The coming collapse: what should one expect? How does one survive?

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posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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Have people accounted to what will happen to nuclear power plants in light of global economic collapse? Especially Fukushima, given that TEPCO is already near bankrupt and needs money to keep the plant stable?

If nuclear plants blow because people don't tend to them or can't get resources to them, it doesn't matter what your survival strategy is; the world will die.




posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom
 


The government would step in as much as they can for as long as they can; I'm not putting any faith or stock in them, but I'm saying it wouldn't be Monday: Crash. Tuesday: No one goes to work and everything collapses. It will take time for people to get what's going on and understand they aren't going to get paid, ever, even with the promises.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by randyvs
I'm certain that we can expect the collapse to always be coming. It's always coming and never arrives.


Exactly.

The collapse has already happened for many people, they have lost everything.

If people think there is going to be one big chaotic mess of a collapse, think again it's not going to happen and here is why.

As long as the civilized world has sports, alcohol, MSM, banks that make money from thin air and dancing with the stars, the majority of the people will never question a thing. Think I am joking? Just start talking about how things are going to collapse at a gathering and see how many people actually give a squat.

Only a select few choose to empower themselves and truly live off of the grid, but most people have no idea, nor would they want to leave the comforts they have come to know.

This massive collapse will never happen, only isolated pockets that TPTB will quickly extinguish with propaganda and empty promises.


And this is my point about why they would *want* a collapse to happen so they can step in fairly quickly and "solve all of our problems and save us from starvation and loss of TV" by introducing the global currency and global rule scheme. As long as they still promise DWTS and Jersey Shore, people will buy into it wihtout question. Life will continue relatively the same in many ways, except for the people who resist the new order. That's where the danger lies, IMHO. Global civil war.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
Have people accounted to what will happen to nuclear power plants in light of global economic collapse? Especially Fukushima, given that TEPCO is already near bankrupt and needs money to keep the plant stable?

If nuclear plants blow because people don't tend to them or can't get resources to them, it doesn't matter what your survival strategy is; the world will die.


Maybe that's half the beauty of nuclear power; if folks stop coming to work, their families and friends will die. Pretty strong motivation to keep clocking in without pay, when you're the only one qualified to save your species.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Shadowalker
 


I've seen it, good stuff! But it only goes about a year out-----doesn't really talk about how quickly "society" gets back on its feet and assumes mass unavoidable deaths-----our people will be tearing down the system looking for food and water, not hiding in their houses and dying in their beds. How do you expect our government to react----isn't it kind of guaranteed NWO takeovers will happen? They won't let our society die that easily when there are still so many profits to be made on us-----do they round us up and cut off our country-living access in order to keep the collective together and controlled?


Well actually no it shows the end result of society as agriculture and early industrial. I think there are some versions that are incomplete. at the 2 year point the family is farming and most all of the violence is contained in the cities with people scraping them out.The end shows the son at about the fathers age.

This particular show is one I outlined and rewound to get the 4 pages of expert testimony as well as make note of what was going on in the main story. I think to make sense of the facts it needs to be outlined as its shown by weeks. They avoid cannibalism altogether, but most people are not ready for that topic.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by MindFever

Originally posted by Gwampo

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Master_007
 


Well, you can drop by with your gun and be greeted by 10 shotguns in your face, LOL. A country boy can survive.


your shotguns won't count for anything against my suppressed sniper rifle


not that I have any negative intentions
edit on 30-4-2012 by Gwampo because: (no reason given)




Unless you know to make ammunition your sniper rifle will be useless within a few decades. Gun powder deteriorates rather rapidly. I'd go for a cross bow.



Who told you gun powder deteriorates?

I have ammo stamped 1923,1927,1943, 1944 lots of 50s and 60s dates as well as 70s and 80s.

All of it goes bang when you pull the trigger.

Must have been someone with no real experience in the matter. There are some bad ammo manufactures from 3rd world banana republics that should be avoided. But those should have been avoided when new as well.
edit on 30-4-2012 by Shadowalker because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Great thread and some great replies. Personally, living in the UK I'm papping myself if the Euro collapses. Unfortunately there are just too many things pointing to the fact that it will collapse, seems more of an inevitability now. I don't really subscribe to the world following suit but I am open to the idea and this thread is definitely a good read to help preparations.

