Disabled Pakistani girl may face death penalty for allegedly burning Koran

This is exactly what distresses me about the world we live in.

In this day and age and with the scientific advances and discoveries we have made religion is still given far too much credence, it is truly a disease of the human brain and I despair at the effects it has on the world.

A girl who has already had an unfortunate start in life given the fact that she was born with down syndrome faces the death penalty for doing something as meaningless as damaging a book. I have a brother with down syndrome and I know for a fact that he would not know that damaging a book would enrage so many people.

I know this will offend people but it has to be said. The Koran, like the Bible and the Torah are works of the fiction, they are no more important in all honesty to other works of fiction such as Harry Potter. These books have been used for centuries to control the masses and even now people still believe this rubbish. I know there are religious people here who live by their Bible, fortunately not word for word or they would be killing people with different beliefs as the Bible instructs. The cast iron fact is that there has never and I repeat never been any shred of evidence found that a god exists but people still choose to believe and it completely baffles a logical mind such as my own.

My only hope is that due to the international recognition of this story the girl will be saved, but I assure you that there will be many many more who aren't so fortunate. We have to understand that these people are so indoctrinated by their religion that they would willfully murder a member of their own family if they insulted their god.

It would also be a huge mistake to call this a Muslim problem because Christianity has plenty of blood on it's hands thanks to the crusades and the inquisitions.

I know the answer is that religion has to end but how do you cure a disease that is given to children as soon as they are old enough to understand the simplest of words.

Yet again Radical Islam gets its way, more Shariah controlled stupid people FORCE Police to arrest under the threat of destruction of Christian homes and possible murder.

To even contemplate taking a downs syndrome 11yr old to court and then the death penalty just shows the level of disgusting hatred of human life, females and special needs people that Radical Islam has. Special needs children are both unwanted and badly treated under Radical Islam, even ordinary Islamics feel they are a dishonour to the family.

Sadly Pakistan is a country ruled by those who are most corrupt and not by the government, religion plays a dominant role in what's allowed and what's banned, there's zero logic or sentiment spared on anything, the voice of Radical Islam shouts the loudest and kills the most so its in charge.

I have no doubt this young girl WILL be tried and its very possible the death penalty will be forced on her and you can be sure the Western World will sit and watch and say next to nothing because Obama cannot be seen to be criticising Muslim law no matter how bonkers and barbaric it is. he like many leaders is in bed with Radical Islam and trust me, there's not a lot of sleeping going on!

It would be so much better if the World stood up to the foul intolerance that is Radical Islam but like the fools we are we believe we are 'above' naming and shaming and would rather play diplomatic games around such things.

Radical Islam does not do Politics or diplomacy, it does "what we want goes" and torture and violence..

Maybe the world will 'grow a pair' one day and 'behead' this monster...

100 % agree with you!!

Originally posted by Neph89
reply to post by pause4thought

 

"Well, i know a guy that burned an Harry Potter book, lets drag him and stone to death shall we?"

It sounded ridiculous right? Now, trade "Harry Potter" with "kuran" or "Bible", same thing?

I've never understood the reason why people react this way.

If i'm cold and the only thing that i have with me is a book i will burn it to keep me warn, but if you do this with a kuran and someone finds out, you are dead, just stupid.

I wish religion would end once and for all

reply to post by GafferUK1981

I know there are religious people here who live by their Bible, fortunately not word for word or they would be killing people with different beliefs as the Bible instructs.

Why claim the Bible says the exact opposite to what it actually teaches? I don't want to go off topic, but anyone who has studied it knows that Jesus taught: "My kingdom is not of this world... if my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight..." (John 18:36) He also taught his followers to turn the other cheek if someone strikes them. Non-violence and self-sacrificial love for God and man are the very touch-stone of Christ's teaching.

These books have been used for centuries to control the masses and even now people still believe this rubbish.

The first part of your statement is correct; but it has no bearing on the veracity of the books themselves. The way certain people misuse religion/believers to their own ends is a reflection of how corrupt those people are.

It would also be a huge mistake to call this a Muslim problem because Christianity has plenty of blood on it's hands thanks to the crusades and the inquisitions.

I for one see this not as a Muslim problem, but as a problem of violent extremism. Many Muslims would sincerely agree. As to the crusades, etc., such crimes were not perpetrated by people following Christ's teaching, but by people who were entirely ignorant of the Bible, as outlined in this thread. That was a perfect example of how leaders have used and perverted religion in direct contravention of its plain teaching.

