Why Aren't The Jewish Religious texts edited to remove Racist and hate passages?

First, i dont think you have presented this topic maturely or with a adequate amount of knowledge.

I study Judaism, have read the Torah 10s of times, read Talmud, Midrashim, and manifold rabbinic writings, both traditional and contemporary.......


I dont think i would call for the editting of the Talmud, because what it says about non-Jews did have a modicum of merit, particularly in pre-christian/muslim times when people were apt to engage in idolatry, orgiastic rites, and other pagan affinities, many of which were immoral. So, the Talmud reasoned in particular places that these people, because they do not exercise their power of reason, act like animals. They follow and give into their base unjust instincts the way animals do.

Though in other places, the Talmud calls non-Jews "Bnei Adam", or HaAdam", clearly identifying non-Jews as human beings. But they are not "adam" without the article "Heh" which means 'the', and serves to identify something else. Thus it refers to objective tense, that gentiles are human beings. Adam, by itself, without any further clause before it, symbolizes the primordial man. It refers to a completely unified consciousness. Because non-Jews were so at war with themselves and each other, they didnt constitute a "spiritual body" with a common understanding, ethos and connection.

The morality of Judaism is designed to effect this connection.

Although, i do feel some Rabbis take the distinction between Jew and Gentile to a obscene degree, where they strain to articulate an inherent metaphysical superiority of Jews to non-Jews, where Jews are regarded as innately more able to be compassionate, or selfless, while a non-Jew is purely unable to do that. I find this view absurd and idiotic and it is a shame a Jew could believe such nonsense. It isnt true in the least.

However, i HATE the people who think all Jews interpret their tradition like this. I know far more orthodox Jews who are loving and humble and who strive with all their might to grant dignity, self respect and worth to the spiritual role of the non-Jew. If you read "Israel and Humanity" by Rabbi Elijah Benamozegh, a 19th century italian rabbi, you can see how the non-Jew is truly understood in the wider spiritual context.

Benamozegh explains that the non-Jews purpose is as a "builder", akin to Hiram, king of Tyre, who provided the material to build Solomons Temple. There is no qualitative different between Jew and non-Jew. I have studied every religion, to a degree, and every religion teaches a similar morality, and has a similar appreciation for the importance of humility. True, you'll find things in Hinduism which completely contradicts the spirit of Hebraic ethics, but there is a minority among Hindus who adhere to a strict morality and who themselves worship the God of the Jews (in the form of Indra, or Brahma).

Non-Jewish religion is just another expression of G-ds unfathomable complexity. But Judaism, itself derived from Hebraism, is the Law which the creator has established on the earth.

The law is nothing more then 7 laws, all of which are perfectly reasonable and designed to affect a connection between the supernal realms - sefiroth - and this realm of space and time. Do not kill, do not steal, do not act sexually immoral (respect the sanctity of sexuality), do not worship idols (do not worship mental forms; meaning philosophies, ideas, beliefs which contradict the truth of Gods complete sovereignty ie; that He pervades all, and is the cause of all. Idolatry is then to be interpreted as superficiality, egotism, materialism, etc) do not blaspheme the creators name (this idea is deeper then it sounds. The "name" of God, is practically everything. Name refers to speech, and therefore cautions us to respect the power of speech. Do not for instance gossip about other people - a misuse of speech, or swear out of anger - another bad habit etc) Do not hurt animals or nature - which means to respect the spiritual consciousness of all reality, and how everthing is essentially vested with the spirit of life. Respect life.

And the 7th law is to establish a legal system that regulates the above laws, in all their derivations.

Reply to post by roadtoad

Then please explain the original Hebrews version of Genesis 1:1, for starters.

Then you can head over to Genesis 1:26

After that, head over to Isaiah 48:16

Perhaps Psalm 2:7.

I can continue if you like.

Originally posted by WinnieDaWho
I was expecting that the OP would list down all the so called racial phrases for us to analyse..

