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Originally posted by Cosmic911
Originally posted by ProfessorT
Bob Lazar may never be taken as a serious witness which is sad and unfortunate because many Ufologists believe his claims and they do seem credible enough although I seem to remember there were some issues surrounding his education claims, etc. Didn't he take a lie detector as well? He was the first person to really disclose anything from 'the inside' which you could say is the reason we're debating such a topic today - his input changed the world of Ufology for ever.
Bob is definitely an interesting person with a fascinating story. Many people believe him, many do not. I'd like to believe in him. Apparently there are no educational records verifying his credentials. Bob claims he attended MIT & CalTech. Those are pretty substantial claims. He hasn't produced a single shred of evidence or proof to back up those claims. Not a single document. Not a graduation tassle. Not a college sweat shirt. Nothing. Not a single student has verified that they were classmates. He claims the government has erased his education to discredit him.
Lie detectors can be fooled so no one really puts any faith in them. You can't use them in court so why believe what they say or do not say. He did disclose information on S-4. And I think Area 51 to some degree. George Knapp was able to locate his name in a Los Alamos Lab phone directory, although they denied he worked there. Some people say he probably was employed at Los Alamos as a sub-contractor or something, which is why they don't have any record of him being employed by them.edit on 30-12-2011 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by bluestreak53
Yes. "Open minds" does heavily promote hoaxes.
B: I knew Phil fairly well. He and I were speakers at several conferences together. And in Italy I got to know him pretty well. Phil shared with me things that he had had happen to him. Not just what he had seen, but that he had personal contact with an alien at White Sands.
He was in charge of the security of the range one time. And something came in, the radar picked it up. He hopped in his car and went out to see what the hell it was. There is a UFO sitting on the ground. There's a guy standing beside it, and Corso walks over to him and says, you know, "What the hell are you, who are you, and where are you from, and why are you here"?
This fellow says, "I just came to talk". Corso asks him, "Well, are you with us, or are you agin' us?" Simple military type question. You know, are you with me or are you against me? This guy says, "Neither, we're neither for you or are we against you". He had a conversation with this guy that lasted over an hour.
The guy says, "Please turn off your radar, it disturbs my control or my guidance system, so I can leave." Corso went back to the shop, or back to the headquarters, and turned off the radar... and away he went. I got to know through the old boys network dozens of guys like myself, who were as excited and enthused about the thing as I was.
Starting with the Diving Company who discovered a missing F-89 (and later a flying saucer!!!) on the bottom of Lake Superior. It turned out that the Diving Company did not exist and the guy who invented the hoax (who called himself "Adam Jimenez") took down his website and stopped answering phone calls. He has never been heard from again.
Or how about Clay and Shawn Pickering who claimed they knew a US Naval Officer who had been involved in Secret UFO Briefings at the UN. This dragged on for an incredible amount of time and Open Minds gave Clay and Shawn their own forum. It turned out their "Source A" was discovered to be Richard Thielmann, who was discovered to be making up all sorts of things, including his naval career.
Originally posted by bluestreak53
You're right! I can't prove it because I just made it up.
Just to make the point that the source seems to be taking some other person's account and adding all sorts of details.
While the Roswell incident certainly has many valid witnesses, it has unfortunately attracted a huge number of people who insist on piling on their own "mythology" which has made it much harder (perhaps made it impossible) to discern what is true, and what is just crap.
Originally posted by Anunaki10
In this interview Chief Golden Light Eagle "Standing Elk" mentioned that he was in "contact" with one of the Star races who "told him" of 18 UFO crashes in the United States in 1947 from 10 different star races visiting Earth, because "she" (one of the aliens who piloted one of the crashed UFOs) lost focus for just one second that allowed the combination of Atlantean energies, the experimentation of Radars and lightning storm to cause the UFO's engine/guidance system to malfunction that lead them to crash.
The soldiers could not approach the wreckage for some time, as it was radiating a lot of heat. Even more extraordinary were the four beings lying beside the crashed saucer. Barnett's account sensitively refers to these beings as "Freaks." The "Freaks" were screaming and clutching small boxes close to their chests. Barnett apparently arrived while it was still dark, since he says the army could not move in on the downed saucer and the "Freaks" until six A.M. The "Freaks" screamed louder as the GIs approached, and refused to give up their mysterious boxes. One soldier hit a "Freak" with the butt of his rifle and thereby persuaded the creature to part with its apparatus.
