything right? It just "sounds" like something "a bunch of devil pedophiles would be waiting in line" for eh? The nice thing about the truth is it exists no matter what someone's opinion (or prejudice in this case) is. So, I'd be amiss if I didn't follow through with ATS' efforts to deny ignorance.

[edit on 4-10-2006 by saint4God]

I'm sorry, but you know these things are common in Western "Christian" religious institutions.

I've looked up Jesus Camp and it is obviously a brainwashing scam based on the false George Bush style "Conservative Christian" front.


We know damn well that G.W. Bush could care less about stopping abortion(I'm against it myself).

He only wants the minds of the masses of so called "Conservative Christians" to follow him, because they're usually fanatical and easy to manipulate.

But of course good ol' G.W. is really a Skull & Bones, war-mongering, Zionazi Black-Magician who does the exact opposite of what the Divine Rabbi of Galilee taught.


But people are dumb enough to believe G.W. Bush and his cronies.


Really, how could someone support George Bush and claim to be Christian at the same time?



www.infowars.com...








[edit on 4-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Since we've gone so far off-topic it is no longer recognizable despite pleas to stay on task, and since apparently we've exhausted the topic to the extent that no-one else has a valuable contribution to place upon it, let us follow these distracting rabbit-trails wherever they may lead....

Originally posted by Tamahu
I'm sorry, but you know these things are common in Western "Christian" religious institutions.

What "things" are common in Western Christian religious institutions? I'd like to uncover all that this blanket statement attempts to generalize.

Originally posted by Tamahu
I've looked up Jesus Camp and it is obviously a brainwashing scam based on the false George Bush style "Conservative Christian" front.

Ah, it's Bush's fault. Of course! The whole world must be Bush's fault. Now it is also a "scam" of some sort. Do elaborate.

Originally posted by Tamahu
We know damn well that G.W. Bush could care less about stopping abortion(I'm against it myself).

Wait wait, it's now Bush's inactivity towards abortions to blame? Certainly one can clearly see the connection, but for those of us whom you may have left behind on this statement, would you mind connecting the dots?

Originally posted by Tamahu
He only wants the minds of the masses of so called "Conservative Christians" to follow him, because they're usually fanatical and easy to manipulate.

Why didn't they call it "Bush Camp" then? Not very effective of one leader to say go follow another, no?

Originally posted by Tamahu
But of course good ol' G.W. is really Skull & Bones, war-mongering, Zionazi Black-Magician who does the exact opposite of what the Divine Rabbi of Galilee taught.

But people are dumb enough to believe G.W. Bush and his cronies.

I thought you were saying it's Bush's fault we have Jesus Camp, now you're saying he's the opposite of Jesus? Which is it?

[edit on 4-10-2006 by saint4God]

Saint4.....did you bother to watch the video of the "Jesus Camp?"

here it is: www.thatlitevideosite.com...

Watch that video and then tell me there is no abuse of these children going on. If you can watch that and tell me this is normal and right.....then I don't know what to say. I watch that and I find it disturbing, abusive and yes...it's brainwashing and everyone involved should have charges pressed against them for child abuse!!

This video came from GMA on ABC by the way...if you're hoping the source is not "legitimate." It quite legitimate and quite horrible!!

Can you say "more sociopathic behavior?"

[edit on 4-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Yep, "Jesus Camp" obviously utilizes legitimate Black Magic(mind control) in order to turn out psycho-killers for George Bush(Or the Black Lodge rather. One almost wonders if if G.W. Bush is the incarnation of Moloch himself) by taking advantage of the emotions of children.

And the worst part about it, is that it's all in the name of "Jesus".


What has "Jesus Camp" really to do with Jesus anyway?

Not much at all.

As the Gnostic Master Samael Aun Weor said:

Jahve Often spelled Yahweh, and intentionally confused with Jehovah (they are both spelled the same way in Hebrew: YHVH). While Jehovah is a very postitive and potent name of God, Yahve (Jahve) is the name of a demon who has been misleading humanity for ages.

"Jahve is a terribly perverse fallen Angel. Jahve is the genius of evil. Christ is the leader of the Great White Lodge and Jahve, his antithesis, is the chief of the Great Black Lodge. The powers of Light and Darkness live in eternal struggle and that struggle is rooted in sex. The semen is the battlefield. In the semen, Angels and Demons fight to the death. The medullar bone of the great conflict between Angels and Demons is sex. There is the problem. There is the root of all the white and black doctrines. Christ has his program of action, Jahve has his. The chosen follow the Christ. The great majority of human beings fanatically follow Jahve.

