The coming collapse: what should one expect? How does one survive?

reply to post by 00nunya00


I agree..I feel the same is going to happen. After the money change over they will try and implant us with RFID and this is suppose to be implemented by 2014. The RFID is in the New Health Care Bill and will be presented to improve access to Healthcare. Basically, the change-over will be from every transaction on debit cards to RFID being scanned in hand.

Originally posted by satron
Anyone else looking forward to not taking baths anymore?

Looking forward to taking ice cold showers under waterfalls.

reply to post by 00nunya00



As to iinfrastructure I think the people who do the rubbish water and everything else are more than capable of doing what they do, If they were being paid by govenment the community here would just need to make sure they are paid, I think the same would go for the other services. what we are changing here is just the decision making prosess, there are already people here in the bay that make those decisions but unfortunatly are over ruled

We the People are sick and tired of government making decisions on matters with out the consent of it’s people and wish to suggest localisation. Motueka town council, Golden Bay Council petitions are to be found here, we would also like think that the newly formed councils will operate smoothly with facility's for accountability to it’s people and without corruption. We are people just like you and I urge you to put aside your differences and join with us, as we need to hear your voice as much as you need to hear ours, all men and women are created equal

www.freekiwi.info


Oh also we have in New Zealand a number of different currencys happening so the fall of the dollar is not going to be an issue

Well, you asked for opinions, so here goes:

Since we're talking about a global economic collapse a few things must be taken into consideration such as where do all of the things that you rely upon actually come from? It sounds like you have a pretty good start in that you are at least THINKING about what comes next - thats a really good start!

In my opinion if the SHTF for real we will not be able to rely upon anything but ourselves for the foreseeable future. Forget about electricity, running water and any food that you cannot grow, gather, hunt or breed. The good news is that mankind has managed to survive for thousands of years without what we call the "modern conveniences". The bad news is that anything which you can collect, grow etc. can be taken from you by anyone with more firepower. The primary threat to survival will be other people!

With that in mind, the best plan is to get as far away from other people as quickly as possible. You mentioned that your redoubt is 45 minutes from where you live. If that is 45 minutes from NYC, it's not nearly far enough but if it's 45 minutes from Clovis, NM you might stand a chance. Knowledge and basic skills are your best preparation. Forget about almost anything mechanical unless you are prepared to repair, rebuild and fabricate each and every part of it over the long term. Hemp for bio-diesel? Great idea provided you have a water or animal powered mill to process it. Within days of a total collapse we will be back to animal power and a pre-industrial lifestyle. And it won't get any better within your lifespan. Get some blacksmithing tools and learn to use them. Learn to do basic welding - and have a few cylinders of gas stored in a safe place.

If you want power, buy a solar generator or stock up on large, "maintenance free" 12 volt batteries. Then take that old bicycle that the kids haven't ridden in years, mount it to a sturdy frame and use the chain drive to turn the alternator from your (now useless) vehicle. Use this rig to keep the batteries charged. Think of it as a stationary fitness bike with benefits. Not that you will need the exercise what with all the "chores" which you will need to do daily just to stay alive.

OK, I know this sounds a little pessimistic so far - but wait! There's more!

Plan on reverting to a clan mentality. Trust no one outside your clan group. Every stranger is a threat to your very existance until proven otherwise. Consider that once the grid goes down and transport as we know it ceases to exist you are indeed on your own. I see this as a negative feedback loop where it just keeps getting worse until we are back to where merely surviving will be job one.

At least the air will be cleaner - or will it? Much has been written about the impossibility of keeping the cooling pumps running at every nuclear power plant and spent fuel storage facility in the world. Eventually, when the fuel runs out or there are no more trucks to haul it to the plants or the generator fails for whatever reason, every nuclear facilitywill become a Fukushima so plan your redoubt accordingly. Study the weather patterns and avoid being downwind of anything nuclear - for a few hundred miles.

