VEGAN for 3.5 Months. Massive hair loss.

Originally posted by HoppedUp

Originally posted by rwfresh

Show me an tribal society that ate your diet. The meat and # you eat is as foreign to prehistoric man as any vegan diet.

A tribal society that was vegan would be one that was vegan out of necessity.. ie: no other food source. And i'm sure they existed at least temporarily until the fresh liver of a healthy rat was found.

Why do vegans get so emo over this topic? Cussing? Man really? Just because I eat differently than you, I have to be eating excrement? I'm quite sure most ancient and tribal men (and ladies) of today ate or are eating "my" diet. It's simple. Meat (believe it or not,mostly game this year. Husband is a good hunter), eggs, fish, vegetables, fruits. I'm not a fan of bread or processed grains so I tend to avoid them. I fail to see the bad here. Not all omni's and meat eaters are drooling tards hanging out waiting for McD's to start slinging cow patties at 11 am. Some of us eat the meat the way it comes off the animal, and that is not crap. That's good eating.

Needless to say, I doubt natives threw out the lean meat. Why on earth would anyone do such a thing? Do you have links to this? I have several native American recipes for jerky, from different tribes and they all use fat and lean meat from the animal. Lean meat is much easier to cure and dry than organ meat...which was usually prepared and consumed soon after the hunt was over. Where did you get that from, that ancients/natives threw away the lean? And eating rat liver? What's that, like enough meat to equate to a kidney bean in size? Can't take you seriously dude.

edit on 14-6-2012 by HoppedUp because: added comment

You mad bro? haha. I'm not a vegan. Was. No i don't have links but google should help you. Lean meat was the last thing to be eaten. And in times of plenty was thrown to the dogs. Organ meat, brains, eyes and the fattiest cuts were eaten first.. likely in that order, because of their superior nutritional value. Eat whatever you want.. i could care less. No need to convince me that your diet is a native person's diet or superior. My post is to point out the obvious. No need to get "emo".

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by rwfresh

 

Fair enough, I didn't elaborate much on my earlier statement. If you are eating real Tofu then it isn't wheat, but an awful lot of tofu does contain wheat gluten because it is cheaper. Even Taco Bell "beef" contains wheat gluten. You can't trust what you buy or eat these days.

I do love to eat rabbit, and I've been considering raising them, but right now I'm focusing on my new chickens. I also love to eat deer and wild hog, and I do eat a good bit of Bison. I also eat plenty of beef, and the Native Americans wouldn't have had that, but I eat the organic, local beef, so I figure it is close enough.

No, I don't eat the organ meat normally (although I used to when I was anemic), but these days I don't need to. I'm privileged to live in modern times and it isn't necessary for me to eat they way they eat, my diet is more readily available, but that wasn't the point.

The point was that a person eating a healthy, organic, well-rounded diet is much closer to the native americans than someone trying to eat a vegan diet. A vegan diet is not at all natural and would not have been sufficient to support ancient cultures.

And my point is a person eating wild, gathered, true vegan paleo is potentially closer to some native diets than an omnivore who shops at Whole Foods. But i get your point.

Soybeans are cheap. Really cheap. So I'm not sure why anyone would bother selling tofu made of wheat protein. In fact i am sure no one is. Doesn't mean people aren't mistakenly confusing "veggie" meat (labelled products) made from gluten with tofu. Tofu is an actual food product made from soybeans and is cheap.

PEace PEACE PEACE. Eat well.

Originally posted by rwfresh

You mad bro? haha. I'm not a vegan. Was. No i don't have links but google should help you. Lean meat was the last thing to be eaten. And in times of plenty was thrown to the dogs. Organ meat, brains, eyes and the fattiest cuts were eaten first.. likely in that order, because of their superior nutritional value. Eat whatever you want.. i could care less. No need to convince me that your diet is a native person's diet or superior. My post is to point out the obvious. No need to get "emo".