The cast iron fact is that there has never and I repeat never been any shred of evidence found that a god exists but people still choose to believe and it completely baffles a logical mind such as my own.

Has you ever considered the possibility evidence may exist of which you are as yet unaware? I suppose this is on topic inasmuch as you want to understand why some people have such strongly held views; so it might be worth exploring topics such as:

Near-death experiences are real and we have the proof, say scientists

Blind people see during NDEs

and consider what goes on within a single cell of the human body:





(discussed here)

Beyond such evidence that there is more to this life than meets the eye, many people have found truth, insight and wisdom within particular writings/books which have led them to deep faith in God. Again, it is violent extremists who twist what is beautiful into evil intent.

I know the answer is that religion has to end

On the contrary, those who pervert religion and misuse it to their own ends need to be exposed and opposed. The answer to the world's problems is true spirituality.

reply to post by Firefly_


Absolutely spot on, I am up for that.
And film every individual burning possible.
Then post them on Youtube.

I honestly couldn't give a damn if it sparks a major international diplomatic flare-up. At some point something must be said and done in matters such as this. Instead we bite our tongues for fear of breaching somebody's human rights.
What about the rights of this young girl who may- or may not- have burned a few pages of a book. Who cares what book it is? Reading on another newspapers website about the story this morning, one commenter said 'You wouldn't be so forgiving if it was a Bible rather than a Koran though would you?' To which everyone replied 'Yes. Of course we would.'

Religion: Causing War, Misery and Suffering since the beginning of human history. Probably the major impediment in the way of our further evolution.

I know that we are told to respect the customs of other cultures, but I fail to see how there is any possible way of viewing this incident as utterly barbaric.

reply to post by pause4thought


Am I correct in thinking that you have completely disregarded the old testament? The god of the old testament is a very jealous and spiteful god who commands his followers to kill the non believers.

I can understand if you have disregarded the old testament as Science has proved it to be nothing but a joke. We know the earth is older than 6000 years, we know it wasn't created in 6 days, we know dinosaurs existed millions of years before us so how did god create us on the seventh day.

So assuming that you disregard the old testament why should the new testament deserve credence. After all the scriptures were written decades if not centuries after Jesus was supposed to have lived so how can we be sure that they are more than Chinese whispers. If something happened in a city a hundred miles from you do you think you could accurately write down the events 20 years later. I know I couldn't.

Your 'evidence' of god is far too weak to be considered anything more than hopeful. It seems to me that all evidence of god is in the mind but if he created so much why is there no physical evidence.

The logical answer is there is no god and once you realise that fact life is so much better as you're not wasting any time chanting to nothing and you know that life is precious and should be lived now rather than wasted waiting for an afterlife which there is also no proof of. I just can't make that many leaps of faith without evidence.

With all this in mind, you'd think that Muslims should burn a few Bibles as revenge, no?

Why don’t Muslims just react by burning the Bible in return? I’m sure this question must have crossed your mind. What prevents them from committing such a horrible deed? After all they are the extremists. They are the intolerant people. They are the violent and hateful people. But they did not and never will. Do you know why?

The answer to this question might be the only good that came out of this horrid and profane issue. The answer is so simple but yet so fundamental to a better understanding of Islam. The understanding or rather the misunderstanding that goes back to the medieval crusades.

In the eleventh century the crusades began and lasted for two hundred years in trying to rid the holy land of Jerusalem of the barbaric Muslims whom they were told desecrated the Christian sanctuaries in the holy city. Ironically it took the Arabs 70 years to figure out why they were engaged in a war with the Europeans. The Muslims were only defending their homeland against an outward aggression. That much they knew. When they were finally oriented with the true reasons behind the crusades they were more perplexed simply because they never did any harm to the Christian sites anywhere, let alone the city of Jerusalem. It took the kings of Europe and the pope in Rome 2oo years to grow up to the fact that Jerusalem was equally sacred to Muslims.

Jesus Christ and mother Mary are considered holy and highly revered by every Muslim. This is the missing link here. Westerners should know that Islam is not some local cult like Buddhism or Hinduism which i personally respect. It is a universal faith stemming from the same origins of the Judeo-Christian faith which along with Islam are recognized as Abrahamic religions. so, burning the Quran would be like consequently throwing the Bible and Torah in the same bonfire. This is mainly why Muslims cannot retaliate against burning al Quran by burning any copy of the Bible because Islam decrees that Muslims should respect and honor the Bible and Torah as well.

