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Why Aren't The Jewish Religious texts edited to remove Racist and hate passages?

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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by cripmeister
 


thank you for correcting me on that. so a wog is not an instant enemy nor unworthy of the truth, they just have to pay enough money into the system to get the truth, correct?.


Correct.




posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


a. The Hindus (including the one you got your information from) do not follow Veda.
b. The Veda can only be learnt after getting proper knowledge of Sanskrit, which takes years in itself.
c. There is nothing 'esoteric' and 'metaphysical' about religion. This is all babbling of people who have not understood God. Whatever God made, whether in physical (gross, 'sthool') form or subtle ('Soochm') form, can be learnt by the soul through Yoga.
d. Hindus claim a lot of things, that Arya do not claim. Arya only claim that Sanskrit is the original language on 'Earth'. Arya do not make assumptions about races on other planets.
e. I am ready to have an exclusive thread of Judaism vs Veda, point by point with proof from scripture.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Dr Expired
,, I think it would be reasonable perhaps to have a G rated bible for children under 18 for example, where children wouldn't read the thing in time of trouble an dinterpret that they are not Jewish or of the tribes of Israel so are therefore unclean and not worthy.


Have you ever been inside a christian bookstore? They do have watered down Bibles for children such as you describe. They have had them for over 40 years at least that I know of.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by vedatruth
 





There is nothing 'esoteric' and 'metaphysical' about religion. This is all babbling of people who have not understood God. Whatever God made, whether in physical (gross, 'sthool') form or subtle ('Soochm') form, can be learnt by the soul through Yoga.


ummm, the metaphysical and the mystical - experiential, go hand in hand.

The states described in the Torah the through the medium of allegory have a metaphysical interpretation, but this interpretation means nothing outside the sphere of experience.

This is the basic makeup of all religion. Metaphysics and mysticism go hand in hand. This is basic knowledge.

As for making a thread "proving" which religion is superior...that would be pointless and leader nowhere.

Having studied both, Hebrew far more than Sanskrit (i read hebrew), i probably have a bias. Likewise, you have your bias towards sanskrit.

Hebrew at an archetypal word root level is profoundly interesting. What REALLY blows peoples heads away, and what makes the Jews say Hebrew is the mind of God, is the numerological phenomena of the language.

No other language on earth evinces the consistency and coherncy of the Hebrew language at the numerical-mathematical level.

I know Sanskrit is supposd to have been built through trial and error. Where the perfect 'resonance' between mind/idea and sound was established, and connections built....This is very interesting. But how different is that from Arabic? Muslims also make the same claim that Arabic is the holy language. Some druids make that calim about runes...

Frankly, the only language that can make that claim and justify it at an objective level is Hebrew. Word roots with philosophic meanings are great, and perhaps the claims of some that "sanskrit is the most scientific langage" based on the connections between sound and idea ar true.......But this is all still very intangible. Whats tangible is seeing two words....Echad and Ahavah - one and love, and seeing they both equal 13. 13 is also a number which would evince the quality of unity. The 12 lines to a cube being the possible dimensions in a 3 dimensional world, united by 1. 13 being the perfect number of oneness.

The entre language is filled with examples like the above.

Perhaps local consciousness - or a "collective consciousness" of a particular race of people unites their awareness with their own intermediary cosmic form. In Kabbalah, there are 70 archetypal powers. These are the 70 nations of the world and the 70 languages (as in Genesis, where the 1 language is divided into 70). Basically, the idea is the same. The archetypal power is the divine intermediary, or expression of God, between between th infinite creator and mankind. The connection between the archetypal power and man is through language. Language conveys the particular archetypal nuances of ancestoral consciousness. The basic structure of the language is the concretization of the spiritual consciousness "archangel" in finite form.

The Rabbis say Hebrew is the original language. And given the numerological consistency of the language, i believe them.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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I respect you for your knowledge of Torah and Judaism.

The first vedic tradition is to respect a learned man.

My answers are as follows:

a. You must completely forget about superiority of a language, if you want to really learn the truth. You will have to learn the truth by seeing - the Yoga is meant for seeing, as with own eyes. The language does not matter in Yoga.

b. God does not care what language you speak. Language is made by man.

c. Vedic Sanskrit is different from all other languages including Hindi, and vernacular Sanskrit.

d. The sciences can be expressed in any language.

e. I completely disagree that mathematical nature of a language makes it superior. Knowledge is very diverse, and a large alphabet and a large vocablury is needed for expressing knowledge.

f. A complete illiterate can become a Yogi, and thus an expert of Veda. That cannot be said of a priest, who has only external knowledge.

g. A seeker has to become very very humble, if he EVER has a chance to know God. A seeker always starts from "I know nothing". Then only his power of reason is able to see.

h. I advise you to sit at the feet of a Yogi (a real one) and ask. Then you will know the difference.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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lots of wisdom here.

some questions.