Nevertheless, they all hide behind the cross." - The Perfect Matrimony

"Javhe has a very grave Karma, since he was the secret perpetrator of the crucifixion of Christ, and he is also directly responsible for the failure of human evolution on the Earth. He has to irremediably pay these old debts, because no one can mock the law with impunity." - The Revolution of Beelzebub

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Saint4.....did you bother to watch the video of the "Jesus Camp?"

Yes.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
here it is: www.thatlitevideosite.com...

Watch that video and then tell me there is no abuse of these children going on. If you can watch that and tell me this is normal and right.....then I don't know what to say. I watch that and I find it disturbing, abusive and yes...it's brainwashing and everyone involved should have charges pressed against them for child abuse!!

This video came from GMA on ABC by the way...if you're hoping the source is not "legitimate." It quite legitimate and quite horrible!!

I don't know why you've anticipated that I would say the source is not valid. I had no intentions on stating such, but if you'd like to have both sides of the conversation for us, by all means go ahead just don't associate my name with it.

The video you've linked won't play for me, but I presume from the title on the page and descriptions there that it is the same one that can be viewed at: www.jesuscampthemovie.com...

Now check this site out because not only does it have the trailer, but it has many accompaniments surrounding it as well a.k.a the whole story. Of great interest to our discussion and according to the question you've decided not to answer...

"The film is a first-ever look into an intense training ground that recruits born-again Christian children to become an active part of America's political future"

Let's talk a little bit about this quote. Notice please that I have underlines it recruits "born-again Christian children" because this makes clear that the children who are going to the camp are already believers. It is not a "brainwashing session" to change children from their own non-Christian viewpoints to the Christian ones, rather is a camp for those who already believe.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Can you say "more sociopathic behavior?"

Dr. Excitable, please expand upon your theory of how positive reinforcement of Christ's words lead to sociopathic behavior.

Originally posted by Tamahu
Yep, "Jesus Camp" obviously utilizes legitimate Black Magic(mind control) in order to turn out psycho-killers for George Bush(Or the Black Lodge rather. One almost wonders if if G.W. Bush is the incarnation of Moloch himself) by taking advantage of the emotions of children.

It has become clear to me you're unfamiliar with legitimate Black Magic.

Originally posted by Tamahu
And the worst part about it, is that it's all in the name of "Jesus".

What has "Jesus Camp" really to do with Jesus anyway?

Not much at all.

When did you attend Jesus Camp Tamahu?

No, I'm not talking about the group that sang "Two Princes", I'm talking about individuals who are attempting to divert the thread from it's original title, which for everyone's review is:

Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

Now I know how excited everyone is about the movie "Jesus Camp" but on ATS we have these things called "individual threads" where you can spend a whole entire thread upon a single topic without trying diversionary tactics to get off-track on some unrelated tanget.

Wanna talk about Jesus Camp? How about going here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If there's nothing more to talk about in "Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?" thread then perhaps it should be closed, but might I say that would be unfair to those who wish to contribute to THE TOPIC in the future. It would be a shame to leave this valuable resource unavailable because of our lack of self-discipline to remain ON TOPIC, that is to say "Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?" . No one clicks on this thread with the expectation of reading about Jesus Camp nor someone's opinion about Christians.

Wanna give your opinions about Christians and "accidently" clicked on this thread? No problem, this thread already exists and please click here: Complaint Box: Christians

I'm interested in hearing more from people about "Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?" should they care to contribute or discuss.


[edit on 5-10-2006 by saint4God]

Is it acceptable to live together when married? Of course it is. Even God feels the same way.

Now regarding this from Saint4:

quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Can you say "more sociopathic behavior?"


answer from Saint4:
Dr. Excitable, please expand upon your theory of how positive reinforcement of Christ's words lead to sociopathic behavior.

Look in the mirror Saint4God.

But beyond that......I don't believe a 5 year old could possibly be a crazed bible thumper that WANTS to go to Jesus Camp and be abused mentally and emotionally and be brainwashed. I just don't see it as a rationally thinking human being!

Peace!!

I'm don't know what your definition of Black Magic is saint4god, but it doesn't have to be harmful formal Ceremonial Magic in order to be black magic.