Last but not least, and going back to people as the number one enemy, consider what percentage of the population is currently taking some sort of anti-depressant medication such as Prozac - then look at the studies detailing the results of sudden withdrawal from these drugs. (You don't think that pharmacies will be restocked and running do you?) Imagine some place like the Los Angeles basin. Millions of people with no food, no natural water source and probably 30% of those hungry, thirsty people coming down off some kind of drug and armed to the teeth. Now THATS a scary thought!!

Acquire and learn to use a 12 volt powered, long range ham radio tranceiver. Once things do start to stabilize, communications will be invaluable - just be careful who you contact. Put as much information in the form of manuals, books etc. as possible onto a sturdy laptop computer. Have a few extra batteries and recharge them with the bicycle rig above.

Remember information and knowledge are your most important assets after food, water and shelter.

I wish us luck and may whichever deity you believe in show us mercy in the challenging times ahead.

Hope for a short term collapse, prepare for a long term collapse. Buy everything you need now while you can still do so. When the collapse happens expect a very long time before anything gets back up and running. Look at what hurricane Katrina did to New Orleans. It was a relatively small collapse and still took a very long time to get back up and running.

you know what, it's the communities that work together that will have the greatest survival rates. It will be those that can work together, that can pool resources and knowledge, rather than those who just stockpile food and guns that will survive.

Obviously having weapons and food will help a community survive, but if you think that you can just stockpile enough for you and your immediate family without having to work with the people who live near by you, then you're wrong.

Oh puhleeze. I've been reading about "the coming collapse" for more than 50 years. The've been saying Jesus is coming back SOON for almost 2 millennia..

It's fear mongering to control you. Sadly, some love being controlled.

I watch the show "Doomsday Preppers" and I am appalled by the general lack of actual survival skills. Not by all, but by most. Food and water stores and bunkers are great, but without the actual understanding of how to live on the land, etc., where will they be in 5 or 10 years when their huge stores are gone?

My family has an escape plan, with or without vehicle, and the know-how on how to fish, hunt, secure water, build shelters, etc., all with very basic tools and supplies and medicines. Guns are great for some people, but at some point, ammunition will run out. While bow hunting or spearing may seem silly compared to stores of weapons like many people claim they have, they are an endless source of weaponry for protection and food acquisition, and the ability to make them is a good skill, and where I am, lumber is abundant in the wild areas. It is not difficult at all.

Of course, this all depends on what is going down and for how long, etc. If Yellowstone erupts, where I'm at, we're toast, so it's all moot.

I have printed out everything that I would need to know how to do and have it collected together in one place. Some of it I've actually practiced doing. But I know how to preserve meat (the old-fashioned way), I know how to build a solar oven, I know how to preserve seeds and grow under different conditions, I know how to survive in the wilderness.

THere's much more, but the point is that, without actual knowledge of how to survive, you won't live very long, even with years of food stores. I think being mobile is key, because nomads can change their surroundings if need-be and staying in a place with everything just makes you a target. However, nuclear war is different, I understand that, so some might just blow off what I'm saying. Knowing how to live off the land and live like people used to, is key.

reply to post by Apollo7


Why would the power grid go down? We're not talking about a natural disaster, we're talking about people making choices. Do you really think that just because the economy collapsed, that those who run the power grid would just stay home and not go to work, or that the power company would say "well, we're not sure if you're going to pay your bills, so we're pre-emptively cutting *everyone* off"? That's unrealistic. The government would step in and secure the power supply stayed up. Letting the grid go down would be suicide, and I think it's silly to assume they'll do it right away, just because of economic collapse. They will seize control of it and never give control back.

Also, why would banks lose customer info? You do realize that computers don't have to stay on to be able to store info, right? You do realize all of that is on backup, right?

I guess I don't understand where all of this "as soon as it happens, hit the woods and never come back" comes from. If we're talking about a solar flare that takes out our electrical grid, then sure, all of this is relevant. But what makes everyone think that this time, unlike last time, we will be thrown back into the stone age for good? I still haven't seen that explanation yet.

reply to post by 00nunya00


I think everyone should have a plan that would include different forms of chaos and disaster. While economic collapse may be the most seemingly likely SHTF scenario, natural disaster on a large scale may be a strong possibility, too. In fact, there are so many scenarios that are just as likely, if you think about it.

