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What do we do when religion is a drirect threat to freedom and liberty?

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posted on May, 20 2012 @ 04:48 PM
reply to post by psyop911

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 04:54 PM
Declare war against the God (Satan) of Abraham and you've taken care of the core evil in this world.

God of Abraham is the most hateful, genocidal, hypocritical, God of them all.

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 05:55 PM

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by Fury1984

I agree with almost everything you posted, however if a church becomes political as in telling there congregation who to vote for or what party to support we start down a slippery slope. If they are going to actively support politics should they not be required to pay like everyone else does?

Unions normally support Democrats, but unless I'm mistaken they do pay taxes, and I'm not aware of this group supporting social engineering laws.
edit on 19-5-2012 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)

If churches spent more time helping those in their communities and spreading the love of Christ, I don't think they would even need to concern themselves with politics. Again, since I oppose income taxes, I don't see how my position will change. However, I'm pretty sure the government has the ability to remove tax-exempt status if a church or religious organization actively pushes a political candidate. That's why they can say things like, "During this election season, we need to support people who believe X, Y,Z." Since they aren't endorsing a candidate, but a belief, they aren't in violation.

My biggest beef with many of my fellow Christians is that the see the world with an Us vs. Them mentality. If you're not on our "team" or our "side," then you are evil and you shouldn't have the same rights. The problem, I think, is in their theology. Many believe they conjured up the faith that led to salvation, so their salvation is of their own doing (to a certain degree). The best example I have of this way of thinking is how Billy Graham used to say that God has done 99% and you only have to do 1%, which is to believe. So, if you think you're special because you did something to save yourself, you might look down your nose at a sinner and think they are less than you.

On the other hand, if you view salvation as wholly of God and by God, then you have no reason to boast (Eph. 2:8-9). You would be more thankful that God revived you from spiritual death and gave you eternal life. You would recognize that were it not for God, you would still be separated from God. Your perspective of others who do not yet know God would be one of wanting to help them see the truth. Of course, God still would have to intervene in their lives, but you wouldn't view them as a lesser human. You would want to pray for them and help them. You would see them as more significant than yourself, not less significant (Phil. 2:3-4).

Legally, I view homosexuals (as individuals or couples) as the same as anyone else. It should not be the policy of any government to regulate who should be able to make a mutual voluntary commitment. And the privileges and rights afforded to married couples should be the same for gay couples.

In regards to unions being taxed, I would say it probably has more to do with the fact that unions are not seen as charities, not that they are politically involved. It would be difficult for them to argue that they are a charity when their contributions are forced in order for the people to have their jobs. So because of their status, I see why they would push certain agendas as a political level. Whether they support social engineering is probably another dicussion.

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 06:04 PM

Originally posted by buster2010
The lord hated wealth and on judgement day all these fake Christians who use their faith to gain wealth by using tax loopholes will pay for their deeds. And I hope they enjoy their servitude to Satan.

Jesus said man cannot serve two masters, God and money. The overall point is that we should lay up our treasures in heaven, as they will be eternal instead of this temporary stuff that will eventually perish or burn or be stolen. In order to fully serve God, one must despise money. That isn't to say that money doesn't have its purpose. Remember that Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's. Yes, it is harder for the rich to get into heaven. It is easy to think you don't need God if you're never in physical need. That doesn't mean rich people don't get into heaven.

Also, hell was created for Satan and his demons. Don't think that Satan is the Superintendent of hell or something. He will be burning, too.

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 06:10 PM
reply to post by disfugured

A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.

And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 06:30 PM
reply to post by EnigmaticDill

Have you ever encountered a single Jew, Muslim or Christian who said that God was WRONG?! As soon as you conclude that any of the passages in the holy books of Abrahamism that condone murder, hate, greed, theft, genocide, human sacrifice, mindless obedience, rape, incest etc etc IS WRONG then you can no longer be an Abrahamist.


Because that God was all about the above.
edit on 20-5-2012 by disfugured because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 06:37 PM
We recognize that religion is an outdated, outmoded, unnecessary form of CONTROL by one group of people over another...and that in order to truly advance as a species, we need to get rid of ridiculous ideas of religion that have been holding us back for thousands of years.

There is a difference between individual spirituality and RELIGION which is about CONTROL. The Christians in America and the Muslims in the Middle East are exactly the same, either brainwashed or actively pretending to be "religious" so that they can control others.

Wake up and realize this.

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 07:47 PM

Originally posted by LDragonFire

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I would apply this to muslims, gays, socialists etc.... Think about the law of unintended consequences before you propose to change the status-quo.

Please show me where I have lost any freedoms or liberty to a muslim, gay or socialist?

However I did say religion so muslims would be included in my op.

I will add that during this time of economic downturn and other obvious problems in the states the state of Mississippi and North Carolina are busy working on social laws like gay marriage and abortion instead of fixing there roads or improving there schools and other things that would in fact improve there state and the lives of the people who live there.

edit on 19-5-2012 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)

Well, if you say anything about either of these groups, you run the risk of it being a "hate crime" and being called a racist. You've lost your freedom of speech. You are forced to walk around a pretend you agree with them in fear of any number of repercussions. If you do the same to a Christian you get an applause and nobody cares.