What worries me most is the nuclear power plants. If the world really does collapse and these plants are left long enough to go critical, we really are screwed. Especially over here. We just don't have the land mass to escape hundreds of miles from those plants. Going nuclear was possibly one of the worst decisions this world has ever come up with. As scientifically great as it is, and however much it has opened the door to other advancements it really was a poor idea (for want of a better word).

In all honesty I'm one of those that will probably last days at best. I have a military background and I can shoot the wings off a fly (well, without the added pressure of that fly possibly shooting back anyway), but we don't have easy access to guns over here so self defence is out of the question barring hand to hand or cross bows etc. I simply couldn't survive in the woods farming etc, I don't have the knowledge and right now I just don't have the foresight to get together a bug-out bag let alone what to put in it or where I'd go once that bag is on back! Unfortunately, like many others (born in the 80's), I've been brought up in a pink and fluffy electronic world where the end will simply never come. My naivety and belief in humanity will be the end of me I reckon. Time to start learning...... I think so.....

chocky



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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When tshtf and our goverments havnt contained it within two weeks I would seriously get out any city and I would if I were you prep for at least a year include seeds of all descriptions flowers as well your going to need them and annimals for breeding for food if your or when your preps run out material for clothing
Antibiotics if possible.
Tools of every type. Building etc.and as for gas u could stock up on it but I would also look for other more long term ideas ie wood stove



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy
 


Forget TEPCO and their problems. After a controlled shutdown, the reactor cores and spent fuel pools require cooling for years (not weeks, or months but YEARS). Studies have shown (and no, I don't have the references in front of me, but it's easy to search) that even in the highly unlikely event that there are no failures of the emergency generators, etc., using all the available tanker trucks to haul every last drop of diesel fuel currently available to the nuclear plants of the world it would be impossible to maintain cooling until the reactors and pools are "cool" enough to prevent their melting down.

Not to be too much of a doomsayer, but it is inevitable that every nuclear reactor in the world will become a Fukushima in time. The only sane solution would be to shut down all the nuke plants right now - but that, in and of itself, would be enough to cripple the grid as it now exists.

Your conclusion is, unfortunately for us, a valid one absent Divine (or ET) intervention.
edit on 30-4-2012 by Tholidor because: Spelling is not my strong suite...LOL



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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The strictly economic angle is one where people are following along but then dont even look around.

China for instance made the call on the derivatives bubble way back before anyone even gave it a second thought. They have eased out from under a huge portion of US debt, but they did one thing no one but the Chinese even seem to know about.

They have been encouraging their citizens to not save yaun in banks but to buy and hold both gold and silver in whatever small amounts they could afford. Jewelry, and small silver and very small gold ingots are regular purchases for the Chinese. This is on their TV constantly, to make China strong and to make the Chinese people independent from global currency. Its their ace in the hole and they may just come out as the most wealthy nation per capita once the bubble pops.

Very intelligent plan.

You can see here they mint Pandas down to 1/8th ounce silver so even the poor can buy at a proportional rate.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Interesting thread. I don't have time to contribute a bunch, but a couple of thoughts.

If there is a "financial collapse" (which in and of itself could take several forms with slightly different effects and consequences) figure the following.

1. Prices, unemployment, commidates prices (including fuel and food) all skyrocket.
2. The government closes or restricts the banks and possibly purchasing. Runs on both banks and food occur.
3. Austerity measures limit government services, including utilities. There will be power and water available (possibly even at no charge, just to prevent total anarchy, but only in limited amounts and at limited times).
4. The welfare checks stop (or the amounts provided won't cover anything) so the inner cities and low socio economic areas implode. Government likely WON"T step in, they will essentially let the problems "eliminate" themselves, and will only prevent movement out of the poor areas into the middle and upper class areas, at least at first.
5. The suburbs and middle class will likely fair ok, for awhile, but some of them may collapse into anarchy too. this is when the real martial law starts.
6. After about 30-60 days of anarchy, the debts, at least national and government and large banks will be reset to zero and the global currency will step in, and likely with it some form of global governance. Likely this leads to everyones NWO.......BUT....you may have eliminated debts, and substantially reduced the welfare class, which has become an economic drain instead of a contributer. ( I am not advocating this, but I could certainly see it happening). Of course the upper middle class then becomes the new "working" class....which sets up all sorts of interesting possibilites.


