What do we do when religion is a drirect threat to freedom and liberty?

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posted on May, 19 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by SaturnFX

If you believe that, then would you agree to my former post above?
Nope. I would not.

Then I hope you get what you desire.
May you one day live in a land that imposes religion on you.

sidenote caveat: may that religion not be your specific one


All things are equal after all...enjoy your call to prayer.
Actually, liberals would suffer much more under Sharia than I would. You do know that they kill homosexuals and "dishonored" females; right? Maybe you are better off in a "Christian" nation.




posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by LDragonFire
 


We live in a State's rights nation. It is in our constitution. You can work to change what you don't like about where you live by using your freedom of speech etc., or you can move to another area where you better agree with the laws and ordinances already in place. This is not a form of church control as you assert, but rather it is the laws and ordinances put into place by the people who live where you also live.

No I don't want to fundamentally change our constitution, so NO I don't agree with you.


Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from religion,

What if a state decided you cannot talk to the opposite sex on sunday...its the states right to impose that, right?
wrong.
The federal government acknowledges that like minds cluster..meaning intellects go where the intelligence is at.
This also means idiots clamor together and form little kingdoms of idiots.
The fed exists to make sure that the idiot areas don't become to stupid as to start threatening lives...ushering in mini theocracys.

I personally worship Dyonisis.. It is part of my religion that states I must go buy beer on sunday..its a god thing, you wouldn't understand.
What state has the right to deny me my religious freedom and practice by banning my legal holy beer purchase practice due to favoritism over another religion?


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Constitution > local bans and ordanances...you cannot decide to enact slavery in Kentucky because the people in Kentucky are pro-slavery...constitution forbids it.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by DarthMuerte
 

I don't drink, but its been said that a true sign of freedom is a open market. Im not gay but everyone should have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I'm not female but a woman should be able to do what she wants with here body.

Instead of being told what to do by one group of people based on there religious beliefs.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 
There is no "freedom from religion" in the Constitution. No separation of church and state either.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by SaturnFX

If you believe that, then would you agree to my former post above?
Nope. I would not.

Then I hope you get what you desire.
May you one day live in a land that imposes religion on you.

sidenote caveat: may that religion not be your specific one


All things are equal after all...enjoy your call to prayer.
Actually, liberals would suffer much more under Sharia than I would. You do know that they kill homosexuals and "dishonored" females; right? Maybe you are better off in a "Christian" nation.


Never good to compare yourself with the worst.
I prefer secular state.
But, if a religion must be established, I choose Jedi.

Only a sith would disagree with me here.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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My answer to your post is a simple one, just be nice. You will be socked how well it will serve you.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by SaturnFX
 
There is no "freedom from religion" in the Constitution. No separation of church and state either.




Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

marriage = an establishment of religion
laws are made
more laws are wanting to be made by the religious



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by DarthMuerte
 

I don't drink, but its been said that a true sign of freedom is a open market.
LOL, you live in the wrong country then. There is no "open" or "free" market here anymore.


Im not gay but everyone should have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I agree. Life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness should be freely available for all. My only problem with homosexuality is that I find it disgusting. My only problem with homosexuals is that they insist that I accept their disgusting practices as "normal". I don't want to see it, and I certainly don't want my kids to see it on a day out at Disney for example. Keep sex behind closed doors. Do what you want behind those closed doors; as long as it is two consenting adults, I don't care. Don't ever expect me to accept those practices as "normal".


I'm not female but a woman should be able to do what she wants with her body.

Instead of being told what to do by one group of people based on there religious beliefs.
With the exception of murdering infants/fetuses, I agree with you. It isn't my business. It is between you and God. Not my business at all, unless you make it my business by reaching into my wallet.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
I prefer secular state.
But, if a religion must be established, I choose Jedi.

Only a sith would disagree with me here.
I prefer that we follow our Constitution as written. There are a couple of amendments I disagree with and would like to change(Senators to be chosen by and represent the states again for example), but the Constitution of the US was the best government ever formed by man.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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Basically, The religious views from any group should not be forced upon anyone IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Religion and Laws in regards to freedom of an individual do not go together.

