Praying in Paris streets outlawed

There are laws already covering public disturbances,
we don't need laws regulating prayers.
So much for being free. (false illusion)

reply to post by ToneDeaf


Freedom in my estimation is choice within a closed system?

It makes me laugh out loud to read the people who imagine France is so unfair to minorities, to religious freedom, individual freedom..... if you had ANY idea how you are totally going down the wrong street there!

I used to be pretty liberal. I grew up in So. Cal. by hippies. What I found here is that like anything, you can also go to an extreme with this too. Respecting peoples rights is important..... and when one persons actions are running over and causing problems for others, they are no longer respecting the rights of others!
If a Christian group puts up road blocks on either end of YOUR street, illegally, has their own big guards set up on each end, and once a week holds a huge congregation of hundreds on that street to worship..... during which you must stay in your home and not go out, or if you are not home, you must wait outside the neighborhood a few hours until you are allowed to go home.

These silly comments about one person being able to pray in the streets.........
The french like to verbalize. Remember the french knight in The Holy Grail? (now go away or I shall taunt you again!) Words are a big deal to them. Action is much less taken. Saying the Burka is illegal soudns shocking and had an impact on people- but I saw one in the gorcery store just a day ago. Was anyone bothering her? No. And they won't. It was all announced to make an official statement about "how we feel about this" and that's IT!

The people imagining that the french government has some sort of power to oppress, enforce rules or laws, or do anything to the people are apparently so used to having a strong armed government of their own they cannot even imagine one this powerless over it's people.

For a while the french people have basically been disciplining themselves- the government and authority is ignored, while culture and social pressures kept everyone respectful of each other. No one did anything because the police said they had to, but because their friends would judge them harshly for it.

Freedom? They have had MORE freedom than the americans, from what I can see! I have lived half my life in one country, half in the other, and my perception is that the french have had much more freedom than america, and the problems I have seen come from that extreme freedom has made me personally see a lot of reason and benefit to having a little power enforced from a government.

They are, in their extreme and careful respect of individual rights, religion, culture, freedom, being completely taken over.

edited to add: a good hint at the way this government works is that to make this law, the Muslim leaders had to be in agreement with it first! If the Muslims were not in agreement, it could not have been passed. Think about the implications, and tell me the muslims are being abused here and their rights walked upon!

And this is the balance of group rights and individual rights when your government sways to far one way peoples right are abused this is the problem with all governments. love France by the way, I was shown much love by the people when attending our D day memorial.

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
I guess that France does not have the equivalent of a first amendment. Our first amendment rights are pretty eroded in the US but if someone tried to ban praying in public the ACLU and the constitutionalists on the right and the left would be shouting that law down at the top of their lungs. Who ever proposed it might find they have no safe place to avoid media attention.

hahahahaha, i guess you don't understand that 1st amendment you tout do ya?
there is no Constitutional protection for such an offensive act that in turn prohibits or directly interferes with the public function.

on a private street is one thing on a public street ... get lost.
oh and btw, the ACLU wouldn't touch this with a 10ft pole, they aren't that stupid over there.
where do you kids get such ideas anyway?

I was reading an article a while back about this problem, I am pretty sure they were calling it *swarming* muslims converging and jamming up entire segments towns for *prayer* all very politically based and pure intimidation tactics. I don't blame the French for wanting to stop it but to ban all public prayer just seems like liberals hopping on the bandwagon to make all public displays of any faith illegal.

Like an earlier poster said, they could have easily kept this about obstructing traffic and clogging public areas without getting proper permits etc etc

Bottom line, streets are for drivers and sidewalks for pedestrians unless there is some sort of pre arranged and approved event. I see no reason to hassling one person sitting on a park bench praying....

Originally posted by Cinaed


Like an earlier poster said, they could have easily kept this about obstructing traffic and clogging public areas without getting proper permits etc etc

That is already illegal, and they are already breaking that law when they do this.

They were holding up the right to religious practice as reasoning. The reason for this particular law, was in trying to get the idea of Secularism across to the Muslim leaders and community, who have no notion of it. They do not separate state and religion in their minds, for them "the right to practice your religion" gives them the right to "force others to submit to your religion" ....because that is part of their religious beliefs!

They ended up having the state provide them with a place of worship.

So, it was a stupid and ineffectual effort, (like the burqa law). In their effort to separate state and religion, they ended up mixing them- to the Muslims benefit.
France: 0 Islam:3

We as a world have really become bigoted since 9/11. I remember when I was a kid, when "Live and let live" was the policy of the day. As long as you don't harm anyone else, do what you want. These days, we see someone praying on the streets and we get annoyed. It's a sad world we're living in.