And Iam not being cute here...the whole yhing has references to the Gentiles,and warnings about not associating with them....its fact, google , bing , yahoo, any search engine will show one , this is getting absurd , we all know its racist books.... in parts.....eternally wise and loving in other parts...that is the point , some are saying you cannot edit Gods word...but perhaps God is waiting patiently for us to recognise mans thoughts and words , as opposed to his own.
Just maybe some of the verses and text is bogus?
Yeah sad but perhaps true.
Its like if you are married and you read a note supposedly written by your wife, that says she wants to kill you and eat your brains through a straw.
If you know your wife ...you will know this is a forged or forced note.

Similarly if you know God a fraction of a fraction , you may know that likewise parts of Holy books are just rabidly hateful reflections of deranged minds? .

reply to post by dontreally


Well said.

And it can be all summed up in one easy phrase.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, strength, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. That is Torah.

reply to post by Dr Expired


Well, all I know is that for having a Jewish background, you do not know much about your religion or your holy book.

Stop using Google, Yahoo, and Bing and go to shul.

reply to post by dontreally

You have deeply studied Judaism. And I appreciate your views.

I called for reform, not abolition of Judaism.

A reform means removal of false practices (including false way of teaching).

As a river flows from the mountains to the seas, it collects garbage on the way. The water that came out of the mountains was pure, but it became impure along the way. It has happened to every religion.

So the water needs to be filtered before it is fit for drinking, for the people who live far from mountains. Or the source of garbage has to be removed.

God has promised to make Israel the light of the world. However they rejected the real messiah. In the future the false messiah will be accepted when Israel is a superpower and he will torture and kill those who don't accept him. Reading Catholic prophecies of the anti-christ has sobered me.

reply to post by vedatruth


I dig that.

It is prophesied to happen as well.

reply to post by vedatruth


If the dirty water is the quasi xenophobia, or distrust or confusion about the spiritual nature of non-Jews, i agree, it is quite murky, and it has to be cleared if Judaism and Jews are ever to live in peace with the world.

Likewise, Islam has to make a complete overhaul, particularly with their statements about Jews being "apes and pigs" "killers of prophets" etc.

Back to Judaism, i think more Jews are coming closer to the "noahide" concept of early Judaism, and coming to a clearer understanding of their own purpose relative to the gentiles

Truth be told, i dont agree with everything i read. Im not one of those dogmatists who reads a statement like "Non-Jews dont have a divine soul", and say "YES. Must be true! A Sage of Torah said it". While the teacher may have been a sage in Torah, he also sufferred living under the brunt and humiliation of Christian, Cossak, or Soviet domination. Thus he is likely to have resentments towards these people. This crass idea that non-Jews lack a "divine neshama" from the world of Atziluth, is garbage, untrue, these people falsify Torah and make a mockery of Gods creation. That is my personal opinion.

I fully agree with the morality of Judaism and Torah, but i dissent against these petty metaphysical arguments some broach about the 'superiority" of the Jewish soul.

I think every person is completely equal. Jew or Gentile - makes no difference. We each have our role in this world of limitation. Some may have their 'spiritual connection to God" through Buddhism. Others through Hinduism. Still others through Christianity, Islam, Native American religion etc. Judaisms centrality (not only metaphysically, but geographically aswell, where Jerusalem is the nexus between 3 continents) lies only in its divine relevation of mans moral responsibility to live in accord with the law of Heaven.

Jews are not higher. They are different.They have a different role; where relative to mankind they officiate as priests to God, performing thier 613 mitzvoth and whatever else.

Likewise, Muslims have their own unique laws delegated by its imams. Infact, no religion is more in line with the essence of the 7 laws of Noah then Islam is. Islam itself claims to be the "eternal law".

Christianity likewise is already practically the religion of the gentiles, and so very much lives in accord with the 7 laws.