Its like saying, you should be arrested for committing adultery because cheating is against a religion. Or like gay marriage; If you believe Gays should be able to get married and we know religions disagree, then don't get married IN A CHURCH and call it something else. I just dont see why it cant be that easy? Why wont the let it be THAT EASY?



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by SaturnFX
 
There is no "freedom from religion" in the Constitution. No separation of church and state either.




Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

marriage = an establishment of religion
laws are made
more laws are wanting to be made by the religious

Many laws are wanted to be made by the anti-religious as well. This is why I propose the dissolution of the union to form at least two separate nations. One for liberals and one for those of us who love freedom.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire


What do we do? How can we make this group understand these protections in place for them, should be in place for everyone, yet all there main efforts seem to be to limit the right of those who do not agree with them?

What say you ATS?
edit on 19-5-2012 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)


Who has convinced society that abortion is not murder? Who has convinced society that a sexual practice is grounds for marriage? Who has convinced society that injustice, greed, and materialism are good qualities? Who has convinced society to abandon the God of their forefathers? Who has indoctrinated our youth that extraterrestrials are their creator and soon to be saviour? Who is indoctrinating our youth in occultism? Who is indoctrinating society with the belief that love equates to tolerance? Who is convincing our youth to commit suicide in record numbers because of depression and hopelessness? Why are the prisons filled to capacity with hardened criminals in record numbers? Who has brainwashed our society into sex sells, prostitution, Viagra, and child pedophilia? Who is convincing our teenage girls to experiment with lesbianism because it's "cool and hip"? I'd like to ask - who exactly do you think is doing all of this? Enlightened mankind? Pfft

The reason for all of those things is because the true Christian gospel hasn't been preached in decades. If you cannot fathom the concept that darkness moves in when light dims, then you'll never even see the end coming. It's right in front of your face, yet you cannot see it, and in fact, you can't see how you've been deceived into fighting for the darkness and are accepting evils that not more than sixty years ago were still called evil and accepting sin as good when sixty years ago it was still called sin. Do you really think that God changes His morality? Truly?

Satan isn't called the father of lies, a deceiver and a murderer for nothing. You obviously do not sense the time in which you live, and by the grace of God, maybe someday soon you will. Perhaps someday you will look at those questions above and truly wonder where did all these changes come from,.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by SaturnFX
 
There is no "freedom from religion" in the Constitution. No separation of church and state either.



I assume that you believe our forefathers were Christian? In fact they were mostly closer to agnostic. The bottom line is we should not live by archaic laws in this day. Religion truly has no place in modern politics but that does not mean we need an atheist president. Both aheists and people who claim to be of a particular religion are often crazier than half of the people currently residing in mental institutions. What does that tell you? Oh and don't get me started on modern day "feminists."

Most people claiming to be "christian" are somehow unaware of this but according to the new testament Jesus died for all of our sins and "supposedly" in gods eyes aren't most sins equal? I was raised by baptist parents and my father believed that you can beat religion into a child. I read both the old and new testaments, though it has been quite some time I wont deny. My interpretation was that homosexuality is no more or less of a sin than say a man receiving masturbating or receiving oral sex from a woman. Isn't that a fair argument to support the opinion that "christians" have no "right" to tell homosexuals they are wrong? I mean lying and judging others are also sins, aren't they? I don't recall much mention of homosexuality in the new testament but the old testament seemed to be pointing in the direction that women are somehow "lesser" than men...

I'm agnostic by the way so please do not tell me that my "atheist opinions" are flawed.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by LightWarrior11
Basically, The religious views from any group should not be forced upon anyone IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Religion and Laws in regards to freedom of an individual do not go together.

Its like saying, you should be arrested for committing adultery because cheating is against a religion. Or like gay marriage; If you believe Gays should be able to get married and we know religions disagree, then don't get married IN A CHURCH and call it something else. I just dont see why it cant be that easy? Why wont the let it be THAT EASY?

