VEGAN for 3.5 Months. Massive hair loss.

Originally posted by Tripple_Helix

I'm thinking of adding free range eggs and maybe goats milk. Although I know many people will give me so much flak for it.

edit on 14-6-2012 by Tripple_Helix because: (no reason given)

Hey. Obviously your health is being compromised here, as evidenced by the hair loss and other symptoms I am sure you are experiencing. Why do you give two squirts who will "give you flak" for taking charge of your own health and doing what is right for you? I too, experimented with being a vegan years ago, and I lasted about 4.5 months before I literally started to DREAM of meat because my body was so malnourished. And, like you, I ate a very complex array of foods, all of which I still consume as a matter of fact, but I also eat meat of all sorts. Anyway those foods are: whole grains, peas, beans, nut butters, raw nuts, vegetable protein, coconut oil, flax oil, seeds, green leafy veggies, root vegetables, teas, miso, buckwheat noodles, all types of fruits, sprouts, raw juices, chlorella and spirulina, red algae, seaweeds...and I know I am missing many things here, but you get the ultimate point.

Anyway, on top of that, I was taking a top of the line nutritional supplement and I still suffered from malaise, irritability, confusion, weakness, pale skin (which does not look good at all on someone with a very Asian yellowish-cafe au lait skin color), hair loss/refusal to grow and shedding in clumps and I also started to get spots on my once clear skin. I am a reformed meat-a-holic and I won't be persuaded by these popular vegan "arguments" because they aren't really based in any type of logic. It's all emotionally charged save the animals, reduce your carbon footprint rhetoric that is not serving the best needs of the *average* human. I bet there are some humans that do indeed thrive on a diet with minimal animal products, but I would like for vegans to show me one wild human (tribal) group still untouched by western foolishness, that does not celebrate the hunt and the feast that comes from it. They may be grateful for the gathered vegetables and tubers to nourish day to day, but the meat is always relished.

I can't take hardcore vegans seriously anymore than I can take any other brand of fundamentalist. As with all things, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle...and you get that from the varied diet, that the human omnivore is designed to eat. Oh, I also lost about 15 permanent pounds after ditching my little experiment and coming back to proper eating after I did a little research. Eggs are very good for you, WHOLE eggs that is, not that egg white mess. Fat is also good for you in moderation. I am living proof. I eat fatty meat, eggs and fish nearly every day of the week (in rotation) and I am 5'10 and 132 lbs. Up and down. Lean and mean. I exercise by simply walking 2-10 miles every other day or so, depends on how I feel, but I can go forever if I have to. My hair is long and healthy and my skin is vibrant and glowing. Not trying to sell you, just been there myself and I hope you bounce back. No dietary dogma is worth your loss of health.

Good luck to you, and I'm wishing you well.

stop taking supplements of any kind. supplements are like garbage to your body, your only hurting your body by taking vitamins and minerals in pill form. Take it naturally. Make sure the food you consume is properly washed and cooked. My mom few months back started getting this horrible rash that spread all over her body. Doctors gave her so many antibiotics, skin lotion to take, nothing worked. I asked my mom what kind pills is taking, she said calcium and other pills that doctor gave me. I told her to stop taking calcium pills, and whoa skin turning normal again. This pills are drugs, so dont get fooled, eat natrual food and be healthy. good luck friend.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
I never understood vegans, no offense. Eating meat is part of the cycle of life. Think about it...if a cow could eat us and were the dominant species it would /quote]

IMO without tools and whatnot, a person could never take down a cow. Fish, egg, maybe a bird if your quick enough... Personally I'm imagining a proboxer and a bull right now.

edit on 14-6-2012 by FourSight because: I'm dumb

Originally posted by biggmoneyme

film yourself doing it lol. shoot a deer go up to it and take a bite out. I will send you a grand. swear to god i will. you can even use your hands bc nature provided those, but no knives

and you have to enjoy it. because if its so natural why wouldnt you?

Can you show me evidence of a vegan tribal society anywhere in human history? Please, no links to new age vegan communes where they are living out on their 750 acre estate "roughing" it with weekly trips to whole foods to cop more quinoa and hemp seed flour. Also, did you know that there *are* human groups/cultures that eat raw meat and drink animal blood? The Masai, Inuit, Tlingit, Apache, Comanche, Sioux and many others have history of eating raw meat or still do consume it. Eskimo groups consider raw (and rotten) fish a delicacy. Sushi? Sashimi? I must admit though, I have dressed my fair share of deer and elk with my husband, and even though the smell and sight of the raw meat does make me get this primal urge to take a good chunk out of it then and there like a hungry wolf, I err on the side of good sense and at least lightly cook it first. And yes, I do enjoy red meat of all sorts cooked rare. No seasoning is really necessary outside of a little salt and pepper.