Three of the beings were taken away still alive. The fourth was dead (killed by the blow of an M1 butt?). The medical team was reluctant to treat the strange beings for their injuries, but they overcame their fear and rendered assistance. Barnett went on to film the wreckage. His statement describes the broken-up debris as being from exterior struts that supported a smaller disk on the underside (now up?) of the large saucer. The corpse of the dead "Freak" was packed in ice.
You do know that even the Air Force have admitted that it definitely wasn't a weather balloon don't you. You know that the Air Force report about Roswell - the fourth/fifth different story we have been insulted by - doesn't stand up to scrutiny even if you take the lowest standards of enquiry? You are aware of the efforts to silence and discredit people who.... In fact I'm not wasting any more breath.
Originally posted by PhilipMarquis89104
Obviously, it must be a government cover-up of some kind. It would be no fun at all if it really was no big deal.
Could you imagine the devistation it would cause to conspiracy junkies and UFO freaks if they ever found out it really was a weather balloon?
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Roswell was a BIG DEAL...and the thought that the USAF would spend all this time and effort to discredit and release report after report of something that others consider a non-event...has no logical basis.
Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by SplitInfinity
Pilots in the UK, especially military trained ones (which includes most commercial pilots) are the same. Unless it is something massive or they suspect passengers might report it in numbers they tend to keep silent. There are many exceptions but privately pilots admit they haven't reported everything they have encountered. I'm not sure what the situation is in other countries but my guess is that it is no different in Canada, Australia etc.
Originally posted by game over man
reply to post by SplitInfinity
So USAF pilots are witnessing UFO's in the process of what you think? Abductions? Secret Meetings? First time visiting? If there is no need to report a UFO, then someone knows what they must be doing? So pilots don't have to report them?
I know you said the main reason not to report a UFO is with the inevitable process which I'm assuming is your reputation and your career. Could the inevitable process be set up in such a way on purpose? So no one chooses to report a UFO?
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Yes...Pilots are supposed to report anything that might interfere with aviation...but the system has destroyed many carrers. Because of this...they don't report. My family member who flew F-15's and now is a big wig leader of a Union for a large airline....and who also was one of the USAF pilots who were assigned to escort Gorbachav on his visit and plane travels around the U.S.....has said...NO WAY is a guy going to throw away his entire military carrer and future to report UFO's....period! Split Infinity
“Soon, still in my flight suit, I stood at attention beside the telephone. I was told I had been on an extreme high secret mission; that I was to discuss it with no one, colleagues, no one. I was ordered to sleep that night at the air base and warned I would be getting a visit from someone from the US Embassy tomorrow.”
Next morning in the Squadron Operations area, a sergeant came for Torres and took him to an American sounding civilian in a dark trench coat.
The stranger flashed National Security Agency ID papers at him, then debriefed the pilot on last night’s mission and declared it was highly classified and was not to be discussed with anyone, not even his commander.
He threatened the young pilot with a national security breach. If he breathed one word about it - he’d never fly again!
I noticed that he didn't seem to want to go into detail for some strange reason. This was not normal for him. Normally, this man, a dedicated sailor and skilled technician, would have been eager to tell me anything he could about an aircraft mishap including his own speculations. But, not this time.
The navy would lose a plane somewhere ever so often and we would usually get word of it very quickly through unofficial channels in the naval aviation community—and personnel were usually eager to pass on what news they could. I knew my shipmate had friends in that squadron from previous visits he had made to Roosevelt Roads Naval Air Station or, "N.A.S. Rosy Roads", as we always called it. But, it was unusual to hear of two planes being lost in one day and even more unusual for it not to be due to a midair collision. And, as if that wasn't enough, it was becoming even more unusual because he was being reluctant to talk about it. I pressed him.
>>Well, what happened?Oh, I can't really talk about it>There's an investigation still ongoing...>Well, can you tell me anything else?