When did the Hebrew and Vedic / Sanskrit languages become

written languages ?

how much verifiable proof exists ?

were ancient languages all "invented" and ascended from older languages ?

and,

was ancient "Phoenician" writing before Hebrew ?

what about Aramaic ?



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Sanskrit was a spoken language before it became a written language.

To date, the vedic tradition of transferring knowledge is oral.

I have no proof (execpt what somebody realises in Yoga), that written Sanskrit is millions of years old.

Valmiki Ramayan is more than 18 million years old written book.

Upanishads are much older, same with Manusmriti. These existed before Ramayan.


edit on 3-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by vedatruth
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Sanskrit was a spoken language before it became a written language.

To date, the vedic tradition of transferring knowledge is oral.

I have no proof (except what somebody realizes in Yoga), that written Sanskrit is millions of years old.

Valmiki Ramayan is more than 18 million years old written book.

Upanishads are much older, same with Manusmriti. These existed before Ramayan.


edit on 3-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)



forgive me for a skeptical view on a timeline.

BUT, anything either oral or written that is millions of years old would mean a pre-human culture had to exist ?

Some scholars believe that Akkadian was the pre-cursor to later languages.

I think there are some archaeological evidence.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


The time of Krishna was 5300 years old. This can be proven with lot of direct and indirect evidence.

The last Vedic book is considered to be 'Mahabharat'. (I mean a book from the time till Vedic civilization existed)

Humans have lived on Earth for a very very long time.

I have no knowledge of Akkadian language, but I know for sure that Chinese language is completely independent from Egyptian language though both are pictorial. This suggests independent origins.


edit on 3-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by vedatruth
 





a. You must completely forget about superiority of a language, if you want to really learn the truth. You will have to learn the truth by seeing - the Yoga is meant for seeing, as with own eyes. The language does not matter in Yoga.


I know, but were discussing the significance of language now.




b. God does not care what language you speak. Language is made by man.


Technically, all inspiration comes from God, so God, atleast indirectly, gives man their own languages....Sanskrit may be a "root" for south eastern peoples, but it has little to do with other peoples.

In the ancient world, the common language of commerce was Aramaic, a language very similar to Hebrew. Infact, the Kabbalists consider Aramaic to be the "backside" of Hebrew. Meaning Aramaic reflects a secular relationship with creation, from a lower, man centered perspective. When you compare Hebrew words to Aramaic words, this theory seems to uphold. Or perhaps its wishful thinking?

Anyways, Hebrew is called Lashon HaKodesh - the holy tongue. The numerical value of this word equals Safat Echat - One language ie; the language unifies reality. This numerical aspect to the language seems to justify the claims of the Rabbis, that it is a completely divine tongue. Whether it was recieved on Mount Sinai, as a divine revelation to the prophet Moshe (which in Hebrew is HaShem backwards. Jews call God "the name" HaShem. So its very interesting that Moses, the prophet of God, is literally a mirror image of his God - HaShem. Hebrew letters are also ascribed a basic archetypal meaning. The characters heh, Shin, mem, are the archetypal elements present in both the concept "the name" - ie; referring to God as the "expression", or outer form, of creation, and Moshe - his prophet. YHVH Elohim even tells Moshe "you will be Elohim, and Aaron will be your prophet".

Perhaps the revelation to the Jews - a completely unique phenomena on earth - and entirely different from the spiritual traditions of its neighbors, in Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Iran, India etc, truly is centered around the concept of "division" and separation. Morality, is the consequence of looking at this world with a limited and analytical insight. Morality is probably the ideal spiritual expression of finitude.

All other spiritual traditions emphasize the duality of the world. Of multiple different approaches, all legitimate, to the incomphrensible spiritual center of reality; the self or God. You find this spiritual philosophy in Egypt, in Babylon, in Iran, in India, in Greece. Its universal. Men are not in agreement with "what is good" and "what is bad". One mans goodness is another mans evil. To a Nietzsche, kindness is egotism and therefore virtueless. It makes much more sense to defend your interests and seek advantage. Necessity and the preservation of self takes priority over one mans responsibility to his brother. They embody the primordial Cain "am i my brothers keeper"?? Do i have to "keep" that person with me? Do i have to support him when hes down?