Why muslims dare not burn the bible in return

Personally? She has Down's Syndrome, so would ask her parents to try and make sure she doesn't do anything like that again in the interests of the wider community.

But at the same time, those who can't control their feelings feel compelled to act for some reason, maybe because of pride, or that they're expected to do something by society when they're not.

I think people just need to calm down generally. There's no need to prove anything to anyone. It's your faith, just follow it regardless of what anyone thinks or does, especially a little girl that probably doesn't understand the consequences of her actions.

I don't even begin to understand how a discussion of religions has come up.

Here is the case, a mentally disabled child has been most likely set up by her neighbors who want to victimize her.

But if any child, or adult, takes any book, and burns it, even if they do it with intent to make a statement on religion or to offend someone.

Its paper. They're a flesh and blood person. Only the most evil despicable control freak would ever think of harming or killing a flesh and blood person over anything like that.

The correct response if you see somone burning paper, depends on the situation. Is it a homeless person who just happens to be burning your bible to keep warm. If its in your power to assist them, food, warmth, sleeping bag, shelter, please do so.

Is it a person who is on a rant and burning a religious document intentionally, but isn't an immediate threat to you, and you seek within and are inspired to ask them, Do they need to share anything, have they gone through some bad experience due to religion. Do not do this when someone is in a state of aggitation, but, being human and helping the other share and get things off his/her chest, is a good thing.

It is not a criminal act to burn paper. Any law that would make it a criminal act is UNLAWFUL. People count, paper is paper.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

Am I correct in thinking that you have completely disregarded the old testament? The god of the old testament is a very jealous and spiteful god who commands his followers to kill the non believers.

That takes things off topic, TBH. Suffice it to say jealousy can be good and healthy when it relates to people you love, and the specific people God told the Jewish nation to destroy at a specific point in ancient history were so perverse, vile and amoral (in their whole way of life) that he had decided they were to be replaced by a nation that had the highest moral standards at its heart. (And in time the Jewish nation fell into the same pattern of life as those they had replaced, which is when God sent the Messiah to bring light to every nation, as foretold in the Old Testament prophetic writings.)

As for the question of human origins there are various views and interpretations, but this isn't the appropriate forum to discuss them. (Forgive me.)

After all the scriptures were written decades if not centuries after Jesus was supposed to have lived so how can we be sure that they are more than Chinese whispers.

That is a perfectly reasonable question. I can only refer you to my answer to such questions here.

It seems to me that all evidence of god is in the mind but if he created so much why is there no physical evidence.

On the contrary. I and many others base their faith on the astonishing fulfilment of prophetic writings centuries, even millennia after they were written down, taking this as concrete evidence of the intervention of One outside the limits of this existence into our world for the purpose of self-revelation. It is evidence-based.

If faith in a God whose highest concern is that we should know him, love him, and love our fellow human beings has been a means by which some have abused and exploited others, it serves to reveal the utter corruption of such people.

-----------------

I can only repeat, it is violent, hate-filled people who have called for this disabled child to be prosecuted under the full force of a law which many Muslims themselves disapprove of. The behaviour of this vigilante mob goes against all that is holy rather than reflecting it.

Do these halfwits really think God(Allah) gives a crap about some wee girl burning a book? LoL If there God is so great then why are his levels of compassion and forgiveness only on par with us Monkeys???

reply to post by pause4thought


I'm sorry for going off topic but I think you are confusing evidence with desire. The Bible cannot seriously be called evidence. If anything it is a book of fables but it's not real.

Originally posted by dawnstar

side question here....what do they do with all those korans after they have outworn their use?? do they have a mansion that they store them in, or is there a proper way to dispose of them???

I can assure you that Muslims take great care of their holy book so they are made with quality and kept in tiptop condition. Hope that answers your question.

WTF.
I've seen some replies in this thread that actually imply that this is wrong only because the girl is disabled or not.
WHAT THE HELL.

Assuming she's perfectly okay - not disabled, not illiterate, and even if she did it on purpose with intent..
We're talking about a friggin child! Why would a child, 11 old, be sentenced to death for burning a book?

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


Because some people can be really messed up and kill someone in the name of religion for their own personal means.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Bible burning itself isn't the issue. It's the fetishisation of inanimate objects that's the issue.

Sorry, I missed the part of the OP that outlined this as being 'the' issue.
You've covered it, so I guess the thread is dead.

Move along folks, nothing else to discuss here.

