The coming collapse: what should one expect? How does one survive?

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posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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Like others have mentioned. GET OUT of the city! I live in Denver and have a storage unit in the mountains. I have everything I need to last a good year. If we are hit by an EMP, there will be no means of transportation, other than what you can carry on your back. So all that food you saved up will mean squat. Try to obtain materials you can use to hunt, fish, trap, etc... As long as you can get out of the city, you can survive. Try to obtain an older vehicle that won’t be affected by an EMP. Have the extra parts shielded. If hit by an EMP, have all the electronics shielded in metal container. Wrap all electronics in aluminum foil, and then put them in a shielded metal box. If you have family, setup a destination to meet if separated. Cell phones will no longer work.

And of course....Everything for self defence, shelter, water, etc...

Our final destination is 10 miles off the main drag in a small valley in the mountains. Make sure family can get there on foot if need be.There is a small creek that provides melt off from the mountains for water. If you have no means for filtering the water, boil it. A small cap of beach in 3 to 5 gallons of water will help kill all the little critters.

I don’t have the time to give more details right now, but those are some of the basics.

-Propulsion
edit on 30-4-2012 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)
edit on 30-4-2012 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


That was not a SHTF situation, there was still a strong infrastructure going on, it was not a total disaster zone, just a proportion of society. In a total collpse situation, anything goes, without the infrastructure in place to regulate the behaviour of the individuals.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by 00nunya00
You're obviously unfamiliar with the multi-quadrillion dollar derivatives bubble. And the utterly unsustainable amounts of crushing debt the US has accumulated alone. Not to mention the Eurozone. Sure, nothing to worry about.


Don't make those assumptions, please. I'm aware, but fail to see how this is going to lead to global anarchy. This leap of logic is.....mindless.


Care to explain, in detail, why you among actual *respected* economists are an authority to speak on how everything is kosher and no bubbles will burst anymore, even though they've been slowly bursting for 4 years now, building up from the smaller bubbles to the biggest bubbles that are left? Enlighten us all on why everything will be lollipops and rainbows, please.



Have you heard about the global leaders from Europe to China to Russia calling for a global currency they can control 100%? Obviously not. Think on it a little.


Yes, it's been going on for years. Control 100%
Get real, kid.


Okay, sweetheart. You keep stuffing your little cash in the bank and buying your adorable little stocks. You're right, we're all going to be patting you on the back soon with how amazingly this economy will rebound! Bless your heart.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


No, I don't answer strawmans.

/thread



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by 00nunya00
 


No, I don't answer strawmans.

/thread


You mean /your useless participation in thread.




posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


I don't know. Read some books. Earth Abides is a good start.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Master_007
 


Well, you can drop by with your gun and be greeted by 10 shotguns in your face, LOL. A country boy can survive.


your shotguns won't count for anything against my suppressed sniper rifle


not that I have any negative intentions
edit on 30-4-2012 by Gwampo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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If we have a collapse of the financial institutions, in the short term, money would be useless.

So you have to meet your needs either by yourself or with a group. The questions to ask yourself would be how to I get the things that I need to survive if my money is useless?

The answers are many. First food. You can stock up on non-perishable items in advance. You can also take up gardening. I just planted several more varieties of heirloom tomatoes this weekend. The heirloom vegetables have seeds that can be used to plant again next season.

I live in the country and there is land and water so gardening is something that we do for fun, but in the event of a financial collapse, it's something that we would take much more seriously.

We also raise chickens. They eat the leftovers from the garden and we supplement with feed from the local feed store.

Back to the topic. If there is a collapse, we may enter into a barter economy for a while. What types of things would have value? My list of items to barter includes canned foods, fresh food, alcohol (I make wine) and there are other obvious things that you could stock up on now including guns, bullets, silver, gold, tools, etc. If you have to trade for my food that I grow, you have to have something that I'd want.

So, if the dollar suddenly starts losing value on a weekly basis, then convert your dollars into merchandise that you can trade to others if the need be.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Qwenn

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by mountaingirl1111
 


Obviously, survivalism is a needed skill and preparing for the worst never hurts, but if the STHF and I assume total chaos, and go out to the woods to live, but then society regroups within a few weeks and suddenly there's a NWO to resist, hanging out in the woods isn't going to be helping me any. If it's NWO, they'll find everyone in the woods and bring them back or just let them be to die. So preparing for decades of woods life instead of the more realistic NWO/global currency takeover (while always being prepared for the random disaster) will serve me better, right?