No, "bro", I'm not mad. Quite frankly, just confused at this point in our exchange. I guess you are the type that enjoys being super wishy-washy on any set of topics to provoke an argument any which way. Duly noted. Also noted, first you claimed, that all natives threw out the lean meat. Now you come back and claim "it was the last to be eaten" well then, which is it? I have actually done my own personal research and I know where I stand on this topic and I consider myself adequately versed in the standard diet of early and primitive man (to include tribal societies still existing) and vegan/vegetarian ain't it. Insects, fish, reptiles, small mammals, vegetables, fruits and tubers comprise the majority of the diets of most tribal people. Those touched by the western world may eat grains and rice. Occasionally, large game is taken. These are feasts and the hunters that made them happen are usually celebrated. Why aren't the leaves and tubers celebrated? I grant you that most of their diet is not sirloin, but I see no value in kidding yourself or being daft to make some nebulous point.

reply to post by Tripple_Helix

The hair loss sounds like it could be Telogen Effluvium, it is normally brought on by metabolic, hormonal stress or diet changes. I've been through it 3 times in 10 years. It is kind of tricky in the fact the hair loss begins a few months after the stresser. Your description of the hair loss I could have wrote myself a few months after I was diagnosed with type1 diabetes. Unfortunately if it is TE it has to run it's course before new hair growth will begin.

If you want to read more about it. emedicine.medscape.com...

If you can, have your thyroid checked. Not just TSH, but T3 & T4 levels and if you can, talk the doctor into it the antibody test also. Sometimes TSH is near normal, but antibodies are off the scale and will indicate the problem before the TSH test will.

Good luck and I hope you find the cause soon!
OiO

Originally posted by HoppedUp

Originally posted by rwfresh

You mad bro? haha. I'm not a vegan. Was. No i don't have links but google should help you. Lean meat was the last thing to be eaten. And in times of plenty was thrown to the dogs. Organ meat, brains, eyes and the fattiest cuts were eaten first.. likely in that order, because of their superior nutritional value. Eat whatever you want.. i could care less. No need to convince me that your diet is a native person's diet or superior. My post is to point out the obvious. No need to get "emo".

No, "bro", I'm not mad. Quite frankly, just confused at this point in our exchange. I guess you are the type that enjoys being super wishy-washy on any set of topics to provoke an argument any which way. Duly noted. Also noted, first you claimed, that all natives threw out the lean meat. Now you come back and claim "it was the last to be eaten" well then, which is it? I have actually done my own personal research and I know where I stand on this topic and I consider myself adequately versed in the standard diet of early and primitive man (to include tribal societies still existing) and vegan/vegetarian ain't it. Insects, fish, reptiles, small mammals, vegetables, fruits and tubers comprise the majority of the diets of most tribal people. Those touched by the western world may eat grains and rice. Occasionally, large game is taken. These are feasts and the hunters that made them happen are usually celebrated. Why aren't the leaves and tubers celebrated? I grant you that most of their diet is not sirloin, but I see no value in kidding yourself or being daft to make some nebulous point.

All the posts are right there for us to review. You were asking for reference to a native people/society that ate a vegan diet. Correct? You asked for this as proof that a diet you associate with your own is "superior" right? Unless you were just asking for a joke or some other non-understandable reason. I stated, truthfully, that your OWN diet was nowhere closer to a native diet than a vegan diet. I also gave a real world example of a primitive vegan diet. One where any number of native people's had to resort for any length of time to a strictly vegan diet out of necessity. You can act all confused if you want. But most native cultures didn't have a whole foods around the corner so they ate what was available. Insects, ANY non-poisonous plants, nuts, veg, animals, fish etc. Sometimes together, sometimes long periods of a single food that was available. They also didn't track their macros and eat 5 set meals a day.. right?

Good work on the research. Keep researching and you will find that every possible diet (excluding the current modern diet) was explored and expressed by native people around the world. And if we are talking about North American native people's i can tell you that yes, lean meat was the last to be eaten. And only eaten out of necessity. There were no native's CHOOSING lean meat over a heart, liver or a big chunk of fat. Guaranteed. 10 second google encounter will back this up.

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


OK! I have not read any comments other than your initial one. I can help you. I can tell you this, first of all your body craves what you need...you craving an egg, stop punishing yourself and eat cage free eggs! You need protein, your body is craving protein.
Eat a very small handful of almonds every day, eat avocadoes, 1/2 of one a day for a week(till you feel good, anyway), eat oatmeal in the morning with flax seed, drink Almond milk-you need a good diet plan. I can help you if you like. You can u2u me. I know you may not even read my note here because of all the other replies-so I will u2u you to tell you I put this note right here!
I eat cage free chickens too. But looky here, you and all others afraid of killing things to eat them forget we kill plant life to eat it! ok, so stop pressuring yourself to eat this moral compass menu that is no good for your body. we are not all created equal! What do I mean by that? What one diet works for one may not be what your genetics, your human type needs to survive and live healthy.

reply to post by MoEskiMo


one more thing here: who gives a rats booty about who thinks what? Seriously, you say you will get flak? Over what? Choosing to nurture your body? Somebody better put their big britches on and remember you were born alone, you will die alone, and nobody's opinions are going to put you in any spot you did not let them.
and to anyone trying to sound like vegan's are superior! You are showing your rediculousness. If total vegan or vegetarian works for you, great! But leave any slamming outside the posting.