Sarcasm or stereotypes? On tonight's show, we discuss which is worse!

Bible burning wouldn't be the issue as it's about the Koran. The Koran is a book made up of nothing more than wood-pulp and ink, exactly the same as the bible. In that sense, it's no different from the bible or Darwin's origin of the species or the Yellow Pages. What makes a book 'special' is the attachment to it. Another poster mentioned the constitution. The actual object is just paper with ink on it. Nothing special at all. Paper with ink on it is burned and even shat on, every day. So what makes me #ting on the actual constitution or burning it any different from doing that to any other piece of paper, or any other inanimate object? It's what the thing represents and the fetishisation of it.

Muslims go bonkers over the mistreatment of the Koran because of the fetishisation of it. The meaning and privilege they attach to an other-wise mundane inanimate object. The same thing happens with American flags, the written constitution and so on.

It's not a hard concept to follow.

I have no argument with your statement regarding 'fetishisation'.
I have a problem with your statement that it is 'the' issue.
I think there is a lot more to discuss than what you have characterized as 'the' issue.

Well, if it's not the issue, tell me what the issue is.

As far as the story goes, young girl who may or not have Downs is meant to burn the Koran in an ostensibly Muslim country. There's not many elements to this story. What's motivating the response of the Muslims is what the Koran means to the mob (the mob that only exists because of a unified response)? The motivation is the fetishisation of a collection of papers that have printed words on them.

If there's anything I'm missing - which you seem to think I am - then tell me.

Originally posted by yuppa

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by yuppa

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I don't believe any of this. Islam is the religion of peace and all this is lies.

Anyway, Marvin Wilson has stopped replying to my PrisonPal letters. I hope nothings happened to him whilst he's in that Texas prison.

Of course you do not believe it. Islam IS a religion of peace...BUT they fail to mention that it is PEACE for all Muslims after establishing a global caliphate. SO technically its not a Lie but its one of Omission.

PRO-TIP: Once you've finished watching your V for Vendetta DVD for the 30th time, google "sarcasm".

Here's a tip. Learn to troll harder Oh wait...Nevermind I'll just ignore you from now on how about that? You didnt argue the point though and did the typical move of trying to Irritate someone with a differing opinion. My point still stands above. But since you cant have a conversation without insulting someone you get no more from me.

PRO-TIP: don't confuse sarcasm with trolling. There's plenty of people that have employed sarcasm in this thread, I don't see anyone else being accused of trolling. Maybe it's just because you don't like what I have to say and so it's easier to whinge about trolling?

I have argued the point, in all my posts throughout this thread. Even the one that quite a few people have taken my sarcasm seriously have all ignored the rather serious point I was making in the other half of that post: America has no qualms executing people with impairments so any 'oh noes, they're gonna kill a disabled' is a bit rich.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
The US executes juveniles all the time

1944;

Current day;

All of the 22 executed individuals were males. Twenty-one of them were age 17 when the crime occurred; one, Sean Sellers (executed on February 4, 1999, in Oklahoma), was 16 years old when he murdered his mother, stepfather, and a store clerk.

en.wikipedia.org...

and the mentally retarded

[

We also sentence juveniles to life in prison

Lionel Tate, the 14-year-old boy who said he was imitating professional wrestlers when he killed his 6-year-old playmate, was sentenced today to life in prison without parole.

abcnews.go.com...

edit on 20-8-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

You know what? I made this same point very, very early in the thread. It got ignored in the stampede to defend America and call me a troll.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Are you seriously not seeing the difference between a death penalty for a murder, and a death penalty for burning a book?
As minor as these kids are, they have done some horrible things. Most if not all of them have killed more than one person cold blooded, some even raped them before or after. Not to mention they were all executed as adults, if it matters anything.
Comparing burning a book to raping a girl then killing her and her boyfriend is absolutely downright retarded, and quite frankly it reeks of anti-US bias and plenty of other stuff that I can't be assed to accuse you without any evidence.


Putting that aside, death penalties shouldn't be the answer. Life-long imprisonment under harsh terms is not only harsher, but less morally conflicting.

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Are you seriously not seeing the difference between a death penalty for a murder, and a death penalty for burning a book?

Of course I can see the differences. However I can also see the commonalities here too. Is it a problem to take in the broader picture?

Putting that aside, death penalties shouldn't be the answer. Life-long imprisonment under harsh terms is not only harsher, but less morally conflicting.

I won't be drawn on a 'death penalty' argument. We won't change each others minds, so there's no point.