Praying in Paris streets outlawed

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Thats France for you. Like anyone is really going to pray in the street and get hit, this is just a push to outlaw Faiths, as you will see eventually. I predict that in the near future all religion/faiths will be outlawed.

I hope so. Wouldn't that be a wonderful world? So peaceful. No bickering. No killing over what religion someone is or is not. No hate based on stupidity. No silly rituals. No silly rules over what kind of clothing one (mostly women) should or should not wear.

.... and on and on. Sadly, too good to be true tho. The nonsense will prevail. Sigh ...

I personally do not see this split as having it's sources in religion here in France. Though with laws such as this being brought in, I think it will become so.

In France, people who are angry and predjudiced say "arabs", not "muslims". It is not the religion or it's practices that are a problem. It is the crime level and refusal to integrate that is a problem. Like I pointed out, laws having nothing at all to do with religion are not respected by them (does Allah prohibit wearing a helmet? Does Allah promote stealing a car? Does the Koran say that they must block off a public street and keep all infidels from being able to use it? Does Allah command that one should not work and should live solely off of state aid?).

It has been a social problem with deep roots in cultural differences, and past history but really religion was not the basis of the conflicts. The french not being very religious themselves (a major percentage are self proclaimed atheists, even if they go to a church for marriages, baptisms and funerals, because of traditional custom) they don't focus on the religious angle. They do focus on the genetic and cultural differences though.

I am pretty predjudiced, though I reserve judgement upon individuals when I meet them. But I had to have my home vandalized, my child beaten up, my husband and I harrassed and had rocks thrown at us, and our home bombed twice before I formed this attitude. Those things had NOTHING to do with religion! They were done by a gang of arab speaking teens and young adults, probably all muslim, I don't know, probably algerian and moroccan. They were done because they identify with the arab speaking countries, Desert Storm had started and they found out I was american... and they were just bored and disrespectful kids with nothing better to do.

But my defensiveness grew tenfold when the police told us they couldn't do anything at all. They had orders not to go into the arab neighborhood, and it was too dangerous for them to respond. If they had been doing their job, I wouldn't need to get alert and defensive! After the second bomb, we left for the mountains.

I understand that in the US, the religious factor is the focus, but in France, up to now, it hasn't been.

Religion is not the problem... religious nut cases that wish to enforce there ideology in a un peaceful manner are the problem... Also I think France is really the first country to deal with this problem on a large scale, very soon in my estimation most of the western world will be experiencing this problem. In my opinion the way to stop it is to criminalize the act not the religion and to enforce your traffic laws without fear of reprisal. Interestingly and likely this law against praying in the street will only affect the good and upright citizen because he/she is the only one who will respect the law. Only creating more dissidence among the criminals who already don’t care. You must enforce your laws among everyone with no fear of reprisal; otherwise someone’s rights are being violated. Anyway I hope you all find a solution as I have experienced this to be a problem in France

People, being people, sometimes do stupid things. Religion is just one excuse many people use to do their stupid acts. But its not because of religion. It is because they are people -- prone to mistake.

That is why there are laws to help keep some sort of peace. Laws should supercede religion -- always. Its when religion gets too much slack that problems happen. It doesn't matter whether it is Islam, Christianity or Judaism, they all need to be tempered with secular law or all hell would be the norm, ironically.

So yes, the laws should be enforce -- the existing ones that are secular and that is all that is needed.

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
reply to post by buddha

 

They arent stopping and praying as i thought they were also.

They are organizing HUGE groups that take over entire streets...thousands of muslims descending on a street and shutting it down...traffic as well.

Id be majorly pissed if this were happening in the UK. Im glad the French government has the balls to stand up to these people. ITS NOT A MUSLIM COUNTRY.

It does happen in the UK. There's at least one Mosque in London where the street outside is completely blocked once a week by muslims kneeling in prayer, and the authorities tolerate it.

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
Just typed...

"Muslims praying in paris" into google and found this...

www.jihadwatch.org...

No wonder they want it banned....its a disgrace! Its NOT a Muslim country...get over it or get out of it...simples.

Tons of videos PROVING its a major problem on youtube...type what i typed into google into youtube

edit on 15-9-2011 by loves a conspiricy because: (no reason given)

Wow man

All those arses stuck up in the air like that, makes me want to plant my boot on a few of them Not because they are muslim arses (before anyone jumps all over me), it's just that if I see a derriere in the air, the devil in me is tempted to kick it

I do agree with some posters though, in that the French should have been enforcing the existing law regarding obstructing public highways, rather than creating a new law.

How are they going to enforce this new law when they can't enforce the existing one?

ETA: I can't see any muslim women praying in the video's. Why are there no women? Are they not allowed to pray? Where are they?

reply to post by Motorhead


Unless they are permitted to do so, then you should not tolerate this, as this is just the beginning. to our brother country if they are permitting such criminal behavior.

Nothing more than an Undercover Modern Day Crusade under the guise of religous freedom.

People are just too stupid to realize what's actually going on.