The only limitations you have regarding Christians is that we don't want government dollars to fund other people's perceived "rights".

To put it another way, in my day-to-day life, I am more mindful of hurting the feelings of a muslim, gay or socialist than I am of a Christian.

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 08:01 PM
reply to post by LDragonFire

If you deny freedom to one individual, you deny freedom to all.

If today the Government can say gays can't be married then they can say that too any group.

Today it is gays, then Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, etc.

If one groups freedoms is restricted than any other group is next.

We are all free or none are free.
edit on 20-5-2012 by sdocpublishing because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-5-2012 by sdocpublishing because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 09:06 PM
The real question is: why is freedom being used to threaten liberty?

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 09:10 PM
reply to post by LDragonFire

Under the US system, religion can never be a threat to Liberty. The problem is the ignoring of the constitution and corrupt government.

It is not the Federal government's business how states and local governments run their business. They are only responsible for the powers that are entrusted to them by the people through the document known as the COTUS. The SCOTUS is responsible for determining if a local ordinance is in violation of the COTUS.

The problem is that we keep ignoring it and we let them get away with saying that the COTUS is open to interpretation.

It's NOT open to interpretation. It is written in plain English specifically to avoid this legalize nonsense that lawyers love to use to their advantage.

Shall not be infringed. Those are simple words with simple meaning. In no way shall it be infringed.

Now as far as ability to practice religion, that is another thing entirely.

There should be no such thing as a dry county, it impedes peoples ability to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Now, if every store in the county agrees to not store and sell liquor, that is another thing all together.

If someone comes in and decides to open a liquor store, but the county boycotts you and puts you out of business, that is another story, but there should be no law prohibiting any choice that only affects the person doing so.


posted on May, 20 2012 @ 10:12 PM
So it's not okay for Christians to dictate government policy but it's okay for the 15% atheist in this country to dictate to the rest of us? I love these questions because they always point out the utter hypocrisy of your cause. You just hate how the Christians set policy, but what do you want? THE EXACT SAME THING, just on your terms.

That's why we have elections, if more people agreed with you guess what these laws would go away. God forbid you don't get to get drunk on Sundays...

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 10:24 PM
reply to post by evanmontegarde

Yeah that getting rid of religion thing worked out grrrreat for the soviets and Chinese right? In fact there hasn't been an atheist government that didn't slaughter millions of people has there?

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 11:45 PM
reply to post by LDragonFire

Reinterpret the heart and core of the religious teachings as founded on freedom and liberty including the freedom to find God and enlightenment, or not.

That's what I say, even as an evolutionary Christian mystic who would like for everyone to find the same one truth that sets us all free.

posted on May, 20 2012 @ 11:57 PM

Originally posted by disfugured
Declare war against the God (Satan) of Abraham and you've taken care of the core evil in this world.

God of Abraham is the most hateful, genocidal, hypocritical, God of them all.

Have you met Jesus?

He straightened that all out and formed a new covenant, based on love and forgiveness, who's God was the most high God of all, God of the Tao, yet related to as if in an intimate parent-child type relationship, himself (son of man) being made in the image and likeness of God and embued with the spiritual authority of God in obediance to God's will as the will to love.

posted on May, 21 2012 @ 12:14 AM
reply to post by KnawLick

You just hate how the Christians set policy, but what do you want? THE EXACT SAME THING, just on your terms.

My boss used to buy us pizza every now and then. Usually to celebrate a productive week, sometimes when things weren't going well and people needed a boost. Anyway, I like veggie pizzas and they always made sure to get one.

One time I saw this Arab coworker (fairly new guy) looking over the pizzas and not taking anything. I figured I could guess what the problem was so I said, "Hey Aziz, over here!". And we shared some tasty American veggie pizza while the others enjoyed a variety of other styles.

This is why I really have a problem with what you said. If Aziz's religion were setting policy I'd have still been having my veggie pizza, but everyone else's freedom of choice would have been taken away. Just as when Christian's beliefs set policy, someone's freedom is invariably curtailed.

The only freedom I want to take from you is the ability to make me abide by your (or anybody's) superstitious dictates.

posted on May, 21 2012 @ 12:21 AM
reply to post by DarthMuerte

Please do not forget to include tolerance preaching liberals.
Muslims want everyone to practice Islam
Christians want everyone to practice Christianity
etc. etc. etc.
Each of these groups would like to see laws passed 'forcing' people to behave in a manner that conforms to their belief systems
Tolerance preaching liberals differ how?
They have a belief system
They believe it is superior to all opposing belief systems
They would like to see laws passed forbidding people to act in ways inconsistent with their belief system
They need to get off their high horses and take a good look at themselves.
They are just one more small group of believers who insist the world acknowledges that everyone else is wrong and their teachings are the one, true, enlightened set of rules the world should live by.
I am not impressed.

posted on May, 21 2012 @ 12:58 AM
reply to post by LDragonFire

Quickest way to not make it about MARRIAGE is to not call it marriage. (There's a lot of Gays that don't want gay marriage, btw. They're just marginalized further than those who want the marriages.) It should be financially expedient to tie up your property, and join finances, take care of any kid that's not necessarily your own, to anyone without it having to be about marriage. Frankly, that only Marriages are blessed with this freedom is a damned shame. And I state this while believing that homosexuality is a sin.

posted on May, 21 2012 @ 01:13 AM
I just want to note that religion is often part of social change. It usually provides a basic education for peasants, teaches them to read and write. Teaches concepts of universal equality and promotes peace.