Could pan out several other ways too. For example. My personal thought is while the US as a whole is doing bad, some states are doing farily well. Oklahoma and Texas have oil, natural gass, wheat, corn, cattle industry....that's food and fuel, economies based on NEEDED supplies. The economy in these places is doing fairly well. Texas especially has it's own electrical grid. States like these might secede and try to go on their own, or as confederations, maybe start printing their own money and selling their products out right. Could get REAL interesting.....
edit on 30-4-2012 by SrWingCommander because: clarification.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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We don't really have a plan, but I think we could make it ok. We have a garden, we are close to a mountain river so I could get fresh water, we have chickens, I have places further into the mountains that I could go. (right now I'm just along the foothills of the Rocky Mountains here in Colorado). We have a fireplace so if I had to I could cook food in there. I know how to sew and have fabric enough to last a while, although it may not be super fashionable. I can cook like nobodies business from scratch, I was taught by three southern women growing up how to cook the 'right way" lol. I could grow and mill my own wheat if needed, although that would be a little bit harder. I think that it would be hard, but that we could make it ok.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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I don't see a collapse, I see a slow grinding shut down of a great many economic activities.

As gas and oil prices continue to rise, living in these suburban rat mazes will no longer be feasible. Importing goods from the other side of the planet will also no longer be economically feasible.

People will start making goods for barter from home. There are a lot of incredibly inventive people out there, and I think it won't take long for a new cottage industry to develop. I could see a lot of people building light weight electric vehicles in their garages. Windmill generators getting to be common. People who know how to build things, make technology work at a utility level, will become very valuable.

I don't see the electrical grid as shutting down for a long time.

People will stop paying their bills according to priority. Cable and satellite TV will be the first to go, if not credit card debts. Insurance, car payments, mortgage payments probably in this order. Loan companies will simply not have the ability to force payment, and likely not repossession or eviction. Banks simply won't have the money to forcibly go after debts.

Last bills people give up on will be cell phone and electricity.

Take your money out of the banks, put it into credit unions. The banks will be the first to go down. Obviously, don't trust the stock market.

Newly immigrated multi-ethnic communities will quickly segregate.

The first trouble will begin in the communities around the ghettos. Unemployment is very high in those communities, eventually things are going to start getting desperate.

Maybe we will start to see a level of recovery. There has to be people in positions of power who see the big factors that are going to re-shape our economy over the next decade.

We should also continue to see worse and worse weather extremes. A great deal of the most wealthy occupy places that are very sensitive to environmental change. As global warming continues, a great many wealthy communities will be hit the hardest with environmental change. From water shortages and fire hazards in places like LA and Texas, to rising ocean levels impacting Martha'a Vineyard and other wealthy enclaves.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Sadly to say, if you have to ask these questions: its probably already too late.

It has always been a good idea to have contingency plans in place, the ability to hopefully survive whatever life throws your way. An example of this would be stocking up on goods and supplies, munnitions, weaponry, and all sorts of things that will be priceless in an anarchy state.

Also, if you have a family you care about, you should all agree on a meeting point. In the case of most disasters, your cell phones will most likely be rendered useless.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by Shadowalker
 


Spot on, star for you.

Thanks!



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by SrWingCommander
Interesting thread. I don't have time to contribute a bunch, but a couple of thoughts.

If there is a "financial collapse" (which in and of itself could take several forms with slightly different effects and consequences) figure the following.