If the idea of reintroducing eggs and dairy back into your unhealthy vegan diet causes you to feel guilty, I highly suggest you either grow up a little or just stop eating altogether. After all, all those lentils and bean sprouts and soy milk and what ever else you people eat were once living things too. Oh, the humanity!

Tofu isn't wheat, it's soy bean curd. It is gluten free.

Veganism doesn't make your hair fall out, however lack of iron does. I suggest eating more iron.

I've been a vegan for over 2 decades, and I have a full head of gloriously long hair.

How old are you? Do you have a family history of hair loss?

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


Your too worried about what 'others' may think. It doesn't matter what they say. Take care of you, yourself. I have no experience with 'vegan', so I give that over to fellow posters. They have given you good advice. good luck & take care of yourself.

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


I take a suplement called Spirulina, it has super amounts of protein and made such a difference in every aspect of my life because I have dietary issues from owning a food business for 25 years. Take the capsules, they are availible everywhere, its worth it !!!

Spirulina info

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


Hello - I was drawn to your post as I have experienced hair loss a few months ago and I am paying a lot of attention to my diet and lifestyle. I will share some information that you may or may not find relevant. I too have not been a big meat eater during my life and over the past few years I seldom eat it at all. I may order fried rice that has a minimal amount of ham etcetera to give you an idea.

My hair was falling out like never before in my life. I have always had a healthy head of hair as they say. I had to think like a scientist - so I stopped going to the hairdresser and switched to henna as it is natural. I am also under an enormous amount of stress with external stressors not of my making - almost 18 months now.

I also stopped drinking fluoridated water. I increased all my vitamins (all 11 of them) and started to practice the concept of positive thinking. My hair not only stopped falling out in massive amounts - it is now thickening up again. I also stopped using products on my hair. Many years ago I had a person explain to me that when a person stops using shampoos and conditioners there are natural oils that will start flowing again. It can be difficult for the first couple of weeks as the hair can appear greasy - as if it hasn't been washed. The oily/greasy look is just a phase and passes. I just tie my hair back - wear a headband or scarf.

So I am just throwing some more aspects to consider as you focus solely on food. We as humans place many chemicals on our skin as well as ingest chemicals. My personal thought is eating only fresh well sourced unprocessed foods though thoughtful and diligent - it is not enough - that is why I take 11 vitamins. They work. My doctor knows exactly what I do and I regale him with the research I conduct that accompanies my actions.

I hope you find the solution so you can maintain your hair and nails. You appear conscientious and that means you will find the solution - let us know what happens as you try to find your solution.

Much Peace...

If you live on the West Coast of the U.S. I'm thinking the hair loss is Fukushima related.

A friend in southern WI. is reporting 3 young acquaintances of his have just been diagnosed with brain tumors and thyroid cancers. Some people are more sensitive to the fall out but eventually we'll all succumb.

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


Vegetarians who do it to save the animals MAKE ME CRAZY.

Obviously Plants deserve absolutely no respect then and ripping a root vegetable out of the ground ending its life is somehow better than killing an animal....

All you 'Vegetarians to save the planet' are just insane. Do it due to some sort of health complication with eating meat otherwise accept that we are top of the food chain....

WE HAVE CANINE TEETH, EYES AT THE FRONT OF OUR HEAD, AND HAVE EVOLVED TO EAT MEAT.

I hope you realise there is just as much bad karma attached to the claiming of Earth for agricultural purposes as there is for slaughtering animals for food. Just as there is bad karma attached to the chemical fertilisers used on crops to help them grow that then poison the ground with chemicals and kill those lovely little insects living in the ground......

How can you trust the farmer is doing his best for nature? You can't unless you grow it yourself. Now get over it and go enjoy a nice steak.

reply to post by LightAssassin

Obviously Plants deserve absolutely no respect then and ripping a root vegetable out of the ground ending its life is somehow better than killing an animal....