For example:

Originally posted by saint4God
Let's talk a little bit about this quote. Notice please that I have underlines it recruits "born-again Christian children" because this makes clear that the children who are going to the camp are already believers. It is not a "brainwashing session" to change children from their own non-Christian viewpoints to the Christian ones, rather is a camp for those who already believe.

It is not the believing in Jesus part that I have issue with(and by the way, Being Born Again has not much at all to do with merely believing; it takes Faith and Works).

And I have no problem with anti-abortion campaigns and anti-gay marriage campaigns(though I probably wouldn't take the time to join in on them, even though I see both homosexuality and abortion as black magic).

What I do have a problem with, is people using the name of Jesus in order to turn out soldiers for the Black Lodge's false "War on Terror" and prejudiced attacks against Islam.

These people are working up these kids into an emotional frenzy, and then manipulating that emotional energy as to direct it toward political campaigns that are designed by the Black Lodge.

This is legitimate Black Magic.

Any harmful act is an act of black magic, because the medium that is utilized for any action is the Astral Light, which is the medium that the Magician(whether "White" or "Black") employs for his works, whether it has to do with waving around magic-wands and chanting Mantras or not.

So as long as we still have the ego alive within our psyches, we're basically all black magicians, whether consciously or unconsciously.

But the people who control G.W. Bush and many of the "Christian" churches are much more cunning, than the average ignorant joe who works black magic unconsciously.

Originally posted by saint4God
No, I'm not talking about the group that sang "Two Princes", I'm talking about individuals who are attempting to divert the thread from it's original title, which for everyone's review is:


Is it acceptable to live together when your not married?

Well I've already posted some very significant info regarding this thread-topic on the second page of this thread, but it seems that almost everybody ignored it(ironically I believe it was you who actually did acknowledge it), and simply continued on with the opinions they already had.

But if they don't want to consider what I've posted then that's fine, I'm just saying that I've already contributed to this thread-topic.



But anyway, just thought I'd respond to this thread one last time, as due to circumstance I'll be working three jobs for the next few months.






Regards




[edit on 5-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Is it acceptable to live together when married? Of course it is. Even God feels the same way.

Please provide the support for this opinion.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Look in the mirror Saint4God.

I do at least once a day. It's an important exercise, but nonesomuch as my talking to God about my faults and my desire to overcome them. As we examine our shortcomings, we discover things about ourselves up to but not limited to our motivations, processes, and goals. When they're out of line, it's an important recognition to make a positive change. Resolve to corrective action accompanied with self-discipline generates a progressive spirit. Via God, nothing is impossible.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
But beyond that......I don't believe a 5 year old could possibly be a crazed bible thumper that WANTS to go

I merely quoted the author, that said it is a camp for believers, not a camp for unbelievers. It doesn't matter how much you don't believe, that's what it says.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
to Jesus Camp and be abused mentally and emotionally and be brainwashed.

Please provide support for your accusations that Jesus Camp takes children to "be abused mentally and emotionally and be brainwashed". Certainly I'll accept testimony as a single point of validation.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I just don't see it as a rationally thinking human being!

That certainly could be the case. My suggestion would be to seek you first to understand, slow to speak, quick to think and assess after the most extensive research has been conducted.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Peace!!

Peace be with you as well.

[edit on 10-10-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Tamahu
I'm don't know what your definition of Black Magic is saint4god,

My definition is irrelevant. The actual definition is all that matters.

Originally posted by Tamahu
but it doesn't have to be harmful formal Ceremonial Magic in order to be black magic.

It is not the believing in Jesus part that I have issue with(and by the way, Being Born Again has not much at all to do with merely believing; it takes Faith and Works).

Back up a moment please. Believing is enough to receive the gift of eternal life. For example, the theif on the cross who in a moment was saved before he and Christ died. That theif did no good works afterwards, because salvation could not be earned. I could give away every penny I own to the most needy persons in the world, yet it would not save me. Those who are believers who do good things should be motivated by the want to thank the Lord they serve. They have already received eternal life, the gift already given. The works are the fruits that should flow as a need and desire to continue in righteousness. I can provide support to these statements if wanted. These are not related to black magic. Any student thereof should be able to recognize that, though I'd prefer if they didn't.

Originally posted by Tamahu
And I have no problem with anti-abortion campaigns and anti-gay marriage campaigns(though I probably wouldn't take the time to join in on them, even though I see both homosexuality and abortion as black magic).