Manu, the lawgiver of Hinduism, i believe had a more prominent place and purpose in early Hinduism then it does today. Hinduism needs to return to that more wholesome beginnings. Some Tantra, black magic, etc, is simply not acceptable and its a shame people have become so lowered as to accept this as reasonable (just my opinion).

Even aside from these 7 laws. Whats more important then getting people to accept these laws is to live in peace with each other, and hope that over time these laws become seen as practical and worthwhile.

king david danced naked into jerusalem, had the husband of a woman he lusted after, killed so he could have her instead and joined forces with "mighty men" (a phrase denoting nephilim) to defeat his enemies.

solomon had so many wives and concubines he had the potential for an orgy every night, any time of day. he strayed into various forms of paganism, including mollech worship (sacrificing babies in a fiery furnace)

king saul had people killed for going to fortune tellers, then went to one himself, who recognized him and said, (paraphrased) "what are you trying to do, entrap me, so you can have me killed for disobeying your law against fortune telling?"

in their own texts they reveal that their patriarchs were not saintly people, and that they engaged in all manner of pagan or gentile- like behaviors. this is what jesus was trying to point out. realize that even the best of you are no better than the best of the gentiles

but they have this tradition of the "Scape goat", so for oh, 6000 years, gentiles have been their scape goats, even some of their own people (like jesus for example) have been the scape goats of their ruling elites. when the TSHTF in germany, for example, they let their own people take the fall for it, well their people and non catholics.

in russia, they let any non jews take the fall, but also, scape goated non ashkenazis, like sephardic jews, muslims and particularly christians of any variety.

and now they're at it again. they are trying to blame christians and muslims and practicing sephardis, for all the problems in the world. they raise their own minions to leadership positions, have them claim they believe in this or that religion or insinuate the same (remember bush jr?) and then have them go out and commit horrible atrocities, THEN get on the news and blame christians and muslims.

so what i think the text is trying to say is, gentiles are their "ritual sacrifice victims" in this life. i have no idea why. but i'm supposed to believe it's my karma, although they don't like hindus either, calling them gentile pagans.

now this is not true for all jews, just the guys who always seem to be in power. they took the idea of the scape goat waaaaaaaaaaaay too far.

Seeing is Believing !

From the Jewish Virtual Library ( From their Own Words )

Gentile
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The Talmud
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

reply to post by Wolfenz


Did you actually read your links?

Thus all such statements must be seen in their specific geographical-historical context. Nevertheless, in general it may be said that the Jew's attitude toward the gentile was largely conditioned by the gentile's attitude toward him (see Esth. R. 2:3), so that a gentile's friendship to a Jew would be warmly and uninhibitedly reciprocated (see BK 38a, and witness the relationships between Meir and Avnimos ha-Gardi, Judah ha-Nasi and Antoninus, Samuel and Sapor, etc.).

Jewish antipathy to the gentile in talmudic times stemmed from a number of causes and functioned on several levels. Thus, gentiles were condemned for their cruelty to Jews (see BK 117a; Av. Zar. 25b, etc.), their morals were considered reprehensible (Yev. 98a; Av. Zar. 22b; Song R. 6:8, etc.), and throughout the period one finds reiterated the (theological) accusation that though they were offered the Torah, they rejected it (Av. Zar. 2b; Tanḥ. B., Deut. 54, etc.). Thus, the Jewish antipathy to the gentile was not due to the fact that he was of non-Jewish stock, i.e., it was not a racial prejudice, but rather motivated by their idolatry, moral laxity, and other such faults (see Av. Zar. 17a–b). Those that were righteous (by Jewish standards), however, were fully entitled to the rewards of the world-to-come (Tosef., Sanh. 13:2; BB 10b), and a further distinction was made by Johanan who declared that gentiles outside Palestine were not really idolaters, but only blind followers of their ancestral customs (Ḥul. 13b).

