Miss Universe and Transgendered Contestants: A Tricky Social Issue

reply to post by RyanFromCan


Im just saying that the miss universe pageant is for people who were BORN female and she was not, so the rules shouldnt be changed because her feelings get a little hurt.

Originally posted by yuppa

Originally posted by eyesontheskies
reply to post by Partygirl

 

My opinion is that while talackova looks just like a woman its not a woman he is a man underneath all of the physical alterations. I just dont think it is really fair that the woman in the miss universe pageant have to go against someone that isnt really a woman. Plus there are plenty of trangendered pageants for transgendered people to be in. I think they are only considering changing the rule because people are getting their feelings hurt but people should just stop getting bent out of shape over things like this. I think if pure women cant be in transgendered pageants then transgenered men should not be allowed in a MISS universe pageant. just my opinion. Also it seems like one of the biggest problems are that she lied on the question in the application asking if she was born a female.

edit on 8-4-2012 by eyesontheskies because: (no reason given)

Ever think since her brain was female,but her body was male she put down female because her brain chemistry was that of a female? Donald trump says he will allow her to compete so its a moot point. He makes the rules and can amend them as he sees fit.

either way, im sure she knew that a question asking if she was born a female did not mean born a female at heart.

Originally posted by SG-17

Originally posted by Partygirl


There is an argument now over whether transgendered people (i.e., those who have undergone sex-change operations) should be allowed in beauty contests. Originally Mr./Ms. Talackova, above, was disqualified, although after loud complaints, they are considering whether or not to let him/her into the contest.

Calling her a "Mr" is extremely bigoted.

While her biological sex may be male, her gender is female.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
My god man, I think I am gay now. This... is unexpected.

Let this Trap enter.

She looks like a woman, she acts like a woman, she sounds like a woman, she identifies as a woman, and her gender is female. So no, you are not gay if you find her attractive (not that sexuality is a rigid spectrum anyway).

edit on 4/3/2012 by SG-17 because: (no reason given)

It is a mister.... fact. Sorry.

it's not a woman, it's not female...

therefore shouldn't even try to enter such a contest.

So sick of political correctness and it's trying to get all the sheep to have the exact same values and everyone be 100% tolerant removing what makes us human, individuality.


there is no "grey" area in this situation...

let it have a tranny universe competition for them.

There is a Mr universe competition, which Arnold Schwarzenegger won long ago. Let it join in the mr universe since it's genetically male or let it start it's own competition.

reply to post by glock19


Legally, she is.

More fact.

reply to post by Cito


Is there something wrong with you?

When did you get to decide such facts, and by what authority?

reply to post by ~Vixen~


I didn't say I enjoyed watching these competitions, and as a matter of fact I don't! These young women who parade across a stage, nervous as hell, but with pasted on phony smiles that have taken years of practice to obtain, then give the same well rehearsed speech they've been saying since highschool, do so believing they are indeed the most beautiful woman there! Out of let's say fifty contestants, that would leave forty nine heart broken young women that the sponsors kick to the kerb after the show is done! What is there to revere about that?
My point is that these competitions were meant for women, and as far as I'm concerned any male who has had his genitals lopped off (his body, his right) is still a male, and as such has no right entering a competition meant for females!
I know this is getting a bit off topic, but I'll try anyway...
My wife and I watched a show on television that was all about "beauty contests" for children. What those mothers do to those little kids is absolutely disgusting! Little girls should not be made up to look like teenagers, then sent on stage to try winning these disgusting competitions! What's wrong with these mothers' heads?

reply to post by ~Vixen~




Your quote

" When you dispute medical fact with biased generalised opinions"

Well from my point of view that is exactly how i see your stance!



With NO personal first hand knowledge of ME you are totally unaware of MY personal

circumstances and first hand experiences or knowledge on this subject.


Did you ever know that even 'doctors' have differing opinions on all aspects of medical

knowledge and treatments??

reply to post by Bkrmn





I fully agree with you on the children pushed into beauty pagents. Ambitious parents

[mostly mothers] living out their own fantasies. Pagents should not be allowed before the

age of 18 years

For the adult female it is a springboard to a very well paid job (cat walk and photographic

modelling TV presenting) All very lucrative ways of making a living, not to mention

a passport to meeting the RICH and FAMOUS. Didn't i read somewhere that Sarah Palin

was once a winner, i also think many 'film stars' started out that way (Halle Berry and

Kim Bassinger to mention a couple)

It is in the adult situation no different to 50 applications for a good job with the successful

applicant being the 'Winner'

In the old addage

"Any publicity is good publicity" OR "There is no such thing as bad publicity"

I wonder how true this is in this case. Jenna Talakova has had publicity that if she had to

pay for it would have cost more than she could probably afford, and more than any of the

other contestants.

People have short memories and in the 'hurly burly' excitement of the competitive

atmosphere any bad publicity will fade into the background and on 'looks alone' she stands

as much chance as any of the contestants. AND IF she doesn't win she can always fall

back on 'poor me' and the 'gender issue card' and milk it for all it's worth!!

My point being she has changed her name twice in line with changing her sex, now if

someone doesn't WANT noteriety they don't give interviews to the media, she could have

'slipped' into the competition without all this coming out, and the ensuing media circus.

Many people go through life without revealing 'personal details' about themselves to

the media or anyone else and take them to the grave!


SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC but an illustration of my meaning


Celebrities who feel the need to be guarded against the media are actually feeding the

frenzy, if they went about their business without expensive cars, stretch limo's and half

a dozen burly bodyguards they would probably go un noticed! Nobody looks at a small

family car going about their business. But i fear they are so addicted to the publicity and

their own self importance that they cannot do with out it. I wonder how much of

that is in this case?


PS One thing that cannot be disguised is hands and feet, and on the picture of the two

contestants [roughly the same size] - Notice the hands!!!

reply to post by Partygirl

This is a complete non issue. Trannies who wish to be identified as women should be treated as such, and if they're attractive enough to appear in a beauty contest then they're entitled to do so. Anything less is plain old discrimination. People who can't get their head around this are probably ignorant and bigoted. Many red blooded males find attractive feminine trannies very hot, and know that they'll get a lot more bang for their buck in bed as well.

Your argument about gay people ramming their lifestyle down your throat is a blatant lie and exposes you as an ignorant bigot. You rarely see public depiction of gay couples or gay sex anywhere in any media, as opposed to straight couples and straight sex, which you're bombarded with every day. The reality is that straight culture is rammed down gay peoples throats every day, but they'd never complain about this because they don't care, and straight people shouldn't care about the occasional depiction of gay lifestyle, however this makes all the homophobes and bigots go apoplectic. Fortunately this is changing, and soon most of the bigots will have died out.

This is the new face of the world, and quite honestly I don't think it is better in any manner. Let the trannys have a tranny competition. We need to stop blurring all the lines on everything. Sure striving for tolerance is one thing, but this, ..... this is madness.

Allow this today, and one day we'll be arguing over if animals and plants have the right to enter.

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Originally posted by wingsfan
This is the new face of the world, and quite honestly I don't think it is better in any manner. Let the trannys have a tranny competition. We need to stop blurring all the lines on everything. Sure striving for tolerance is one thing, but this, ..... this is madness.

Allow this today, and one day we'll be arguing over if animals and plants have the right to enter.

Any animal or plant that expresses the intent to enter the Miss Universe pageant has my 100% support.

The Universe is a big place, surely humans do not believe that transgendered women will be the most unusual entrants when we finally open this up to all of the universe.

reply to post by RyanFromCan

Just because you do not believe in them, does not mean they don't exist, this speaks more to you being a closed minded individual than to the non-existence of the disorders or conditions.

It's not close-mindedness. I believe the people feel the way they feel, I believe some kids have better attention spans than others, I believe some people are sad all the time, I believe some people identify more with the opposite sex than their own. I just don't think all of those things need a name and a pill to correct them.

The current mental health trend is to identify any behavior that is outside "the norm" and then give it a name, and then work on a way to correct it. To me, that seems pretty insane, we are not supposed to all look, feel, and act exactly the same, and we are not supposed to be medicating ourselves to avoid all the ups and downs in life.

Now, of course, some people have it far more severe than others, and there is nothing wrong with getting some counseling, but taking a pill or getting a surgery is taking it way beyond what I believe is healthy for us.

Starting to veer off-topic a little bit, but if someone feels like they are a woman trapped in a man's body, they can learn to deal with that openly and confidently without physically altering the body.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Starting to veer off-topic a little bit, but if someone feels like they are a woman trapped in a man's body, they can learn to deal with that openly and confidently without physically altering the body.

just for the sake of argument - let's assume for the moment that it's a given that nature sometimes blurs the gender in an individual

if you identify yourself as a man - but you were born in a woman's body - you're going to spend the rest of your life trying to be what people expect you to be even though every natural instinct you have is telling you you're something else. Can you even imagine?

this isn't about mental illness or trying to superficially treat a mental illness with a pill

all the counseling in the world isn't going to make you feel any less like a man where it counts - in your mind

the people who are in this situation - they choose to live their lives the way they feel instead of how others believe they should - even though it brings them nothing but misery in some ways

you're right - not everything is a mental health issue - and sometimes nature hands us situations that don't fit with our cultural beliefs

if someone is born with a cleft palate - should they just receive counseling and carry on because this is how they were born?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
The current mental health trend is to identify any behavior that is outside "the norm" and then give it a name, and then work on a way to correct it. To me, that seems pretty insane, we are not supposed to all look, feel, and act exactly the same, and we are not supposed to be medicating ourselves to avoid all the ups and downs in life.

Now, of course, some people have it far more severe than others, and there is nothing wrong with getting some counseling, but taking a pill or getting a surgery is taking it way beyond what I believe is healthy for us.

Starting to veer off-topic a little bit, but if someone feels like they are a woman trapped in a man's body, they can learn to deal with that openly and confidently without physically altering the body.

A friend of mine has a child of roughly 16 that has been going through a gender change for about.. maybe 5 months now. He is pre/op, no hormones, as the state of Oregon doesn't allow for that in minors. He has been talking with both other transpeople, men in general (including myself) to get a feel for what we have to say about gender roles in our society, and psychiatric professionals weekly about his decision, as is the standard for anyone seeking to begin a hormone or surgical option.

If he were anything other than the successful, artistic, smart, handsome kid that he is, I would question his choice more than I am. The truth is, he is well adjusted, save for the question of gender.

Besides, it's not like there are any social advantages to being one gender over another in our society right? Men, Women, treated equally. HA!

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Pardon my one liner, but well said. The same for all your posts. Thankyou :-)