This rabbit trail is too far off the topic for me to follow now. There are plenty of threads existing and could be created based on it.

Originally posted by Tamahu
What I do have a problem with, is people using the name of Jesus in order to turn out soldiers for the Black Lodge's false "War on Terror" and prejudiced attacks against Islam.

Again, even further from the topic. I'm sure you have pages of support but would be more appropriate for another thread.

Originally posted by Tamahu
These people are working up these kids into an emotional frenzy, and then manipulating that emotional energy as to direct it toward political campaigns that are designed by the Black Lodge.

You would have to clearly establish these connections in great detail....then call the police. Oh wait! They're in the Black Lodge too, huh? Topic please.

Originally posted by Tamahu
This is legitimate Black Magic.

No it is not.

Originally posted by Tamahu
Any harmful act is an act of black magic,

This is not true.

Originally posted by Tamahu
because the medium that is utilized for any action is the Astral Light, which is the medium that the Magician(whether "White" or "Black") employs for his works, whether it has to do with waving around magic-wands and chanting Mantras or not.

Mantras, chants and imbued items can be tools thereof, but otherwise are not related.

Originally posted by Tamahu
So as long as we still have the ego alive within our psyches, we're basically all black magicians, whether consciously or unconsciously.

Hehe, no.

Originally posted by Tamahu
But the people who control G.W. Bush and many of the "Christian" churches are much more cunning, than the average ignorant joe who works black magic unconsciously.

Black magic is a practice, not an unconscious act.

Originally posted by Tamahu
Well I've already posted some very significant info regarding this thread-topic on the second page of this thread, but it seems that almost everybody ignored it(ironically I believe it was you who actually did acknowledge it), and simply continued on with the opinions they already had.

But if they don't want to consider what I've posted then that's fine, I'm just saying that I've already contributed to this thread-topic.

I've considered it, hence the questions and responses.

Originally posted by Tamahu
But anyway, just thought I'd respond to this thread one last time, as due to circumstance I'll be working three jobs for the next few months.

Whoa, that's the business there. All the best with them, hope they bring great rewards.

quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Is it acceptable to live together when married? Of course it is. Even God feels the same way.

answer: from Saint4God
Please provide the support for this opinion.

Why must I support an opinion? It is not my opinion, however. It is my faith.

Please provide support for your opinion other than by quoting scripture.

Why is it okay with God? Because once again, God made us human. And He accepts everything that comes with it. If two people want to live together before marriage, why would He care? I mean, honestly, what are they doing wrong?

Marriage is something that was created by man, not by God!

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Marriage is something that was created by man, not by God!

Oh?


See if you can see how the following quotes are all in agreement with each other:

True marriage has nothing to do with the social or religious formulisms of this barbaric humanity. - Samael Aun Weor

Hebrews, chapter 13: 4: Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Nocturnal Pollutions


According to Cosmic Laws, when man and woman have sexual relations they become "married" because their energies are unified; this creates a permanent bond.

"And they shall become one flesh."

The Gnostic student respects this law and ceases practicing adultery: having sexual relations with multiple partners. The Gnostic student seeks to develop commitment in the marriage as a reflection of commitment to the Being.

However, it must be understood that the Being is the one who chooses our spouse for us; and there may come karmic or initiatic reasons to take a new spouse. This is highly controversial in the Gnostic Movement because people are victims of their morals (that man and wife should "always be together, forever") and do not comprehend the First and Second Laws (which are explained well in the Karma course on this website).


"Thus let no man put asunder what God has joined."


Only God can put a marriage asunder, according to His command.

Bear in mind that we have had hundreds of marriages throughout our existences and each of them bears recurrent and karmic responsibilities we must answer for. This is why certain masters had more than one partner during their life. However, the initiate remains committed to the one indicated by the Being, and will fight to save any relationship just as he fights to return to his own Innermost. Do not take any sexual connection lightly: every one bears a karmic link. Let us not create more karma for ourselves by sleeping around. This is a terrible karma to bring on oneself, because it can only be paid through pain.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none! (in other words, perform the sexual act, but do not reach the orgasm!)

1 Corinthians, chapter 6:


18: Flee fornication (orgasm or spilling of semen). Every sin that a man does is without the body; but he that commits fornication (in thought, feeling and action) sins against his own body.

19: What? Know you not that your body is the temple of the (creative energy of the) Holy Ghost which is in you (in your sexual glands), which you have of God, and you are not your own?

