Man Shown Muammar Gaddafi and other people in Hell, on 24th November 2011

Originally posted by 547000
He created everything, we just live here, of course He makes the rules. You think a video game entity makes the rules by democratic process? No, whatever rules the programmer puts in stays.

Sure, but I also have a brain that tells me that his punishment is insane. Do you agree that we all deserve to burn forever?

If so, why don't you burn your children when they break your rules? It is a fitting punishment after all.

reply to post by Hydroman


Your children analogy breaks down when you realize that not everybody is His child. We may become adopted into His family but we are His creation.

It doesn't matter if we disagree with the programmer, we are just entities that have to live by the rules.

Originally posted by 547000
Your children analogy breaks down when you realize that not everybody is His child. We may become adopted into His family but we are His creation.

It doesn't matter if we disagree with the programmer, we are just entities that have to live by the rules.

Wrong again. The next time your neighbor children are over, and they break your rules, burn them to punish them. Or, just torture them for a few mintues. It is sane, is it not?

Besides, I wasn't the one who started with the analogy that they were my children, I just used that because that's what was given to me.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The "lmao" was in response to your statement of being stumped about how God could give someone an infinite sentence for finite sins. Which is quite hilarious considering we as humans don't sentence people to the amount of time it took to commit the crime. God is an eternal entity, separation from Him would be eternal in nature. Yes, Hell is torture, but it wan't made for humans, it was made for the devil and his angels. If a person chooses to align themselves with satan rather than the Lord then what else can God do besides give that person what they are asking for?

Is your god all-knowing, meaning he knows past, present, and the future? If so, when he created hell, he already knew who he would punishing there. Right? How could he not? Therefore, how could he say that he only made it for the devil and his angels? That is a lie.

Now, explain to me how punishing anyone for eternity in fire is just, even the fallen angels.

edit on 15-12-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

No, he did only make hell a prison to hold Lucifer and the rebel angels, man just ends up there as a storage facility until God throws them in the lake of fire and death and hell itself in it too. God does have foreknowledge of the future but he still gives you the option to repent. Pre-destination is a lie as it would conflict with the free will covenant. Yes you have free will to do whatever you want and serve whomever you want, but theres only 2 options on the table. That being God or Satan. If you pick option C and choose to serve yourself? Youre still serving Satan.

Man doesn't have the right to tell God what is just, he's the one who made the rules. This is his universe if we don't like it we can go find another universe to live in. Thats what my dad used to tell me when i was a teenager living with him "if you don't like the rules, get your own house and then you can do whatever you want".

Believe me, serving God is not an easy path. Its the hardest path to walk. Jesus said he was the truth, the way and the life, he didn't say it was going to be a picnic walking his road. I'll be the first to admit i am a sinner and i am far from being perfect in any regard to what Jesus is. Compared to him i am a wannabe but i can admit my faults and try to be better even though i mess up frequently. It's tough, it is definately no cakewalk.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
No, he did only make hell a prison to hold Lucifer and the rebel angels, man just ends up there as a storage facility until God throws them in the lake of fire and death and hell itself in it too. God does have foreknowledge of the future but he still gives you the option to repent.

Ok, so what you're saying is that god created hell to punish the devil and his angels only. So, being all knowing, when he created hell, this was his thought, "Hmmm, the devil and his angels need a place where I can punish them. Now, man is going to fall later, but I'll have to build some other place to punish them." Then, when man fell, he was like, "You know what, screw it, I'm just going to throw man in hell too, though I only made it for the devil and his angels." I wish you could realize how silly you sound when you try to justify your god torturing us in fire for all of eternity.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Man doesn't have the right to tell God what is just, he's the one who made the rules. This is his universe if we don't like it we can go find another universe to live in. Thats what my dad used to tell me when i was a teenager living with him "if you don't like the rules, get your own house and then you can do whatever you want".

Explain to me how I get my own universe. If I don't think something is just, that's my opinion. You may think it is just, and I would say you are not sane either, but again that's my opinion.

So, all you christians here, do this one thing for me. Remove your god goggles for one second, and be honest with me. Do you think it is just for your god to torture us in fire for all of eternity, even if we've been mostly "good"for our short lives here on this planet? By mostly "good" I mean, never killed anyone, never stolen something, didn't have premarital sex or an affair, etc. Sure, maybe told some lies, maybe lusted, maybe, drank a little, or said curse words. You know, someone who isn't perfect, but isn't an evil person either. Does that person deserve to be tortured in fire forever because they don't believe in Jesus and never accepted him, in your own opinion? And if so, why?

reply to post by Hydroman


There's a difference between human and God. You're treating Him like he is one of us. A God who is all-knowing knows how best to judge and mete out punishment. Humans do not.

Originally posted by 547000
There's a difference between human and God. You're treating Him like he is one of us. A God who is all-knowing knows how best to judge and mete out punishment. Humans do not.

Right, so you agree with his punishment, that it is just? Why not deal that punishment to your neighbor kids when they do wrong? Matter of fact, why don't we do this to all prisoners? Torture them the whole time they are there? What's wrong with it? As yourself, What Would Jesus Do? Well, he'd burn their asses. So, why not do it?