Don't be innocent enough to assume that everyone will band togeather like Robin Hood's merry men and fight for a common cause, you will have to fight for everything, water, shelter, food, even your life. Some people would not bat an eyelid at eating another person just to keep alive, if you are not the chef, then you will become the dinner, there will be nothing to be proud about the things which will be needed just to stay alive. No civilised bartering a pig for some clothes or whatever, if you have it, someone will take it from you and probably informally invite you to dinner, although you will be the main course.


Well, you're just assuming that I meant I WOULD band together with anyone else. All family lives in the Midwest; it's just my husband, 2 kids, and myself. I know people advocate banding together, but I wouldn't trust anyone else. Where we'd be, if someone came along, they could easily catch their own food and get their own water. Wouldn't have anything to give. Again, not running for the hills with food stores, necessarily, not like you're assuming. What we get, anyone in the area would be able to get for themselves. If you've never been in the Colorado wilderness, you have no idea what you are assuming about me and my family. This isn't forest preserve or state park country, this is the wilderness. I see that you have quite a fixation on cannibalism
The Donner Party comes to mind, no? The thing about that was it was poor planning and understanding of the terrain, climate, and other factors. Not necessarily the same. Not saying people wouldn't eat others, but I'd probably see that more in the city or other areas that would be more stressed than the middle of absolutely nowhere. Coloradans know what I mean.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Gwampo

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Master_007
 


Well, you can drop by with your gun and be greeted by 10 shotguns in your face, LOL. A country boy can survive.


your shotguns won't count for anything against my suppressed sniper rifle


not that I have any negative intentions
edit on 30-4-2012 by Gwampo because: (no reason given)


Unless you know to make ammunition your sniper rifle will be useless within a few decades. Gun powder deteriorates rather rapidly. I'd go for a cross bow.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


Why would the power grid go down? Let's see: America has virtually no heavy industry to speak of today. Sure, we'll have power for a little while - just until there is a major equipment failure. Even if the workers continue to go to work when they are not being paid (yeah, there might be a few altruistic individuals who will work for free) but when the transformer at your local substation goes down, the grid automatically compensates by rerouting power from the next facility up the line. Until IT is overloaded and passes the load upstream. This cascade effect will eventually take out a big transformer..and then the fun begins. There are no spares for the big transformers. They are special order from China - with a long delivery time. Thats assuming that China will ship one out when there is no guarantee that they will ever be paid. Once the economy collapses international trade comes to a screeching halt. And that doesn't even address the power plants themselves - again no spare generators lying around waiting to be needed.

Once the grid goes down it's Mad Max time. Everything stops working including the government.
edit on 30-4-2012 by Tholidor because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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I'm watching Spain now, 25% unemployment, I think once it starts to collapse, and the rest of Europe panics, the panic will spread, but not to Russia or China, they will consolidate and ride it out, then the wars of conquest will start, China will move west, by-passing India, and Russia will move south/south east, untill Russia and China meet.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by pikestaff
I'm watching Spain now, 25% unemployment, I think once it starts to collapse, and the rest of Europe panics, the panic will spread, but not to Russia or China, they will consolidate and ride it out, then the wars of conquest will start, China will move west, by-passing India, and Russia will move south/south east, untill Russia and China meet.


And you think the US won't step in? ...just let it happen? Paranoid as they are..



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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After the collapse comes, things will never get back to what you consider to be "normal". Humans will survive yes, but will be transform forever. Things like this have happened throughout history, but we don't have precedent for one of such magnitude. Think the dark ages that came after the collapse of the Roman Empire...then multiply that by 10.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Master_007
Thats nice

Me well i plan on dropping by with my gun and asking you nicely to lend me some food to keep me going if the army or police have not already paid you a visit and cleaned you out.

Better to die than let the bankers take our money and turn those that are left into slaves or allow a police state so i will be fighting anyway and every way i can.


Yikes. Slight change in outlook then. Love thy neighbour, but if Master_007 comes by, shoot first.

(Sorry, dude. That was too ripe a plum to not pick.)



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by zroth
 


Yeah, I hear that, and it's good info----but I'm not really asking for help in making my personal plan, but rather what I can expect from the economy and market on a smaller scale----what will be on the market shelves two years out from the collapse? Will there be markets at all? Will we already be back to TV dinners? That's what I'm looking for.