As I have said in so many of these threads, not all people are the same. Some people NEED meat. Some people cant process it.

I have two things to say to the op:

#1)You are probably celiac. I doubt its the lack of meat that is getting you, but rather, the over-abundance of gluten.

#2)Research blood type diets. You will get a much clearer view on what is right for you.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

#1)You are probably celiac. I doubt its the lack of meat that is getting you, but rather, the over-abundance of gluten.

I think so too. I mentioned this earlier. However, it is going to be very difficult for a Celiac to be a vegetarian.

reply to post by HoppedUp


I'm still trying to figure out how I can get a video of myself chowing down on a hind quarter of a deer without breaking a law or getting sick. I have no problem doing it, but there are some logistics involved.

I love a good rare steak too! Just sear the two sides and salt it a little bit, and that is how a steak was intended to be enjoyed!

Originally posted by Tripple_Helix
It started as a medical reason, although I have never been a real big meat eater. I cut out all dairy, eggs, fish, poultry & meat. It has now turned into a moral issue for me.

A little while back, my hair started to fall out. I thought it was just an after effect of the anesthesia, or so people told me. Now I'm not so sure. If I can give you an indication of how much hair is falling out- If I roll it into a tight ball, it's a little bit smaller than a tennis ball... slightly larger than a golf ball. Now, it doesn't stop in the shower. All day long if I put my hands through my hair, about 10 strands come out each time.

It has also taken over 3 weeks for my nails to grow 2mm and some are splitting apart horizontally, yet, they are very hard and strong.

I will never go back to eating meat. But dairy and eggs? I don't know... I know the dairy industry is just as bad as the meat industry and I don't want to support it. And from everything I've heard and read about dairy, animal protein and cancer, I'm not too sure I want to go down that path.

I really do eat a balanced vegan diet. Lots of fruits, veggies at night, whole grains like rice and quinoa. Olive oil, coconut oil. I get protein from beans like soy, chickpeas etc.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
I also do occasionally take a B12 supplement, which comes from plant extracts.

I can't even imagine eating a little chicken egg... but I crave it. After 3 months though?! Should cravings not be gone by now?

So, I'm in a catch 22 here. There are people just waiting for me to fail at this and I would hate to prove them right. I want to eat in an ethical and kind way. But I also don't want to feel like I have failed, and make myself even more sick at the same time.

I have major stomach issues as well, so I am also gluten free since a week ago... Talk about cutting out major food groups.

Anyone with advice?

PS:

My nails used to grow at such a rapid rate that I could not have my nails done because they just grew too fast. Those nails normally last a woman about 2-3 weeks, mine lasted a week. So I'd say they grew about a cm per week and a half.

edit on 14-6-2012 by Tripple_Helix because: (no reason given)

I was a vegan for 4 years. Vegetarian for about 8. Sounds to me like you might need to eat more coconut oil for saturated fat. It's a good thing. Get into avocado too, more seeds. You may be anemic. Lack of iron. So eat lots more lentils, beans, pumpkin seeds. Stay on the b12. 1000mcg a day and not the cyanide based b12. Don't just assume your diet is working and healthy. If you are losing hair something is lacking. Go get tested for anemia and b12 deficiency. If you are deficient you likely feel very tired most of the time.

btw eggs aren't the product of a potential chick that will never be. They are chicken periods. Maybe gross but not really inhumane in the way you might be assuming.

Originally posted by HoppedUp

Originally posted by biggmoneyme

film yourself doing it lol. shoot a deer go up to it and take a bite out. I will send you a grand. swear to god i will. you can even use your hands bc nature provided those, but no knives

and you have to enjoy it. because if its so natural why wouldnt you?