In rabbinic literature the distinction between gentile (goi, akkum) and Christian (noẓeri) has frequently been obscured by textual alterations necessitated by the vigilance of censors. Thus "Egyptian," "Amalekite," "Zadokite" (= Sadducee) and kuti (Samaritan) often stand in place of the original noẓeri, as well as goi, akkum, etc. (see Paḥad Yiẓḥak, S.V. Goi). Probably when Resh Lakish stated that a gentile (akkum etc., in existing texts) who observed the Sabbath is punishable by death (Sanh. 58b), he had in mind Christians (see A. Weiss, in Bar Ilan, 1 (1963), 143–8, xxxi–ii). The same may be so in the case of R. Ammi who ruled that one may not teach a gentile Torah (Ḥag. 13a; cf. Sanh. 59a). Numerous anti-Christian polemic passages only make real sense after noẓeri has been restored in place of the spurious kuti or ẓedoki, etc.

Where there is legal discrimination against a gentile, it is usually based on objective reasoning, such as the fact that he does not subscribe to the Jewish "social contract" (non-reciprocity). Thus, the Talmud rules that the commandment to restore lost property to its owner (Deut. 22:1–3) does not apply when the gentile is the owner (BK 113b). This is because gentiles do not act reciprocally in such cases. Similarly, a gentile cannot act as witness (BK 15a) because (according to one opinion) he is dishonest and unreliable (cf. Bek. 13b). Here it should be noted that Jews suspected of the same faults were liable to identical discrimination. Other apparently discriminating rulings were intended to discourage intimacy with the non-Jew, or, in other words, primarily to guard the Jews from the dangers of assimilation, such as the interdict against non-Jewish wines and cooked foods, etc. In practice discrimination against gentiles was frowned upon and even forbidden as it might jeopardize friendly relations (mi-penei darkhei shalom, Git. 5:8–9; mi-penei eivah, Av. Zar. 26a) and bring about a profanation of the Divine Name (ḥillul ha-Shem, BK 113b) – so much so, that the Talmud enjoins that gentile poor be supported with charity like Jewish poor (Git. 61a) and does not even tolerate the charging of interest to gentiles (BM 70b).

Game, set, match.

reply to post by digginapony


I want a site, with the texts, so I can cross-reference these things for my own knowledge.

Can you provide a site, or the books wherein these can be found? I need to read this for myself.

reply to post by undo


Last 3000 years on earth has been a horrible time, a time of constant wars and strife. There has been nothing but pain. People who think that they can achieve 'nirvaan' through power and money are living in illusion. Veda prescribed the most humble life for the most powerful people in the Vedic society - that of an ascetic for a Brahmin. And there is a good reason for it. God is found only when attachment to the material world is given up.

I advise you to read my thread on Vedic civilization. I am writing it little by little every day. This is based on personal research, and is a result of a lot of effort.

Originally posted by vedatruth
reply to post by undo

 

Last 3000 years on earth has been a horrible time, a time of constant wars and strife. There has been nothing but pain. People who think that they can achieve 'nirvaan' through power and money are living in illusion. Veda prescribed the most humble life for the most powerful people in the Vedic society - that of an ascetic for a Brahmin. And there is a good reason for it. God is found only when attachment to the material world is given up.

I advise you to read my thread on Vedic civilization. I am writing it little by little every day. This is based on personal research, and is a result of a lot of effort.

i have.read it. my world history professor was a hindu, and went over all the hindu religions, indepth. i like their concepts, some seem very reminiscent of the teachings of jesus, but deplore their treatment of women. other than that, i certanily don't think hindus are any less important than jews or christians or anyone else for that matter.

i'm tired of hearing about how religion is the problem. the only problem here is a bunch of atheists hiding behind the name "jew" and manipulating the whole dang planet into genocidal maniacs.

reply to post by Dr Expired


Im not here to argue religion.. because we could do this for days.. BUT! I, congratulate them for this. Now.. im not a 'believer' of any organized cult.. erhm.. i mean religion.. but.. If it happened.. and if a god gave his commands to someone.. and if that someone was to pass it on.. so on and so forth.. where the $%#% do you get the right to change that 'holy' script? Throughout the past 2,000 years the Vatican have added, removed and changed the bible AS THEY SEE FIT... they even admit to it.. and any 'real' christian/catholic can tell you this. So for the Jews to keep there word the same, including racist notions and what not.. im actually happy. I dont agree or disagree with there message, but im glad its a 1:1 message, not 1:1241092501.... I prefer originals... just saying.