That's why we have schedules and appointments. I guess next time you're late for work, you're just going to pull out your desk and conduct business on the side of the road? Get real.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
You know that's an excellent point
Personally I am an agnostic, I am comfortable believing that we don't know the answer
People call that undecided
Nope, I am decisively agnostic
I believe that we don't know what the real answer is
And it's because of that that I see atheists and religious people as different sides of the same coin

I think pretty much the same as you, I was declared agnostic for quite some time, but after few years, I kinda started leaning towards belief that a higher-being, among other names we call God, in fact exists. But that's all I can say. I base it on notion that such a complex world as one surrounding us, with all of its paradoxes and wonders, that we can't even begin to imagine, couldnt just simply pop into existence, creating laws of physics, dimensions, along with energy that cant be erased, but only change state (perhaps entropy diminish it a little).
Im sure that we will be never able to understand fully how world around us "tick", most acclaimed theory of everything, string theory, clearly states that more dimensions exists then we can experence. True is, we can't even imagine them, anyone who tells you otherwise, is either lying or deluding himself.
(I do believe though, that certain 'drugs' can give a peak of beyond our plane, highly discussional, so I wont even defend it )
I despise all religious organizations trying (and succeding) to steal heart and minds of people, divide and feud them, for political and economical reasons.
True god has no names, no sons, no servants, does not interfere with our business, he simply IS our universe.
peace

Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by spw184

 

we would all be atheists

You say that like it's a bad thing.......If everyone gave up on religion tommorow there'd be alot less animosity in the world.

edit on 15-9-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)

Tell that to the people who lost their lives during the bolshevik revolution

I think it's inconsiderate and probably some antagonistic elements involved (hardlined Wahabi/Salafi influences).

However I have had the pleasure of standing in a congregation and praying with other Muslims, of different colours (Yes quite shocking but Muslims are not predominately brown/Asian...) and it's a pretty amazing experience, that feeling of being connected - even more so when you pray outside.

But...

There is a time and place. The bottom line is that if you have no where to pray, you can do so anywhere where it's clean but a Muslim should be aware of his surroundings and considerate of the location and people so as to not upset anyone.

Unfortunately some people do it out of pride and arrogance or in most cases, ignorance.

Mocking and slandering other people gets us no where, just brings us down to a lowly level where we don't belong as human beings.

reply to post by doobydoll

Muslim women are not allowed to pray with the men.... many of them are likely at home praying they don't get treated like chattle today, or....worse.

I am not anti muslim but their Sharia law is pretty harsh against women. By this law it is perfectly fine to kill any family female that brings *dishonor* to the family, among other things. It is a very big reason there is so much controversy about this issue being FAR more than about religious freedom

reply to post by spw184


We are not that lucky!

reply to post by Dezero


Tell THAT to the people in the Crusades who died? Christians are murderers as well.

Its a good and a bad thing at the same time. Its good that there concerned enof to stop them from praying in the street they could get mowwed down. It is a bad thing in the way it will be taken. I'm sure the muslim's will see it as a personal attack on the believes. I can see it in major cities but the sec it starts to include the whole country the resentment might hit a breaking point.

Originally posted by EvolEric
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

I dont care what religion you are...

As long as it does not endanger others...
Pray where you want...
When you want...

For example... I'll pray here.

"Dear Lord,

Please forgive the French...
They are but ignorant and weak minded...
Have mercy on their ways...
While your at it, please encourage them to bathe

-Amen"

edit on 9/15/11 by EvolEric because: (no reason given)

Thanks for your example. You've basically shown why mass prayer in public by Muslims should not be allowed. Imagine 500 hundred Muslims all praying the same ignorant thing you just did, in public, in France.

You'd likely have a riot on your hands.

Originally posted by Tony4211
reply to post by Dezero

 

Tell THAT to the people in the Crusades who died? Christians are murderers as well.

Hate to break it to you buddy, but if that's the mindset of the average Muslim, then you and every other Muslim is literally living hundreds of years in the past.

I think that much is apparent, as shown by the suppressive customs and laws that Muslims to this day, still follow.

I'm glad France put an end to this.
Any other non-islamic country should do the exact same thing.
France isn't an islamic country. Canada isn't an islamic country. America isn't an islamic country.
Yet, they all TRY to accommodate the muslims. This leads to things getting out of hand.
What happens if a group of Christians, or Catholics, or Jews goes to an islamic country to live?
They aren't allowed to pray or read their respective sacred books out loud at home, or in churches, due to the fact that a muslim could hear it.
They cannot bear the Cross on their homes or churches.
They are not allowed to congregate on the streets during their religious festivals.
When a Christian or a Jew practices their religious beliefs publicly, it is seen as an enticement to get the muslims there to reject the Islamic faith.

Oh, and PLEASE do correct me if I'm wrong. ^^^
All of this just seems silly. Non Islamic countries cater to THEIR beliefs, and even tolerate their actions when they are very, very inconvenient.
When non-islamic countries have laws that get in the way of Muslim religious practices, they are chastised for "specifically targeting the Islam faith" when they try to enforce them. That is garbage, my friends.
A High school in Toronto has banned Christian prayer but allows muslim prayer. That's great and all...for the muslims who are living in a non islamic country. I'm sure I could find other examples of just how unfair things are becoming. Matter of fact, i'm sure anyone could find other examples quite easily.

For the record, I'm not religious at all. I don't believe in a god or a deity of any kind. It just makes no sense to, imho. I like the muslim people just fine. My only problem is how much many non-islamic countries bend for them, and then how the same countries are chastised when they try to enforce laws and orders that apply to even non muslims in the non-islamic countries.

Cheers

Hey guys so i'm kinda new here but this discussion is really interesting to me because I'm Muslim and we have 5 prayers each day every muslim has to do it in order to please Allah (God)the one and only it's a duty not a choice..anyway I think that praying in streets is not really right in case you have a Mosque near you especially where you are in foreign country..we respect the people so I guess muslims shoud pray in their mosques BUT if there wasn't a mosque near them and the pray time enters they have to pray in a clean calm place not street maybe park or something I don't know tell me what you think

This is what I think of the whole thing , please feel free to copy my drawing and repost it, make shirts out of it, posters, and fliers, let them know we are not scared. and be sure to tell them "I did it",

youtu.be...