1. Prices, unemployment, commidates prices (including fuel and food) all skyrocket.
2. The government closes or restricts the banks and possibly purchasing. Runs on both banks and food occur.
3. Austerity measures limit government services, including utilities. There will be power and water available (possibly even at no charge, just to prevent total anarchy, but only in limited amounts and at limited times).
4. The welfare checks stop (or the amounts provided won't cover anything) so the inner cities and low socio economic areas implode. Government likely WON"T step in, they will essentially let the problems "eliminate" themselves, and will only prevent movement out of the poor areas into the middle and upper class areas, at least at first.
5. The suburbs and middle class will likely fair ok, for awhile, but some of them may collapse into anarchy too. this is when the real martial law starts.
6. After about 30-60 days of anarchy, the debts, at least national and government and large banks will be reset to zero and the global currency will step in, and likely with it some form of global governance. Likely this leads to everyones NWO.......BUT....you may have eliminated debts, and substantially reduced the welfare class, which has become an economic drain instead of a contributer. ( I am not advocating this, but I could certainly see it happening). Of course the upper middle class then becomes the new "working" class....which sets up all sorts of interesting possibilites.


Could pan out several other ways too. For example. My personal thought is while the US as a whole is doing bad, some states are doing farily well. Oklahoma and Texas have oil, natural gass, wheat, corn, cattle industry....that's food and fuel, economies based on NEEDED supplies. The economy in these places is doing fairly well. Texas especially has it's own electrical grid. States like these might secede and try to go on their own, or as confederations, maybe start printing their own money and selling their products out right. Could get REAL interesting.....
edit on 30-4-2012 by SrWingCommander because: clarification.


^^^THIS, all of it.

Totally agree, and thank you for your timeline guess, and specific breakdown of events, that's precisely the input I'm looking for!

I agree about the food and electric being free, but never enough. That's where the control really is for the masses---food and power (water, of course, as well). Control the food, power and currency of a people and they are complete slaves, with no way out. Once it's global, it's over----no going back without tearing the entire world down and shedding blood in waves.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Great points, and I think you're right with the "collapse" being a bit more protracted than we might expect. You make a good point about the real trouble beginning in the lower-income areas and then spreading. It might be closer to your frog-in-the-pot scenario than a total-apocalypse-in-one-day than we think.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by AlonzoTyper
 


Seriously, please read the second sentence in the OP. I don't need help with my emergency plans, I'm looking for input on the long-term prospects and what to expect. Your "it's too late" warnings are lost on virtually everyone in this thread; we're already ready and anticipating the end.



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00

Originally posted by SrWingCommander
Interesting thread. I don't have time to contribute a bunch, but a couple of thoughts.

If there is a "financial collapse" (which in and of itself could take several forms with slightly different effects and consequences) figure the following.

1. Prices, unemployment, commidates prices (including fuel and food) all skyrocket.
2. The government closes or restricts the banks and possibly purchasing. Runs on both banks and food occur.
3. Austerity measures limit government services, including utilities. There will be power and water available (possibly even at no charge, just to prevent total anarchy, but only in limited amounts and at limited times).
4. The welfare checks stop (or the amounts provided won't cover anything) so the inner cities and low socio economic areas implode. Government likely WON"T step in, they will essentially let the problems "eliminate" themselves, and will only prevent movement out of the poor areas into the middle and upper class areas, at least at first.
5. The suburbs and middle class will likely fair ok, for awhile, but some of them may collapse into anarchy too. this is when the real martial law starts.
6. After about 30-60 days of anarchy, the debts, at least national and government and large banks will be reset to zero and the global currency will step in, and likely with it some form of global governance. Likely this leads to everyones NWO.......BUT....you may have eliminated debts, and substantially reduced the welfare class, which has become an economic drain instead of a contributer. ( I am not advocating this, but I could certainly see it happening). Of course the upper middle class then becomes the new "working" class....which sets up all sorts of interesting possibilites.


Could pan out several other ways too. For example. My personal thought is while the US as a whole is doing bad, some states are doing farily well. Oklahoma and Texas have oil, natural gass, wheat, corn, cattle industry....that's food and fuel, economies based on NEEDED supplies. The economy in these places is doing fairly well. Texas especially has it's own electrical grid. States like these might secede and try to go on their own, or as confederations, maybe start printing their own money and selling their products out right. Could get REAL interesting.....
edit on 30-4-2012 by SrWingCommander because: clarification.


^^^THIS, all of it.