You're kidding, right? If its the Word of God, you can't EDIT it! Why not just start your own religion? Like the Mormons? (ducking head out here in Mormon Country) Why not remove all kinds of stuff then! Like stoning children that disobey parents? If it's in there, its in there. Frankly, I think the bible has been edited plenty. All the translations, some of which seem to have been mistranslated, the Council of Nicea, deciding which parts of the written words of various Jewish and early Christian writings that came to be the Bible at the time, long before the King James translations but after Greek, Aramaic, Latin, and other translations.... anyway, seems like a mess of worms kinda question to me.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Did you actually read your links?

Thus all such statements must be seen in their specific geographical-historical context. Nevertheless, in general it may be said that the Jew's attitude toward the gentile was largely conditioned by the gentile's attitude toward him (see Esth. R. 2:3), so that a gentile's friendship to a Jew would be warmly and uninhibitedly reciprocated (see BK 38a, and witness the relationships between Meir and Avnimos ha-Gardi, Judah ha-Nasi and Antoninus, Samuel and Sapor, etc.).

Jewish antipathy to the gentile in talmudic times stemmed from a number of causes and functioned on several levels. Thus, gentiles were condemned for their cruelty to Jews (see BK 117a; Av. Zar. 25b, etc.), their morals were considered reprehensible (Yev. 98a; Av. Zar. 22b; Song R. 6:8, etc.), and throughout the period one finds reiterated the (theological) accusation that though they were offered the Torah, they rejected it (Av. Zar. 2b; Tanḥ. B., Deut. 54, etc.). Thus, the Jewish antipathy to the gentile was not due to the fact that he was of non-Jewish stock, i.e., it was not a racial prejudice, but rather motivated by their idolatry, moral laxity, and other such faults (see Av. Zar. 17a–b). Those that were righteous (by Jewish standards), however, were fully entitled to the rewards of the world-to-come (Tosef., Sanh. 13:2; BB 10b), and a further distinction was made by Johanan who declared that gentiles outside Palestine were not really idolaters, but only blind followers of their ancestral customs (Ḥul. 13b).

In rabbinic literature the distinction between gentile (goi, akkum) and Christian (noẓeri) has frequently been obscured by textual alterations necessitated by the vigilance of censors. Thus "Egyptian," "Amalekite," "Zadokite" (= Sadducee) and kuti (Samaritan) often stand in place of the original noẓeri, as well as goi, akkum, etc. (see Paḥad Yiẓḥak, S.V. Goi). Probably when Resh Lakish stated that a gentile (akkum etc., in existing texts) who observed the Sabbath is punishable by death (Sanh. 58b), he had in mind Christians (see A. Weiss, in Bar Ilan, 1 (1963), 143–8, xxxi–ii). The same may be so in the case of R. Ammi who ruled that one may not teach a gentile Torah (Ḥag. 13a; cf. Sanh. 59a). Numerous anti-Christian polemic passages only make real sense after noẓeri has been restored in place of the spurious kuti or ẓedoki, etc.