Exactly.

Do trees feel pain?

I've seen reports of electrical signals in trees becoming erratic when another tree is cut down.

Then there is always the Ringing Cedars if someone wants to really get emotionally attached to their trees. After reading about Anastasia and another ATSers experience I went out and hugged my big Pine Tree (figuring it was at least a cousin to the Cedars), and you know what...... it felt good. I tried to hug a squirrel but he just ran off. Trees are obviously way nicer than squirrels. Eat less vegetables and more squirrels!

reply to post by getreadyalready


My plants are conscious enough to tell me they need watering, and if I don't water them they will most certainly die. When the sun rises up my plants look towards it for energy. They get excited over the food the sun provides and you can see it.

In fact my sun flower actually faces the window on my house rather than the sun because the window reflects the sunlight straight onto it.

Being a vegetarian to try and feel better about animal slaughter and treatment is comical. It's the worst kind of double standard around.

Originally posted by Tripple_Helix
It started as a medical reason, although I have never been a real big meat eater. I cut out all dairy, eggs, fish, poultry & meat. It has now turned into a moral issue for me.

A little while back, my hair started to fall out. I thought it was just an after effect of the anesthesia, or so people told me. Now I'm not so sure. If I can give you an indication of how much hair is falling out- If I roll it into a tight ball, it's a little bit smaller than a tennis ball... slightly larger than a golf ball. Now, it doesn't stop in the shower. All day long if I put my hands through my hair, about 10 strands come out each time.

It has also taken over 3 weeks for my nails to grow 2mm and some are splitting apart horizontally, yet, they are very hard and strong.

I will never go back to eating meat. But dairy and eggs? I don't know... I know the dairy industry is just as bad as the meat industry and I don't want to support it. And from everything I've heard and read about dairy, animal protein and cancer, I'm not too sure I want to go down that path.

I really do eat a balanced vegan diet. Lots of fruits, veggies at night, whole grains like rice and quinoa. Olive oil, coconut oil. I get protein from beans like soy, chickpeas etc.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
I also do occasionally take a B12 supplement, which comes from plant extracts.

I can't even imagine eating a little chicken egg... but I crave it. After 3 months though?! Should cravings not be gone by now?

So, I'm in a catch 22 here. There are people just waiting for me to fail at this and I would hate to prove them right. I want to eat in an ethical and kind way. But I also don't want to feel like I have failed, and make myself even more sick at the same time.

I have major stomach issues as well, so I am also gluten free since a week ago... Talk about cutting out major food groups.

Anyone with advice?

PS:

My nails used to grow at such a rapid rate that I could not have my nails done because they just grew too fast. Those nails normally last a woman about 2-3 weeks, mine lasted a week. So I'd say they grew about a cm per week and a half.

edit on 14-6-2012 by Tripple_Helix because: (no reason given)

dude your doing it all wrong.


eat what you body tells you to eat.


you want milk? drink milk.


you want beans, eat beans.

meat? still try to eat beans, but if you really need it, eat the meat.


use better shampoo too, (all natural)

reply to post by SoymilkAlaska

dude your doing it all wrong.


eat what you body tells you to eat.


you want milk? drink milk.


you want beans, eat beans.

meat? still try to eat beans, but if you really need it, eat the meat.


use better shampoo too, (all natural)

I just went to the gym, and then had a protein shake. Its well after 7 p.m., but I haven't been eating that clean lately, so my body is expecting cheap calories and sweet or spicy taste. If I listened to my body at this very moment I would be making 3 grilled cheeses with salt and jalapeno peppers on top, and I would follow that up with some Breyer's Vanilla Bean Ice Cream and Chocolate Hard Shell topping while I watch the season premiere Suits at 10 o'clock and flip back and forth with the Heat Game.

I don't think listening to my body tonight is the best thing.

Please reply to this, we're the vegetables you got from California?

Originally posted by LightAssassin


WE HAVE CANINE TEETH, EYES AT THE FRONT OF OUR HEAD, AND HAVE EVOLVED TO EAT MEAT.

All mammals save for rodents and cows have canine teeth.
Pre-humans developed front facing eyes to judge depth for living in trees.
We have evolved to tolerate meat eating, but it is still pretty unhealthy for us to consume the cholesterol of other animals.