I expect everything will be more localized especially any currencies which will only be useable in that town. Also
Expect a very harsh environment and maybe even lots of gangs ruling certain areas. As i expect it, we wont ever see large cities, power grids, ultilities and any local or federal government that survives will probably be like a large gang bullying the smaller towns or cities even worse then they do now! We may also have some limited nuclear war to get rid of the larger cities! I expect there to be anywhere from 55% to 85% population reductions in the developed countries! As for developing nations, they will probably be alot better off to handle a collapse! I can imagine that for the first several years after a collapse it will be very hard to stay alive but trying to keep a family alive will be a whole other hell! Unless you are a prepper, live in the country, you have farmable land, you have seed to plant and fuel to run your equipment! Will need at least 1 year to 18 months of supplys and then stuff to trade: like Booze, cigarettes, coffee, water supply, sugar, flour, powdered milk, batteries, solar cells and any other stuff that would be a necessity or a vice! As for the markets return i expect a return to the preindustrial era which we will call the post industrial era! Everything that you will be able to purchase will probably be from 50 miles or less!
Eventually we will see a return to some normalcy but never like it was! I expect things to start to happen by the end of this year or beginning of next! Also when we see the Euro start to collapse that is when we are weeks away from a similar event here in the US! Though we could see the world unite instead of panicing but I don't believe that we will do that because right before this collapse happens there will be so many things wrong that most of us will be in a state of panic already! I for one have no intention of panicing but just because i don't intend for that to happen does'nt mean it wont! It will sure be hard to maintain composure once we see our neighbors and friends in a frenzy state! On this day we may see our sanity get kicked to the curb and if that does happen, God help us! Goodluck everyone! I will pray for us all!



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Apollo7
 


Why would the power grid go down? We're not talking about a natural disaster, we're talking about people making choices. Do you really think that just because the economy collapsed, that those who run the power grid would just stay home and not go to work, or that the power company would say "well, we're not sure if you're going to pay your bills, so we're pre-emptively cutting *everyone* off"? That's unrealistic. The government would step in and secure the power supply stayed up. Letting the grid go down would be suicide, and I think it's silly to assume they'll do it right away, just because of economic collapse. They will seize control of it and never give control back.

Also, why would banks lose customer info? You do realize that computers don't have to stay on to be able to store info, right? You do realize all of that is on backup, right?

I guess I don't understand where all of this "as soon as it happens, hit the woods and never come back" comes from. If we're talking about a solar flare that takes out our electrical grid, then sure, all of this is relevant. But what makes everyone think that this time, unlike last time, we will be thrown back into the stone age for good? I still haven't seen that explanation yet.


Are you really serious? Do you think when the dollar collapses and people can't purchase food that they are going to still go to work? LOL
They are going to stay with their families, going to get out of the cities with everyone else!
People really have no clue how fast everything can just end!
Wake up people if it's not fixed before it happens everyone will panic!



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by pikestaff

Originally posted by samkent



I'm looking for input on what we should expect in the years following the inevitable global economic collapse.

I suggest you do the same thing you did durng the last global economic collapse.

Now when was that???? Like NEVER???

The slow collapse of the Roman empire starting in 1400 AD?? The British isles went through hell once the last legion left, 'Europe' did not have to good either.


You can't compare the roman empire to today because back then things took forever to get from one place to another but today everything happens in minutes instead of weeks or months so when we do collapse expect it to happen in days or weeks instead of years or decades!



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
I'm certain that we can expect the collapse to always be coming. It's always coming and never arrives.


Exactly.

The collapse has already happened for many people, they have lost everything.

If people think there is going to be one big chaotic mess of a collapse, think again it's not going to happen and here is why.

As long as the civilized world has sports, alcohol, MSM, banks that make money from thin air and dancing with the stars, the majority of the people will never question a thing. Think I am joking? Just start talking about how things are going to collapse at a gathering and see how many people actually give a squat.

Only a select few choose to empower themselves and truly live off of the grid, but most people have no idea, nor would they want to leave the comforts they have come to know.

This massive collapse will never happen, only isolated pockets that TPTB will quickly extinguish with propaganda and empty promises.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Tholidor
reply to post by 00nunya00
 


Why would the power grid go down? Let's see: America has virtually no heavy industry to speak of today. Sure, we'll have power for a little while - just until there is a major equipment failure. Even if the workers continue to go to work when they are not being paid (yeah, there might be a few altruistic individuals who will work for free) but when the transformer at your local substation goes down, the grid automatically compensates by rerouting power from the next facility up the line. Until IT is overloaded and passes the load upstream. This cascade effect will eventually take out a big transformer..and then the fun begins. There are no spares for the big transformers. They are special order from China - with a long delivery time. Thats assuming that China will ship one out when there is no guarantee that they will ever be paid. Once the economy collapses international trade comes to a screeching halt. And that doesn't even address the power plants themselves - again no spare generators lying around waiting to be needed.

Once the grid goes down it's Mad Max time. Everything stops working including the government.
edit on 30-4-2012 by Tholidor because: (no reason given)


Okay, that is a GREAT point, and one I had not considered for the long-term. Thank you! I think we would try to get that industry rolling again, but it would take a whole lotta time. You're right, then, we should not depend on the electrical grid *long term*.





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