Where there is legal discrimination against a gentile, it is usually based on objective reasoning, such as the fact that he does not subscribe to the Jewish "social contract" (non-reciprocity). Thus, the Talmud rules that the commandment to restore lost property to its owner (Deut. 22:1–3) does not apply when the gentile is the owner (BK 113b). This is because gentiles do not act reciprocally in such cases. Similarly, a gentile cannot act as witness (BK 15a) because (according to one opinion) he is dishonest and unreliable (cf. Bek. 13b). Here it should be noted that Jews suspected of the same faults were liable to identical discrimination. Other apparently discriminating rulings were intended to discourage intimacy with the non-Jew, or, in other words, primarily to guard the Jews from the dangers of assimilation, such as the interdict against non-Jewish wines and cooked foods, etc. In practice discrimination against gentiles was frowned upon and even forbidden as it might jeopardize friendly relations (mi-penei darkhei shalom, Git. 5:8–9; mi-penei eivah, Av. Zar. 26a) and bring about a profanation of the Divine Name (ḥillul ha-Shem, BK 113b) – so much so, that the Talmud enjoins that gentile poor be supported with charity like Jewish poor (Git. 61a) and does not even tolerate the charging of interest to gentiles (BM 70b).

My MY Its this Site that trying to Explain ! what you showed does not show in the Orignal TEXT!!!! of the Talmud

It Opinion Assumptions ! Their Soothing Reasoning !

OK OK its NOT RACIAL its Anyone that is NON JEW IT More Cultural ! Right !

But when I Read The Talmud and when they talk about NON Jew ( GENTILE ) and the Treatment

It hard not to think that the NAZI's Used the Talmud Against the Jews in a Reversal Role!! back in the 30s 40s !

. Thus, the Jewish antipathy to the gentile was not due to the fact that he was of non-Jewish stock,

Jewish Stock !! >? Sounds Like there are a Race not a Culture Nor a Religion !

And YOU KNOW that The Jewish "Religion " Usually Stays with Their Own People ! not Marrying a Non Jew
and by some having a children with a Non Jew is Shunned upon ! and Males marrying a Non Jew the Children they have cannot be Jewish but a Female Jew marrying a Non Jew Children Can Be Purifying like a Selective Race! are you going to Argue with that ?

reply to post by tbonedude


this i agree with. they admit where their ancestors screwed up. problem i'm seeing is, they are trying to justify their reasoning by claiming the other side is animalistic, whereas they are not. there's something very dishonest about not owning up to your own shortcomings, since it suggests they can claim to be righteous while simultaneously claiming the other guy isn't righteous, based on what? this tradition is followed by almost every world view on the planet. some have even taken up the traidtion of referring to people who don't follow the same religion or non-religion as them as being "gentiles" or "kafirs" or "sinners." or "naive idiots" well hell, according to jesus, we're all "sinners," and "idiots" and the only thing that makes anybody eligible for anything good is the grace of god, not the "righteousness" or "intelligence" of people, which is like filthy rags.

i don't think he was only referring to gentiles when he said that. pretty sure the text meant everyone. and it pretty well covers the idea that no one group of people will ever be more righteous or intelligent than another because even those who practice devotion to their faith or worship at the altar of science, are all still in the same boat.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


And Certain a Race's ! They Have Genetic Defects ! just as some Black have the Sickle Cell Disorter
it Only Portrays To the Jews well Mostly ...

Health - Jewish Diseases
Learn about Canavan, Tay-Sachs, and other diseases which affect the Jewish population.
judaism.about.com...

Most Common Jewish Genetic Disorders

Mendelian Disorders are the direct result of mutated genes
Bloom Syndrome
Canavan Disease
Crohn's Disease
Factor XI Deficiency
Familial Dysautonomia (Riley-Day syndrome)
Fanconi Anemia
Gaucher Disease
Mucolipidosis IV
Niemann-Pick Disease
Non-Classical Adrenal Hyperplasia
Nonsyndromic Hearing Loss
Tay-Sachs Disease
Torsion Dystonia

Do we need to Continue ?

Jewish Genetic Disorders
judaism.about.com...


It might not be Racial but it sure is about Ethnics


Possible?

DNA and the Origins of the Jewish Ethnic Groups
www.rasch.org...