Can you show me evidence of a vegan tribal society anywhere in human history? Please, no links to new age vegan communes where they are living out on their 750 acre estate "roughing" it with weekly trips to whole foods to cop more quinoa and hemp seed flour. Also, did you know that there *are* human groups/cultures that eat raw meat and drink animal blood? The Masai, Inuit, Tlingit, Apache, Comanche, Sioux and many others have history of eating raw meat or still do consume it. Eskimo groups consider raw (and rotten) fish a delicacy. Sushi? Sashimi? I must admit though, I have dressed my fair share of deer and elk with my husband, and even though the smell and sight of the raw meat does make me get this primal urge to take a good chunk out of it then and there like a hungry wolf, I err on the side of good sense and at least lightly cook it first. And yes, I do enjoy red meat of all sorts cooked rare. No seasoning is really necessary outside of a little salt and pepper.

Show me an tribal society that ate your diet. The meat and # you eat is as foreign to prehistoric man as any vegan diet.

A tribal society that was vegan would be one that was vegan out of necessity.. ie: no other food source. And i'm sure they existed at least temporarily until the fresh liver of a healthy rat was found.

Originally posted by storm2012
stop taking supplements of any kind. supplements are like garbage to your body, your only hurting your body by taking vitamins and minerals in pill form. Take it naturally. Make sure the food you consume is properly washed and cooked. My mom few months back started getting this horrible rash that spread all over her body. Doctors gave her so many antibiotics, skin lotion to take, nothing worked. I asked my mom what kind pills is taking, she said calcium and other pills that doctor gave me. I told her to stop taking calcium pills, and whoa skin turning normal again. This pills are drugs, so dont get fooled, eat natrual food and be healthy. good luck friend.

edit on 14-6-2012 by storm2012 because: (no reason given)

Food is a drug as well. If your food is packaged or comes from a farm you don't know about then it's an unknown food source just like any vitamin or supplement.

Yes supplements can be dangerous and unhealthy.. but you are at no more risk consuming them then you are eating unknown/untrusted foods from a restaurant, supermarket etc.

I would not give up dairy. And try to get farm fresh dairy. But if you can't take K2 and ortho bone supplements, organic and non radiated, and also organic eggs and if you ever go back to some meat, then chicken livers. And with that, the fatty vitamins of D, E, A, and B's. In fact after talkign about this in depth with someone I got this:

Advanced b complex, vegi caps, 602 mg, and ortho bone 202 mg, with extra k2. They take out all the essential nutrients in the foods and then sell them back to you in health products now. And even then mostly a rip off, and you need to find the best sources no radiation and organic.

What is missing is essential for your bones and teeth, and possibly affecting nails and hair too, also your whole immune system.

Now another thing can be the radiation itself, we're getting quite an increase. So iodine, trophic 3 drops a day say, the other vitamins, C, and D, and p'audarco tea for detox, also look for things that detox from radiation and consider a quality osmosis water filter.

reply to post by rwfresh

The meat and # you eat is as foreign to prehistoric man as any vegan diet.

Really? The Native Americans planted native vegetables and foraged for fruits and hunted the same animals I eat. Sure, they didn't have drive-up windows, but I don't eat at drive-up windows, I eat meat from local butchers that killed local animals. I eat a lot from my own garden or gardens of my friends.

Sure, I don't stick to it 100% of the time, but I'm trying to. I am trying to not eat anything out of season or anything that has to be shipped across the globe.

I'd say my diet is pretty damn close to what the Natives here would have eaten. I even take care to try and buy "Heritage" seeds so my plants are not GMO.

Originally posted by Daemonicon
reply to post by biggmoneyme

 

Look at the teeth of a human.

Front teeth for ripping, and the back teeth for grinding. You don't need the front teeth for eating a salad. If we were meant to be vegetarians, our teeth would be in an entirely different layout.

Have you taken a look at Gorilla's teeth? www.mtv.ca... I wonder if they are vegan because of a lifestyle choice..

I'm not trying to sound alarming but intense hair loss can be a symptom of a thyroid problem. Have you had this checked out by a doctor?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by rwfresh

 

The meat and # you eat is as foreign to prehistoric man as any vegan diet.

Really? The Native Americans planted native vegetables and foraged for fruits and hunted the same animals I eat. Sure, they didn't have drive-up windows, but I don't eat at drive-up windows, I eat meat from local butchers that killed local animals. I eat a lot from my own garden or gardens of my friends.

Sure, I don't stick to it 100% of the time, but I'm trying to. I am trying to not eat anything out of season or anything that has to be shipped across the globe.

I'd say my diet is pretty damn close to what the Natives here would have eaten. I even take care to try and buy "Heritage" seeds so my plants are not GMO.

From a person who said "Tofu is primarily wheat"...