So Judaism - based on Hebraism - is very different, and one can only reason the hate that has been projected on Jews in their history to be an extension of a metaphysical feeling towards Jews from the nations elite - noble families.




d. The sciences can be expressed in any language


I agree, i am not trying to discount any specialness to Sanskrit. I am sure each language conveys a part or picture of reality.

One cant also ignore the fantastic sophistication of Hindu-Dharmic spiitual systems. Yoga is a very interesting subject and i intend to read more on it.




I completely disagree that mathematical nature of a language makes it superior. Knowledge is very diverse, and a large alphabet and a large vocablury is needed for expressing knowledge.


I think you may be right.

Theres an objective and subjective perspective to everything. We more or less lack a completely "objective" perception of how reality is. We all see through a "glass darkly" - an ego and body which limits our clear perception. Therefore, reality can be treated as dual. Light, darkness, etc. Perhaps Sanskrit - a special language, projects a particular perception of cosmos, which conveys a truth that resonates towards souls attached to that "aspect" of the divine truth.

Same thing can be said about Arabic (a tongue considered very holy by Muslims), or Koine Greek (which has its own interesting numerological formulas, though nowhere near as consistent as Hebrew).

Mathematics is how man can most objectively measure and order nature. Thus, since God put man in this world of time and space, it stands to reason that God, if he were to ever relate to man in a purposeful way, it would be to express the significance of our journey in



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 01:22 AM
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...in this world of time and space.

Hebrew would represent that language, expressed through the Hebrew Torah, which expresses the will of the creator of the universe.

Its interesting to note that the Gnostics - opponents of the Jewish Rabbis, regarded the Jewish God as a "demiurge". They acknowledged that he existed, and that he was real. The Gnostics even used the Hebrew magical formula "abracadabra" - "i create that which i speak", in their ceremonies, indicating they knew and understood the spiritual significance of the Hebrew language.

So perhaps the Gnostic "demiurge", is related to a concept like this, found in Hinduism:

“The Skanda Purana, (1.1.6; 3.2.9-15; 3.1.14) gives a number of reasons why Brahma is not today an object of worship. One of them is that he was condemned by Siva never to be worshipped by mortals because he lied, pretending he had reached the summit of the linga of light (ibid 1.1.6)” pg 235 - The myths and Gods of India, by Alain Danielou


Because he lied??? This sounds awfully similar, in an archetypal sense, with what the Gnostics said about the Jewish God. That he was a "deluded archon" who thought he was the highest God. Clearly, the summit of the linga of light probably alludes to the realm beyond the void; the world of Adam Kadmon in Kabbalah. Or Anthropos in Gnosticism. I guess the "atman" of hinduism would be its cognate.

To call the creator God a "demiurge" is to regard him as only an aspect of the whole. His job is to bring about liitation and finitude. Not to impose moral laws or command anything of human Being. Because in the heirarchy of being, the universal self precedes the manifestion, or "creation" of the universe. It exists as an emanation of the infinite, and so partakes of it.

The talmud disagrees with this pagan contention and say they are dividing God. The Jews believe that when the Torah was revealed - when the Hebrew language, the medium of the revelation, was brought into reality, the divine flux of creation shifted towards the creator. That now the creator had come out and said "the infinite one, i am He, the creator, i am also He". That God was ONE. He tells Moses when he asks Him what his name is, and he says "EHYEH ASHER EHYEH" "I shall be that which i shall be"... A quite elusive statement. It seems to suggest that God is always becoming, always changing, and yet, as of now, he has this demand from mankind; that we follow the basic moral precepts that "builfd" the world.

Unless all men agree with this, we will always have conflict. The Saivism, in Hinduism, and other left hand paths, completely contradict that spirit. Its this spirit, which produces a sordid and arrogant insistance that evil, materialism, lust, sex, wine, etc, can be used to achieve 'enlightenment' is simultaneously completely irreverant and obnoxious in the face of the giver of life. Such people have forgot their place. They may have the power, but they have it not to use it so irresponsibly, but rather, to honor God by using it with care and awareness.


A complete illiterate can become a Yogi, and thus an expert of Veda. That cannot be said of a priest, who has only external knowledge.