Totally agree, and thank you for your timeline guess, and specific breakdown of events, that's precisely the input I'm looking for!

I agree about the food and electric being free, but never enough. That's where the control really is for the masses---food and power (water, of course, as well). Control the food, power and currency of a people and they are complete slaves, with no way out. Once it's global, it's over----no going back without tearing the entire world down and shedding blood in waves.


I have to agree as well all true right here and this is absolutely scary, is moving to south america a good idea I was thinking about that as well



posted on Apr, 30 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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I've been looking at the replies in the thread so far.

There are definitely a lot of possible scenarios.

I am personally of the belief that there are too many possibilities for collapse....

An economic collapse could lead to foreign countries making war to take the natural resources for themselves.

An economic collapse could lead to civil unrest - just look at Egypt or Syria.

An economic collapse does not necessarily infer that government will be around in any way shape or form. Governments need money - and they need some means to collect that money. If anything, governments would force higher taxes, till they've taken every last cent anyone has - if they are to continue to exist. This would include any paid standing army. You can't have an army, if you don't have money to pay.

When governments are short on money - it is not possible to tell how leaders will make up for the shortfall. They could resort to some really bad planning/corruption, and that would be the end of that. It remains to be seen how those people with money would behave. They aren't exactly the types that love taking care of people necessarily.

As for people, in small spaces like cities, it is entirely plausible that people will fight over various situations. It can become extra-ordinarily dangerous.

We cannot tell how fast governments and control and job situations will change. It depends on so many factors. Printing and distributing new currencies on the fly is a highly unlikely situation. The debt that the economies now suffer from - is a forced thing. Nobody is in uncontrollable debt, unless the notion is forced.

You can borrow money - but if the lender has no means to enforce collection - many a person would walk around as if it didn't exist.

This is why I say that the debt is a forced situation and that new currency generation and distribution is highly unlikely. If TPTB wanted to control the situation with free anything, they can easily do it with the currency currently in circulation.

For different people/different regions, the causes of a fall will be many. Perhaps there will be an outbreak of some deadly viruses etc...

One can not prepare for anything that might happen in it's entirety. It is too difficult to predict what factors will escalate deprivation. There may be all kinds of plans laid by those who decide on controls for overall situations in troubled times - but, if they knew what to do, the collapse scenarios might have been avoided to begin with. It is, on the other hand easy to see smaller "zones" of developed areas protected by smaller government. It is also easy to see the possibility that those who have resources, may choose to fund organizations of their own making to protect their assets.

The speed with which a collapse can occur does not lend itself to easy prediction either. If there is a sudden outbreak of an epidemic when things are relatively fragile economically, then that could be an accelerant in a decline. If governments decide to throw all their money at making war - then this could be an accelerant for decline. If infrastructure simply starts decaying beyond repair, everywhere, this could be an accelerant - take for instance roads, water mains, computer systems, various strike actions, etc.

I do, however, see opportunities for very tightly knit groups forming. If anything, they would need very good leaders to help keep them in line with what ever is needed for a minimal survival. It is highly unlikely that everyone will have all the skills necessary to make a survival - but many people might be capable of conjuring up what is needed, better than a few people.

I do also see good opportunities for people who you are closely familiar with, being your arch enemy as well.... since different people think very differently, and when pressed by the prospects of starvation, can become extra-ordinarily hostile.

As for infrastructure sticking around - don't count on it. If it gets to the point that few people have money, then there may be gangs roaming about destroying things. If there is too little money, public utilities for cities may get hard to maintain.... If there is too little money, utilities and other businesses may quickly shut off access to those who prove to be bad debts. There might come a point in time that only the extremely rich can get access to anything - as it would take an enormous investment to have services maintained.

Just as a story: The gangs threw stones and blew a transformer in the power system. The rich man calls the city and offers to pay for the trip for immediate restitution. Along the way, some gangs block certain roads and rip the tires of the repair truck. They're stuck. They call the rich man, who is forced to call a towing service to get their truck out to his area. The road is in disrepair along a certain route - and the driver has a narrow escape around the potholes in the road. GPS is no longer militarily paid for in this region... catch the drift?....





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