Why won't the gays let it be that easy? I do not oppose civil unions for homosexuals, marriage is a different matter though. It is supposed to be sacred. I am not saying it isn't tarnished now, it certainly is. However instead of completely debasing it, just allow the gays to have their government sanctioned unions.
Adultery is among the worst crimes imo. The punishment should be severe. If you cannot honor your commitment to God and your spouse, get a divorce. Only incest is a greater breach of trust imo. Control yourself, do the right thing and get a divorce if you cannot honor your commitments.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by SaturnFX
 
There is no "freedom from religion" in the Constitution. No separation of church and state either.




Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

marriage = an establishment of religion
laws are made
more laws are wanting to be made by the religious

Many laws are wanted to be made by the anti-religious as well. This is why I propose the dissolution of the union to form at least two separate nations. One for liberals and one for those of us who love freedom.

Why don't those whom truely love freedom find a different place on earth that has tons of freedom.
Somolia for instance...there is pretty much no functioning government there at all...do as you want, let your gun decide when you crossed the line.
Conservatopia...all those freedom loving Somalians, riding the high seas with eye patches and peg legs, etc...

Us freedom hating others will deal with the burdens of things like running water, electricity, and paved streets...oh the inhumanity of it all.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 
Or you lovers of socialism and liberalism could move to the paradises of Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece or France. I would suggest the USSR, but they didn't "make it". I am sure that China would accept you with open arms. Look to the socialist republic of California to see our very near future if we continue down our current path. Look to Greece to see slightly farther into the future.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by LDragonFire


What do we do? How can we make this group understand these protections in place for them, should be in place for everyone, yet all there main efforts seem to be to limit the right of those who do not agree with them?

What say you ATS?
edit on 19-5-2012 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)


Who has convinced society that abortion is not murder? Who has convinced society that a sexual practice is grounds for marriage? Who has convinced society that injustice, greed, and materialism are good qualities? Who has convinced society to abandon the God of their forefathers? Who has indoctrinated our youth that extraterrestrials are their creator and soon to be saviour? Who is indoctrinating our youth in occultism? Who is indoctrinating society with the belief that love equates to tolerance? Who is convincing our youth to commit suicide in record numbers because of depression and hopelessness? Why are the prisons filled to capacity with hardened criminals in record numbers? Who has brainwashed our society into sex sells, prostitution, Viagra, and child pedophilia? Who is convincing our teenage girls to experiment with lesbianism because it's "cool and hip"? I'd like to ask - who exactly do you think is doing all of this? Enlightened mankind? Pfft



And how exactly are viagra and lesbianism so bad, how are either "evil"? I mean sure, I'll give you that some crazy dude might molest or rape someone if he has the viagra but that is a pretty out there notion. Why is a female having sex with another willing female bad? Simply because some men a long time ago wrote some stuff that some old people these days have interpreted to mean that an unproven deity says it is wrong for two people of the same sex to have sex? Oh and prostitution is actually older than Christianity, I wasn't sure if you were aware of that little fact or not. It is also up for debate whether our forefathers were atheist, agnostic, or something else, there is evidence to support that most of them might have been similar to agnostic if you're willing to look for it and read the material, I mean it's only written word, just like the religious documents, so I guess you shouldn't really consider them of any more or less importance or legitimacy than any religious texts, you know, just to be "fair."



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by LightWarrior11
Basically, The religious views from any group should not be forced upon anyone IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Religion and Laws in regards to freedom of an individual do not go together.

Its like saying, you should be arrested for committing adultery because cheating is against a religion. Or like gay marriage; If you believe Gays should be able to get married and we know religions disagree, then don't get married IN A CHURCH and call it something else. I just dont see why it cant be that easy? Why wont the let it be THAT EASY?

Why won't the gays let it be that easy? I do not oppose civil unions for homosexuals, marriage is a different matter though. It is supposed to be sacred. I am not saying it isn't tarnished now, it certainly is. However instead of completely debasing it, just allow the gays to have their government sanctioned unions.
Adultery is among the worst crimes imo. The punishment should be severe. If you cannot honor your commitment to God and your spouse, get a divorce. Only incest is a greater breach of trust imo. Control yourself, do the right thing and get a divorce if you cannot honor your commitments.