Point being, yes, "roughing it", surviving in the wilderness is the best preparation anyone could have. Even if it's not needed in the long-term, just having that basic understanding would be helpful in many several situations, hopefully, the least of which would be the collapse of society and civilization.

reply to post by mountaingirl1111


Obviously, survivalism is a needed skill and preparing for the worst never hurts, but if the STHF and I assume total chaos, and go out to the woods to live, but then society regroups within a few weeks and suddenly there's a NWO to resist, hanging out in the woods isn't going to be helping me any. If it's NWO, they'll find everyone in the woods and bring them back or just let them be to die. So preparing for decades of woods life instead of the more realistic NWO/global currency takeover (while always being prepared for the random disaster) will serve me better, right?

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by mountaingirl1111

 

Obviously, survivalism is a needed skill and preparing for the worst never hurts, but if the STHF and I assume total chaos, and go out to the woods to live, but then society regroups within a few weeks and suddenly there's a NWO to resist, hanging out in the woods isn't going to be helping me any. If it's NWO, they'll find everyone in the woods and bring them back or just let them be to die. So preparing for decades of woods life instead of the more realistic NWO/global currency takeover (while always being prepared for the random disaster) will serve me better, right?

I see your point and respect it. I think it just depends on where everyone lives. I live a couple of miles from wilderness, like total wilderness, that has a nice distance between cities. I'm in Colorado and the mountain wilderness here is so vast and so thick, it would be hard to find people in there, seriously. I mean, maybe if they're using like heat-sensing radar or something, maybe, but where I am and who is nearby, it would be impossible to have big groups of people in the same area or even anywhere close. I'm originally from the Midwest, and that's a bit different. WHile there are wooded areas there, they just wouldn't be sufficient enough, in general, to allow for the plans that we have.

I think there are different ways an economic collapse could go. It might not be so easy, it might not be so hard, so planning for different scenarios is, in my opinion, the best way to go.

Also, I agree with the poster who mentioned 2013. I have a strong opinion and feeling about it, like 2012 = birth pangs, 2013 = the serious s***.

Good thread, by the way!

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by AzureSky

 

I totally agree with all this, and have it all (minus the solar), but the bigger question I'm asking is: HOW MUCH? How many years/months/decades supply of propane do I need to make it through, or should I be planning on something much more sustainable in the long-term? Are we talking about getting through 2-5 years of hardship, or are we talking about 30 years of boiling water for baths?

edit on 29-4-2012 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-4-2012 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)

Dont worry about boiling water for baths, water will be a stock item, not to waste on baths, the propane fuel you would have wasted as well, would be to important to waste. As for sitting down for a tea/coffee break with a home baked scone, you can forget that as well, you will be too busy fighting off the cold and hunger, you will forget how bad you smell as well. In some cases, the smoke from a fire will alert others to the fact that you have something worth stealing, you wont have to bother getting up to answer a knock on the door either, a swift boot will be the opening force, a bullet will be classed as a luxury, so a fatal beating would probably be more readily on offer.

People often wonder how long their supplies would last, well the simple answer is, as long as it takes for someone to realise that you have any supplies, then they would be gone. A lot of people think they are bad-ass enough to survive any devastation, but the truth is, it will be the roving looters who will win every time, the bug-out boys and girls will be too busy crying about what they might loose if the looters win, to even stand a chance and after all, you can't shoot anyone in the process, because you are saving your bullets for a worse attack, they will be sitting ducks.

As for the relief squads from the government, well they will be doing the same as they did for Katrina, etc, sitting around drinking tea and coffee, eating the odd scone, having a shower and watching footage of the riots and destruction going on around them. They won't even have to pretend this time that the deployment was a nightmare, they will just sit it out watching the new reality show unfolding before their own eyes.

I'd first like for someone to give an honest explanation of WHY this global economic/social collapse would happen in the first place?

Who benefits?

You think the elite want the globe to burn...just because

You think they can control the masses once it starts to truly freefall

Nobody benefits, and there's no real indication that it's necessary, or imminent.

People who think otherwise seem to be projecting their unconscious desire to do their selves harm.