20: For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


1 Corinthians, chapter 7:

1: Now concerning the things whereof you wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman (if he is going to fornicate or lose his sexual energy, his Holy Ghost, with her).

2: Nevertheless, to avoid fornication (nocturnal pollutions, wet dreams), let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband (and let them learn how to transmute their sexual force or Holy Ghost).

3: Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence (by not inducing her to orgasm): and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4: (During the sexual act) the wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband (that way he will tell her how to proceed during the sexual act): and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5: Defraud you not one the other (from the sexual act), except it be with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come (sexually) together again, that Satan (or ego of Lust) tempt you not for your (sexual) incontinency (with wet dreams).

6: But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

7: For I would that all men were even as I myself (a twice-born). But every man (after the second birth) has his proper gift (or will) of God, one after this manner (Brahmacharya), and another after that (sexual alchemy).

8: I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I (in Brahmacharya).

9: But if they cannot contain (their sexual force in all of the planes because of their lack of scientific chastity, since they are not Twice-Born yet), let them marry (and practice Sexual Alchemy and reach the second birth): for it is better to marry (and teach their bodies how to transmute the sexual force and attain the Mastery) than to burn (in the hell of their own concupiscence).

Oh?

See if you can see how the following quotes are all in agreement with each other:

Nice quotes Tamaflu...but, all written by men....not by God!!

I love the one about whoremongers and adulterers....what is that about? If I was a single man.....would my only choices be to sleep with a whore or a married woman? :shk: What are you talking about?? Do you even know what you are talking about? Why did you even include that pathetic passage??

The Bible was written by men, for men.......

Show me true words of God (which you can't...you can only show me words written by men who say they are the words of God) that say it's wrong to have sex before marriage. Come on, show me.....show me!!!

Right....you can't!!

Originally posted by Seapeople
I have followed my heart, and made my decision. I am just curious as to why her parents who used to love me, now hate me. And also whether or not you think they have any right too.

Seapeople,

You will not go to hell. Because there is none. It was created by the government to scare people away from doing things like sex before marriage. The bible is real though and so is God. But you have to interpret the bible differently than anyone on this site almost does. You have to not look at only the 'Characters' but also the meaning behind it. Especially in Revelations. Which I can't even explain to you the real meaning it's hella hard to explain it.

Anyway, the parents are uspet because you don't express the same moral values that they do. They do not have any right to not let you marry your girlfriend because they can't control what you believe or think. You see Christiantity is the right way to go buddy, but mdern Christians just interpret the bible the WAY wrong way that it is meant to be interpreted and they are too strict and mind controlled by the government.

I hope this helped you man. If not, I shall disappear into a shroud of mist, and never be seen on this thread. While you go about believing what ever you want to believe.

Originally posted by Human Defense
Seapeople,

You will not go to hell. Because there is none. It was created by the government to scare people away from doing things like sex before marriage. The bible is real though and so is God. But you have to interpret the bible differently than anyone on this site almost does. You have to not look at only the 'Characters' but also the meaning behind it. Especially in Revelations. Which I can't even explain to you the real meaning it's hella hard to explain it.

Anyway, the parents are uspet because you don't express the same moral values that they do. They do not have any right to not let you marry your girlfriend because they can't control what you believe or think. You see Christiantity is the right way to go buddy, but mdern Christians just interpret the bible the WAY wrong way that it is meant to be interpreted and they are too strict and mind controlled by the government.
.

So most people interpret the bible the wrong way do they? And you know the right way I presume??? And who learned YOU this right way?



G

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Why must I support an opinion? It is not my opinion, however. It is my faith.

It lends validation, rather than trusting in a person blindly. Surely there are many people of various opinion and faiths. Why would someone trust yours over any other?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Please provide support for your opinion other than by quoting scripture.

I don't think we have the time for those pages of personal history. I have summarized before (including this thread) and will continue to do so.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Why is it okay with God? Because once again, God made us human. And He accepts everything that comes with it. If two people want to live together before marriage, why would He care? I mean, honestly, what are they doing wrong?

Marriage is something that was created by man, not by God!

Sorry you don't have a source for this line of thinking. The source I have is this:

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." - Hebrews 13:4

Now I know how resistant you are to using the Bible, so we can discuss real life examples of benefits of marriage and the detriments of sex before marriage if you like.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by saint4God]