I think the same can be said about those simple, yet devout Christians and Jews and Muslims, who may not have much knowledge of God, in terms of metaphysics and theology, but thy have a very deep, and simplistic faith. Their faith is incredibly power. As the bible says, not by bread (or limited means) alone does a man live, but by Manna - the word of God. Mannah (man in hebrew) is derived from the word eMuNah - belief. If we simply believed, we would know.




A seeker has to become very very humble, if he EVER has a chance to know God. A seeker always starts from "I know nothing". Then only his power of reason is able to see


I agree with that too. Humility is the most important trait in all our affairs; with both God and man.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


"EHYEH ASHER EHYEH" ?

Is that I AM THAT I AM?

cause in the original hebrew there, it says I AM I AM. there's no "THAT"
"THAT" was added by translators.
so are you saying there's another hebrew text that doesn't translate from the same original hebrew in this example ?

it would say something like HAYAH HAYAH

yehovah is from the root word, "hayah."

so technically, that's saying yehovah yehovah . or yahweh yahweh

why twice?

i have a theory that it's akkadian EA EA, from the sumerian ENKI. later known as ENKI-EA

it also denotes continuous existence, omnipresence. what i'm particularly noticing is
the hint of IS IS (exist exist), to be to be. meaning the same thing. is this a coincedence?
should the text say, asher asher? or asherah asherah?
and if so, asherah = astoreth = inana = isis.
it's interesting to note that the tiberian etymology of asher is aser, which oddly enough is osiris (isis' mate)

oh oh, this is getting interesting.

asir = osiris
the name for pharaoh as god, upon his passing. osiris' name always preceeded the surname of the pharaoh. so it would say " osiris seti " for example.

in the I AM I AM passage is it suggesting it's not osiris pharaoh, but osiris osiris. this would mean alot to israelites having been accustomed to understand the history of their people in the language and icons of the egyptians. big hint about the spirit being. spirit spirit. ka ka. the ka was the soul as it was breathed into the body. i'm starting to see a familar theme here.

now i know why jesus stipulated that god was not a god of the dead but of the living. he wasn't saying that to suggest osiris (god) was not legit. he was saying that to correct their view of death. that the spirit's absence from the body following the death of the flesh, was not the end, but the beginning of eternity.

life life. it is interesting the word akh is from a similar origin and means the same thing in egyptian as ka.

akh akh. wonder if this is the origin of ankh.
edit on 3-10-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Puranns are outside Veda and Vedic literature.

We have Hinduism, a highly corrupted and distorted form of Vedic thought, that if you learn Hinduism without learning Veda first, you will be completely misled.

Veda does not contain any story at all. There is no reference to Indian ancestors or any other race. There are no human gods in Veda.

The stories are found in a category of books called 'itihaas' which includes books like 'Ramayan', 'Mahabharat', 'Smriti' and 'Purann'.

'Manusmriti' is a special book because it is a book of law. The law is in Veda also, but this book contains law in a vernacular language. However this book has been corrupted in the last 2500 years by Pundits. Only people like Dayanand tried to remove the wrong verses and tell people the truth, for which he was murdered.

So it all boils down to this - Judaism may be a better religion than some others - maybe. Is it the word of God? No.

I have no idea if stories written in Torah are correct or not. All I can say is - it cannot be the reason for legalizing tribal thinking. If a human cheats another human, it is a sin in the eyes of God. This law is Universal, no matter which planet you live on.


edit on 3-10-2011 by vedatruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by Wolfenz
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


And Certain a Race's ! They Have Genetic Defects ! just as some Black have the Sickle Cell Disorter
it Only Portrays To the Jews well Mostly ...

Health - Jewish Diseases
Learn about Canavan, Tay-Sachs, and other diseases which affect the Jewish population.
judaism.about.com...




Most Common Jewish Genetic Disorders

Mendelian Disorders are the direct result of mutated genes
Bloom Syndrome
Canavan Disease
Crohn's Disease
Factor XI Deficiency
Familial Dysautonomia (Riley-Day syndrome)
Fanconi Anemia
Gaucher Disease
Mucolipidosis IV
Niemann-Pick Disease
Non-Classical Adrenal Hyperplasia
Nonsyndromic Hearing Loss
Tay-Sachs Disease
Torsion Dystonia


Do we need to Continue ?

Jewish Genetic Disorders
judaism.about.com...
edit on 2-10-2011 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)


It might not be Racial but it sure is about Ethnics


Possible?