I just don't get how it is all of a sudden "hip" to crap on religion.

It has been around forever and will be forever. Why? because it is part of who we are, and no new age, wanna be enlightened people this generation will change that. The NWO says abolish religion and you guys fall in line all the while talking about TPTB.....You are actually in agreement with the core principals of the NWO.

1. Enhance humanity in a transhumanist system of improvements. ( Who here doesn't want artificial enhancements?) (ME)

2. Abolish religion (If a force against global change ever existed it is religion.) The NWO will need to subvert many of our core values over time and replace them with more flexible ones that allow for quick war and resolution abroad, Talking about how god made your enemy too will not fly. They need to squash local dissidents, ( religion has the tendency to create communities that will face adversity together rather than leave one to be the disenfranchised loser)

3. Historically religion has opposed things like slavery in south America with the Jesuits. The Jesuit order has always been a form of progressive change, education, and social responsibility.

4. allot more, but hey you aren't even reading. You saw where I was going with this and said, "no I am enlightened dumb one, God is for kids".....I guess you think you are nothing more than what little achievements you have made in this life and what they sum up to. I wonder who would want you to think so little of yourself? Not the NWO....surely not

Be "cool" and "enlightened" all you want. I will honor my ancestors and give my children a legacy that is beyond me and my insignificant life. I will be part of a community stretching over the vastness of time and uniting humanity in all its many cultures and peoples.

You will be remembered as hipsters. Enjoy.
edit on 21-5-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 21 2012 @ 01:27 AM
The Ignorance on Display in this thread is breath taking.

Seriously, could you be any more HATE filled and INTOLLERANT towards a group of people??

Many of you Guys are blind Hypocrites. You really want to wage War Via the Government on Religion?

How naive can you get? Do you have any idea how much blood has been shed specifically to protect people in this country from this sort of nonsense?

The Government should not be the tool of Choice by any group of americans (religious or not) to force other people toward any action or belief. It should exist solely to prevent people from being Trampled on. And if you think that Homosexuals are being trampled on in American Society, your insane. Sure they can face some social prejudices.. But then what would you call the nature of this thread towards Christians??

Homesexuals are Free to do WHATEVER they want. Nobody is stopping them from having a ceremony and calling their relationship a marriage.

They do not however have a right to Highjack marraige as Defined within the Christian Church and in fact even if they use the word, it is impossible for them to mimic it. The Church recognizes a Union of the Flesh between a Man and a Woman as the Seal of a Covenant before our Creator God. It is Physically Impossible for two men or two women to mimic this Seal as it was designed by our Creator. Sure they can engage in a perversion of the Seal.. but it is not the same and cannot be used as a substitute.

Thus without the combination of a Vow spoken before God and any number of Witness', used to establish the terms of the Covenant being entered into, and then a Physical Union in the Flesh(between a man and a woman) as a Seal of that Covenant. You in fact cannot have a Marriage before God.

As far as the Human Law is concerned. I Personally don't think either state nor ferderal governments should have anything to do with it. Homosexuals should be allowed to run around and call their relationships whatever they want. They aren't fooling christians and they certainly arn't fooling God.

The ROOT problem here is that the Government has any Role in this issue at all. They shouldn't be involved in recognizing any Personal relationships through the tax code or otherwise. People should be able to Claim their Partners as Dependants on Tax returns disregardless of the nature of the union and Everyone should have exactly the same rights before the States or legally for that matter.

There have actually been lawsuits filed, trying to sue Churchs to force them to preform a Marriage cermony for a homosexual Couple. This is Madness and cannot be allowed.

Christians who are trying to use Government and the Laws of the land to push an agenda on this issue are just as misguided. HOWEVER, I can see where they are coming from. They feel like if they don't push back that the Homosexual Agenda will just keep pushing and pushing for more absurd "rights" just like the example above of a church being Sued and forced to render services. So they are trying to gain protection through the same avenue that the Homosexuals are trying to push their agenda. Both avenues are a mistake... but hey, since when does our Government serve its original purpose for its people?

So in the end both groups are left trying to navigate a Social issue with the Power of the Government and the Courts looming large over the discussion table.

I say Change the Government and the tax system and let everyone live their lives however they want.

Then again what do I know... I'm just another one of those Insane, Radical, sub human, no Good Christians who is keeping all you perfect people from having your Paradise on Earth.

edit on 21-5-2012 by SoulReaper because: (no reason given)

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