Who said marriage had to be a certain way? Marriage exists in many different religions and some look at it differently than others but I suppose in America Christians own it and should be able to make the decision for everyone else. Who said one group of people should have the right to control everyone else? What gives them that right? What makes marriage "sacred," in America its really more political...
I want to now why we all should follow the rules of your religion? I thought there was supposed to be a thing called freedom of religion in America...

I'm not trying to pick on you bro, I would ask the same question to an "atheist" because many of them are just as full of crap as so many of the so called "christians" walking this earth.



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by SaturnFX
 
Or you lovers of socialism and liberalism could move to the paradises of Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece or France. I would suggest the USSR, but they didn't "make it". I am sure that China would accept you with open arms. Look to the socialist republic of California to see our very near future if we continue down our current path. Look to Greece to see slightly farther into the future.


Denmark is more my style...you know...that socialist hellhole that has the statistical highest levels of general happiness across the board...

Incidently, you mentioned many places that had lots of corruption and deregulation of corporations...and then the USSR, which was just rediculous.
Why not try Saudi Arabia for you? they love imposing religion there..its fantastic...even have people beating other people in the streets if they aren't moral enough. weee.
You could also try super conservative Iran...again, big shout out to religion imposed, along with all sorts of super conservative ideals...to include excessive military buildup, getting rid of them gays, etc...its fantastic, you may love it.

Or you can just move over to mississippi or the like, one of the most conservative states in the union, and just look at their wonderful prosperity. New York cries at just how wonderful and booming that conservative theocracic republic is doing.



op 10 wealthiest states
Here's where the median household income is highest
State Income
Maryland $65,144
New Jersey $64,470
Connecticut $63,422
Hawaii $61,160
Massachusetts $59,963
New Hampshire $59,683
Alaska $59,393
California $56,645
Virginia $56,277
Minnesota $54,023

aka, the liberal states


The 10 poorest states
The states with the lowest median household income
State Income
New Mexico $40,629
Montana $40,627
Tennessee $40,315
Kentucky $39,372
Louisiana $39,337
Alabama $38,783
Oklahoma $38,770
Arkansas $36,599
West Virginia $35,059
Mississippi $34,473

aka, the conservative states.


I don't necessarily disagree with you...we should divide the country in half...one for the liberals, and the other for the conservatives. Issue is, we would need to hire some of your hammer jockeys to build a wall to stop the people of conservatopia sneaking across the border to try and live a halfway decent life.

(yes, we can go into pointless partisan debate all day long...but meh, whats the point anyhow...its saturday..lets go fishing)



posted on May, 19 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by SaturnFX
 
Or you lovers of socialism and liberalism could move to the paradises of Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece or France. I would suggest the USSR, but they didn't "make it". I am sure that China would accept you with open arms. Look to the socialist republic of California to see our very near future if we continue down our current path. Look to Greece to see slightly farther into the future.


This might be a little bit off topic but I have a question for you.

I believe that it should be the responsibility of the government to make it so that every American citizen who desires to do s can go to college or trade school and not be in debt from doing so. I also believe that welfare should help parents who are going to college and struggling to get by (which it does not) and cut off those who use drugs daily and trade their welfare assistance for drugs while their children starve (which it also does not). I don't think that religion has any place in politics but I also believe that everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they so choose as long as they are not trying to force their beliefs on others or harming others because they believe that they should be doing so in the name of their god. I believe that there is nothing wrong with having a welfare system but I do not support free handouts to people who just don't give a crap. In my opinion we should take everyone who is on welfare and using drugs off, if it can be proven that the people have traded welfare for drugs each of those people should be shot between the eyes for contributing to ruining our nation and doing such a terrible thing to their children (children they probably only brought into this world to help them get "free money" anyway). BUT I believe that there should be assistance to the honest people who need it, but the government should do all that is possible to help those people get an education of some sort, be it trade or whatever, so that they will not have to constantly rely on the assistance. Does that make me a "socialist," should I move out of your America?





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