DNA and the Origins of the Jewish Ethnic Groups
www.rasch.org...
edit on 2-10-2011 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)


I'm going to give an overlooked perspective here:

Some defects are worse than others if certain people have the warrior gene or the killer gene in which they are likely to harm society and the world whose traits are brought down from a more barbaric past, better to have these than have both.

They are spiritually blessed but also cursed for this by society in which it cannot calculate their relationship with God, it confuses people into jealousy, as for Arabic cultures no one is confused we don’t look at Islamic women and get jealous we pity their oppression for example.

One gene they do have that stands out is the intelligent gene which makes such a small group as the Jews become great scientists, artists and bankers while their IQs are said to be around 180 found commonly in this group, so whatever diseases they have I am sure they will find a self cure for it one day which is more than likely for other groups of people who won't. Their inventive skills have helped provide the modern world and defend it with their own technology, they have danger in the world today man wants them and their memory removed like some catwalk model that a barbaric society has been exposed to and they kill her because their beauty puts shame on their insecurity as a people or race.

They make mistakes along the way but God has his spiritual punishments for them, when they stay away from faith their defences are open to danger when they gain it their society overcomes the greatest challenges and so shall it be when all nations gather against them who are being programmed to go against them when God himself have left covenants and promises before he returns for them to gain their salvation in which they hold man's history in place.

This scenario is going to happen in our lifetimes if Palestine becomes independent, it means the UN and all its nations will be reeled into their disputes, one side for Israel one side for Palestine, it is a danger waiting to happen and prophetically in Biblical predictions this could be one of many cases. It means God will no longer bless those who Bless Israel and they will fall into the curse of the Palestine’s stubborn self made poverty, economic failure and anti Semitism views will increase. Bible prophecy predicts certain nations will have people making war against them before God's return and this anti Zion sentiment is a rebellion for when Christ returns at Zion so it makes sense that people and nations are spiritually without knowing gearing up and choosing sides. This global climate is a recipe for some one man show leader who will lead man to accept the mark of the beast and millions will fall for it, it could have happened many times but it gets diverted by other good forces.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by The time lord
 





One gene they do have that stands out is the intelligent gene which makes such a small group as the Jews become great scientists, artists and bankers while their IQs are said to be around 180 found commonly in this group........

Some defects are worse than others if certain people have the warrior gene or the killer gene in which they are likely to harm society and the world whose traits are brought down from a more barbaric past, better to have these than have both.



Are these "special" genes identifiable by medical science ?

either one: "intelligent" or "warrior/killer" ?

which Haplogroups ?

Certainly there MUST be other "people" too ?


Bueller..
BuelLER..

BUEller....



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by The time lord
 


All you are saying is Jews are children of a priestly class, which had a tradition of learning/writing, so the IQ improved over generations.

The same is true of the Pundits in India. But Pundits are responsible for so many problems in the society.

I have tried to reason with so many Pundits, and all I found is people not willing to give up their evil ways, just because they are profiting from it.

So intelligence is no indicator of a lover of God.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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God speaks all languages, even English, especially English, since it's the most universal language on earth.


There's english gematria too: SECOND = 19+5+3+15+14+4 = 60, for a second is the 60th part of a minute..etc..

DAY = 4+1+25 = 30, and DY = 4+25 = 29, with and without vowel day is 30,29 as the day divides the month, based on the moon, lunar cycle being 29.5 solar days, the average of the two (29 + 30)/2 = 29.5 etc...

a more sophisticated example involving "HAND" is illustrated here,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and if you'd like to see the real proof of God's hand in the English language you should read the book,

www.amazon.com...=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

which has a few really neat examples, e.g. showing how DUST encodes the entire DNA code etc...

all done in ENGLISH !

So, God is not picky about language. He uses all languages. You only have to look and see for yourself.




edit on 3-10-2011 by DRAZIW because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by The time lord
 





One gene they do have that stands out is the intelligent gene which makes such a small group as the Jews become great scientists, artists and bankers while their IQs are said to be around 180 found commonly in this group........

Some defects are worse than others if certain people have the warrior gene or the killer gene in which they are likely to harm society and the world whose traits are brought down from a more barbaric past, better to have these than have both.



Are these "special" genes identifiable by medical science ?

either one: "intelligent" or "warrior/killer" ?

which Haplogroups ?

Certainly there MUST be other "people" too ?


Bueller..
BuelLER..

BUEller....


Bueller . . . well if you had read any pages of this thread before you may have come across my post addressing this.

Natural history of Ashkenazi intelligence.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...