Native Americans did not eat the same animals you eat. Unless you are eating wild bison, raccoon, rabbit.. And unless you are eating primarily the organs and FAT and throwing away the lean mean I'd say you are DEFINITELY not eating the same meat. Not even close. You are likely eating poisoned mutant beef and chicken like the rest of us.

Here is my point. Supplements CAN be dangerous. But there is no more inherent danger in them than anything else you are cramming in your hole. They can also be life absolutely life saving. Sure, if i had my choice i would be eating wild game and 100% wild fruits, nuts, veg, greens from nutrient rich untainted soil. Not going to happen. Kudos to you for eating locally grown meat and veg. But supplements aren't anymore dangerous than food. They CAN be and so can locally grown meat and veg.

Originally posted by rwfresh

Show me an tribal society that ate your diet. The meat and # you eat is as foreign to prehistoric man as any vegan diet.

A tribal society that was vegan would be one that was vegan out of necessity.. ie: no other food source. And i'm sure they existed at least temporarily until the fresh liver of a healthy rat was found.

Why do vegans get so emo over this topic? Cussing? Man really? Just because I eat differently than you, I have to be eating excrement? I'm quite sure most ancient and tribal men (and ladies) of today ate or are eating "my" diet. It's simple. Meat (believe it or not,mostly game this year. Husband is a good hunter), eggs, fish, vegetables, fruits. I'm not a fan of bread or processed grains so I tend to avoid them. I fail to see the bad here. Not all omni's and meat eaters are drooling tards hanging out waiting for McD's to start slinging cow patties at 11 am. Some of us eat the meat the way it comes off the animal, and that is not crap. That's good eating.

Needless to say, I doubt natives threw out the lean meat. Why on earth would anyone do such a thing? Do you have links to this? I have several native American recipes for jerky, from different tribes and they all use fat and lean meat from the animal. Lean meat is much easier to cure and dry than organ meat...which was usually prepared and consumed soon after the hunt was over. Where did you get that from, that ancients/natives threw away the lean? And eating rat liver? What's that, like enough meat to equate to a kidney bean in size? Can't take you seriously dude.

Who the hell cares if you eat meat or not if you are having health problems? And think about that one for a bit...if it is a true friend even a vegan friend they should understand, if not are they really needed in your life?

I eat very little meat but I need eggs and dairy so as not to become anemic, which I had and it sucked!!!

I believe we are meant to be omnivores but sparingly and not in the way most people eat (Steak heavy or little or no veggies).

Get a chicken I have had them they are fun and the eggs are oh so yummy this way! Fresh, wholesome and you have a crazy little bird friend who helps keep bugs out of your yard and make a healthy garden and they feed you but oddly don't seem to care about the eggs so much...

Eat and be happy!

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Within apes and chimps, as far as I know, meat is a delicacy. They, like we, are able to digest meat, but it's by no means a staple in their diet. In the same sense, our physiology resembles that of an herbivore more than a carnivore or omnivore. While we can eat meat, by nature we'd survive primarily on fruits, and berries. Think about it, human's aren't exactly predatory animals. We don't have large, powerful jaws decked with sharp teeth, we're not that fast, we don't have sharp claws; we have the most developed brain of any species on earth, but that's about all that we have going for us. In hand to hand combat we can hardly take on any animal our own size.

reply to post by rwfresh


Fair enough, I didn't elaborate much on my earlier statement. If you are eating real Tofu then it isn't wheat, but an awful lot of tofu does contain wheat gluten because it is cheaper. Even Taco Bell "beef" contains wheat gluten. You can't trust what you buy or eat these days.

I do love to eat rabbit, and I've been considering raising them, but right now I'm focusing on my new chickens. I also love to eat deer and wild hog, and I do eat a good bit of Bison. I also eat plenty of beef, and the Native Americans wouldn't have had that, but I eat the organic, local beef, so I figure it is close enough.

No, I don't eat the organ meat normally (although I used to when I was anemic), but these days I don't need to. I'm privileged to live in modern times and it isn't necessary for me to eat they way they eat, my diet is more readily available, but that wasn't the point.

The point was that a person eating a healthy, organic, well-rounded diet is much closer to the native americans than someone trying to eat a vegan diet. A vegan diet is not at all natural and would not have been sufficient to support ancient cultures.

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


I recommend talking to a dietitian.
Also I'd talk to my doctor about it.

Something is definitely out of whack.