They want their world to burn because they can't stand the one they've created.


Get a life.


If a collapse happens, a new structure will replace it ASAP. Even if it's just black markets, it will pop up and trade will continue.

There's only so many things that can collapse the world economy, and these freaking abstractive black holes aren't one of them. Look more to natural, tangible limitations...and that's still a while away.

I really dont think you can just prepare for one bad situation to occur, one must be very adaptible, I live in the Deep south, and Some of the people I know, would blow you away with what they know, Ok you see a redkneck guy that has no shoes on, your first reaction would be hes an idiot, but Ive seen these people live off just about nothing, there are so so many old school tricks that are not being used anymore its crazy, Different ways to store meat, raise chickens, make your cow produce more milk, or to get your chickens to start laying again, bc you didnt feed the right stuff to get there eggs hard, there is a millions ways to prepare but only certain ways to survive. Knowledge is everything, even if your a Redneck with one arm, no shoes and bad back, Im going to go with that guy and his buddies because they have already been roughing it there whole lives, get the point. I would start looking up all the old school ways of doing hard labour, and farming, then it might not be that hard when it does hit

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by mountaingirl1111

 

Obviously, survivalism is a needed skill and preparing for the worst never hurts, but if the STHF and I assume total chaos, and go out to the woods to live, but then society regroups within a few weeks and suddenly there's a NWO to resist, hanging out in the woods isn't going to be helping me any. If it's NWO, they'll find everyone in the woods and bring them back or just let them be to die. So preparing for decades of woods life instead of the more realistic NWO/global currency takeover (while always being prepared for the random disaster) will serve me better, right?

Don't be innocent enough to assume that everyone will band togeather like Robin Hood's merry men and fight for a common cause, you will have to fight for everything, water, shelter, food, even your life. Some people would not bat an eyelid at eating another person just to keep alive, if you are not the chef, then you will become the dinner, there will be nothing to be proud about the things which will be needed just to stay alive. No civilised bartering a pig for some clothes or whatever, if you have it, someone will take it from you and probably informally invite you to dinner, although you will be the main course.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I'd first like for someone to give an honest explanation of WHY this global economic/social collapse would happen in the first place?

Who benefits?

You think the elite want the globe to burn...just because

You think they can control the masses once it starts to truly freefall

Nobody benefits, and there's no real indication that it's necessary, or imminent.

People who think otherwise seem to be projecting their unconscious desire to do their selves harm.

They want their world to burn because they can't stand the one they've created.

You're obviously unfamiliar with the multi-quadrillion dollar derivatives bubble. And the utterly unsustainable amounts of crushing debt the US has accumulated alone. Not to mention the Eurozone. Sure, nothing to worry about.

Have you heard about the global leaders from Europe to China to Russia calling for a global currency they can control 100%? Obviously not. Think on it a little.

Get a life.

A little defensive? Testy? My my, how amazingly adult and productive your contribution is.

If a collapse happens, a new structure will replace it ASAP. Even if it's just black markets, it will pop up and trade will continue.

There's only so many things that can collapse the world economy, and these freaking abstractive black holes aren't one of them. Look more to natural, tangible limitations...and that's still a while away.

Had you read the entirety of the thread, you would know this has been my point. Had you read this page alone, you would have gotten it. Reading: it does a conversation good.

reply to post by Qwenn


Can you show me a case of documented cannibalism in the cities during the 30's depression? Like, a single one?

reply to post by Glassbender777


I live in SC. My husband's family are good old boys and gals. They live in the country, on land. I grew up on a farm with woods. I got it, don't worry.

Originally posted by 00nunya00
You're obviously unfamiliar with the multi-quadrillion dollar derivatives bubble. And the utterly unsustainable amounts of crushing debt the US has accumulated alone. Not to mention the Eurozone. Sure, nothing to worry about.

Don't make those assumptions, please. I'm aware, but fail to see how this is going to lead to global anarchy. This leap of logic is.....mindless.

Have you heard about the global leaders from Europe to China to Russia calling for a global currency they can control 100%? Obviously not. Think on it a little.

Yes, it's been going on for years. Control 100% Get real, kid.