Abstract

This paper elaborates the hypothesis that the unique demography and sociology of Ashkenazim in medieval Europe selected for intelligence. Ashkenazi literacy, economic specialization, and closure to inward gene flow led to a social environment in which there was high fitness payoff to intelligence, specifically verbal and mathematical intelligence but not spatial ability. As with any regime of strong directional selection on a quantitative trait, genetic variants that were otherwise fitness reducing rose in frequency. In particular we propose that the well-known clusters of Ashkenazi genetic diseases, the sphingolipid cluster and the DNA repair cluster in particular, increase intelligence in heterozygotes. Other Ashkenazi disorders are known to increase intelligence. Although these disorders have been attributed to a bottleneck in Ashkenazi history and consequent genetic drift, there is no evidence of any bottleneck. Gene frequencies at a large number of autosomal loci show that if there was a bottleneck then subsequent gene flow from Europeans must have been very large, obliterating the effects of any bottleneck. The clustering of the disorders in only a few pathways and the presence at elevated frequency of more than one deleterious allele at many of them could not have been produced by drift. Instead these are signatures of strong and recent natural selection.


Enjoy!

PS

If you can't get to the full study here is a link to a fairly basic review of it:

On The Evolution Of Ashkenazi Jewish Intelligence
www.futurepundit.com...
edit on 3-10-2011 by MasterGemini because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by undo


Hi Undo

Actually, the mangled texts of Exodus chapter 3 state : YEHEI 'ESHER' YEHEI -

Where ESHER in Heb. can mean 'that which' or could also mean ASHUR the god of the Assyrians ( in other words "I am ASHUR I am [ASHUR[")

I take it you cannot read unpointed paleoHebrew - since the word ESHER is a common Hebrew term used in relative clausal structures e.g. (the man WHO IS here (esher), or the name WHICH IS holy (esher) etc.

Interestingly, if ASHUR the clan-god of Assyria is meant here, it is curious that ASHERAH is the name of ASHUR's Wife (a female goddess- ASHUR) which was actually part of the Israeliite pantheon as the Wife of YHWH prior to 450 BCE with Ezra's monotheistic reforms ('you will worship YHWH alone') after the Babylonian Exile (c. 587 - 537 BCE) - we still find inscriptions c. 700 BCE e.g. in Elephantine ('this crossroad is sacred to YHWH and his Asherah...")

Also, the clan god ASHUR had 4 faces (one face of a man, one face of a lion, one face of an eagle and one face of a bull/ox) so if you read the scroll of the book of the prophet Hezekiel chapters 1 and 10 - bobs you're uncle, there is YHWH with (you guessed it !) FOUR faces, that of a man, an eagle, an ox and a lion....

Co-incidence?

I think not.

But in the meantime PLEASE take a beginner's paleoHebrew class so you can learn how the Israelite cults handled relative clauses in their 'sacred' literature !!!!



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Dr Expired
 
Sorry for my delayed response here, friend.

I've been doing some looking around trying to dig out what you might be referring to here, and not having a great deal of luck (outside the talmud, anyway...you know my feelings there, I've never liked the thing and can't agree with giving it the weight a good many in judaism do, although it has some use otherwise).

While the bible does talk about Israel as being the chosen people and apple of his eye, as I mentioned before god was always more than ready to hold them accountable for their own failings and frequent betrayals, as well as recognize the righteousness or righteous acts of various gentiles as applicable (Uriah the hittite, Melchizedek, Rahab of Jericho, Cyrus of Persia [who was actually one of god's annointed ones, despite not being an israelite], and many others so on).

I can agree that blanket condemnation merely on the basis of not being a child of israel would be very unpleasanat, but aside from the conquest of the land (where various groups were condemned based on their corruptive influence on fledgling israel), there actually seemed to be pretty good relations with a good many of the nations, even in the stated opinion of god in some verses.

I don't want to keep pushing you on the matter, but if you could reference some bits directly, I would at least have better grounding to understand where the trouble is coming from...as it stands, I can only see some of the more extreme ugliness in the talmud - and possibly other non-biblical sources - having had a very great and sad impact on you. I tend to come across many sections of grace as well as acceptance of gentiles who act accordinly in my readings.

Take care, friend.

EDIT -
Here's one article discussing some of what I'm talking about as far as righteous gentiles and god being the god of all, not just the jews...if you're interested in checking it out. Regardless, I look forward to hearing back from you on this.
edit on 10/3/2011 by Praetorius because: (no reason given)



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