I am human, that is right, and I can tell when a god is insane.

Reading these responses this mental image pops up in my head. There are two children, and a stove. There is a sign above the stove that says "VERY HOT DO NOT TOUCH!" One of the chidren reads the sign, then immediately touches the stove and burns himself. The other child reads the sign and leaves the room w/o touching the stove.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Reading these responses this mental image pops up in my head. There are two children, and a stove. There is a sign above the stove that says "VERY HOT DO NOT TOUCH!" One of the chidren reads the sign, then immediately touches the stove and burns himself. The other child reads the sign and leaves the room w/o touching the stove.

What does that have to do with anything?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by 547000
There's a difference between human and God. You're treating Him like he is one of us. A God who is all-knowing knows how best to judge and mete out punishment. Humans do not.

Right, so you agree with his punishment, that it is just? Why not deal that punishment to your neighbor kids when they do wrong? Matter of fact, why don't we do this to all prisoners? Torture them the whole time they are there? What's wrong with it? As yourself, What Would Jesus Do? Well, he'd burn their asses. So, why not do it?

I am human, that is right, and I can tell when a god is insane.

edit on 16-12-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

STOP treating a GOD as a human. If one human does it to another human we might his authority. But a GOD does have authority. He makes the rules. He is the Alpha and the Omega,

I'm starting to think that the root of all woes is our inability to submit to authority.

reply to post by 547000

Ok, so do you agree that the punishment he deals out is just? Or does it not matter to you?

Should I be scared to say that I don't think his punishment is just, just because he's a god and he can make up whatever rules he wants? Can I not have the freedom to say that his punishment is insane?

reply to post by 547000

I'm starting to think that the root of all woes is our inability to submit to authority.

Yep, you cut right to the heart of the issue, we are prideful and rebellious.

Pride and rebellion.

reply to post by Hydroman


It's by definition just because He is GOD. You want your own will done but His will will be done.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Yep, you cut right to the heart of the issue, we are prideful and rebellious.

Pride and rebellion.

Really? Maybe so. So what? I don't understand why I can't have the freedom to claim that being burned forever in fire is unjust. Why do you think it is just? Because the big god said so? If he asked you to kill your neighbors because they worship a different god, would you think that it would be a good thing to do? Mind you, he did that.

Originally posted by 547000
It's by definition just because He is GOD. You want your own will done but His will will be done.

Again, this is the idea that might makes right. Which, it does not. See, I don't need a god to tell me what is right and what is wrong. I can do that by myself. IMO, it is wrong to torture anyone forever, no matter what they did.

What is strange is that you guys won't answer my question as to whether or not YOU think it is a just punishment. You keep deferring back to your god. I want to know what YOU think.


Also, you won't show how an all knowing god could create a place to torture the devil and his angels, but not for humans....yet later decide to put humans in there. You won't admit that he knew all along that mankind would burn there too. So, you keep saying that hell wasn't created for us, only for the angels and the devil....because the bible says so.

So then your goal is to replace Him and become your own God? So you must suffer the punishment Satan will as well unless you repent.

reply to post by Hydroman

Really? Maybe so. So what? I don't understand why I can't have the freedom to claim that being burned forever in fire is unjust.

You do have that freedom.

Why do you think it is just?

Because He is perfect justice.

Because the big god said so?

I have no issues letting Him be God.

If he asked you to kill your neighbors because they worship a different god, would you think that it would be a good thing to do? Mind you, he did that.

In that scenario I'd have a serious moral crisis to deal with. But at the end of the day, if God Almighty demanded I do that then I would, because again, He is sovereign I am not. He is God, I am not. But in the Bible, God never judges anyone who is innocent. When God judges someone or a group of people it's reactionary.

Originally posted by 547000
So then your goal is to replace Him and become your own God? So you must suffer the punishment Satan will as well unless you repent.

Become my own god? Where'd that come from? My goal is to show you that eternal torture in fire is insane. We don't even do that to our own kind, and we're supposedly much worse than this god of yours.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Because He is perfect justice.

And how do you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I have no issues letting Him be God.

Cool.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
In that scenario I'd have a serious moral crisis to deal with. But at the end of the day, if God Almighty demanded I do that then I would, because again, He is sovereign I am not. He is God, I am not. But in the Bible, God never judges anyone who is innocent. When God judges someone or a group of people it's reactionary.

You should have a moral crisis to deal with, that's good. You know what I would say in that scenario? If you want them dead, why don't you kill them asshole?

Next scenario, your god tells you to kill your child because in the future he's going to murder millions of people. And....go.

See, this is scary stuff. In the news, "Man kills neighbors because god told him to." Jeeeeezzzzusssss.

reply to post by Hydroman

What is strange is that you guys won't answer my question as to whether or not YOU think it is a just punishment.

We have answered, perhaps you're looking for a different answer? By definition it is "just" because it's the judgment of God. Is the idea of an eternal Hell repulsive to me as a human? Of course it is, and I think that's the point. Hell is supposed to be repulsive. I can separate my feelings of aversion and repulsiveness to Hell from it's reality or not. The repulsiveness of Hell doesn't factor into my rationality to it's existence or not. Hell is supposed to be repulsive.