Why don't we just give them this inch and let them pray on the bloody streets? Be the bigger men. And if they block our paths, let's just walk around them with a smile and a friendly nod. Because I've got a news flash for you. If we do it this time, next time it will be THEM who give US an inch. It's called mutual respect and peaceful coexistence.

And the fact I referred to us as US and THEM in this post is enough to make me want to flog myself.

This is a cheap shop to gain votes in France. There is a LOT of racial tension in France and banning the Burka proved a popular move for politicians there so there you go, I dated a girl for a long time who moved to Paris for a year and believe me there is a lot of aggression in that city towards all kinds of people from foreigners like myself to women who wear makeup even. With people settling seeking asylum from other countries the ghettos are increasin in size and these areas seem to be despised by the elite. This is just one way of twisting the knife, Muslims prey many times a day and often will prey on the spot if they have to, I doubt it will cause too much of a problem practically, it has just be done to provoke muslims even more and win over votes from the large anti-muslim voting base.

reply to post by David_Reale

would you like some cheese with your whine ?

1. respect is earned not demanded.
* Respect thy Host then receive.
* do try to remember, Greece isn't required to accept or keep ya (immigrant)
2. mutual = each respect the other
3. also, mutual = agreed cooperation
4. peaceful coexistence arrives when then other three are met "mutually"

It's called mutual respect and peaceful coexistence.

tip --> a good place to start is by respecting your Host ... ie Greece ... including her citizens, laws, streets and communities.
peace

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Wow. I've always viewed France as being weak and easy to march over and I guess in time of global war that's still true but it seems that it's the only country in the western world with the spine to stop this stuff from getting out of hand which is happening everywhere in the western world and all our governments haven't had the spine or will to stop it.

Good, I'm clapping from this. People go overboard doing #. Pray silently, don't break out and kneel in the middle of the bleeding supermarket! We don't want to see you, let alone hear you.

I know they're slowly cutting of the freedoms but this should've been done long ago. I live down the street from a church, I've seen people kneeling on the streets in prayer. Oh please, spare me, I told one man to walk inside the church and go pray. I just don't want to see you.
If America did this, there would be a riot. In god we trust over here, and only half the population listens.

Originally posted by David_Reale


Why don't we just give them this inch and let them pray on the bloody streets? Be the bigger men. And if they block our paths, let's just walk around them with a smile and a friendly nod. Because I've got a news flash for you. If we do it this time, next time it will be THEM who give US an inch. It's called mutual respect and peaceful coexistence.

I think you don't understand. In this video, see the guys with the orange arm bands? These are the guards or bouncers, that take the role of blocking the street. They are recruited amongst the largest and most impressive of the muslim men. They put up barriers (in this video, it was just a ribbon, in most of the other vids you can find, they are the metal kind) so cars cannot get through. I have seen them physically pick up a man and keep him from entering the street on foot. You smile and nod? They will pick you up and throw you away. If you resist, you will be subdued physically.

They have no permit, they have no legal right to block the street, for people on foot or cars. They are making their own law, and enforcing it upon others. The people that live on that street cannot "walk on by" to go home.

Mutual respect means BOTH respecting one another.



and that was a rainy day, so there was less! Look at this to see the nromal numbers, and imagine how impossible it is to walk through this, even if the guards were to let you-

reply to post by clintdelicious


There was a case in Australia not long ago when a woman wearing a Burka falsely accused a police officer of pulling up her Burka after pulling her over for speeding. The liar who tried to use her religion to get revenge on a man doing his job to protect the community didn't realise she was being recorded by the dash cam on the police car but it clearly showed that not only did the police officer "not" even attemp to pull up her Burka, it also recorded her telling the police officer that she'll make sure he gets fired.

She was sentenced to 6 months prison for her crime of bearing false witness but she got off on appeal because the appeal court ruled that though she was guilty the court could not be satisfied that it was actually her who walked into the police station later to make the false complaint as that person was wearing a Burka.

And of course when she avoided going to prison her family rubbed it in the face of the general community by shouting akba allah or whatever they say when they shout God is great outside the court room.

Kick em all out and send them home if they don't adapt to the culture of the country they live off.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


If people want to prey in the streets there should be nothing wrong with that.. They are our streets.....

im starting to want to move to france more and more.

keep god out of everything and everywhere

France has always been very strict and controlling. A desperate attempt to keep things the way they...were.

Its too late, You can not accept millions of immigrants and expect your culture not to change.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

If people want to prey in the streets there should be nothing wrong with that.. They are our streets.....

LOL! A very fitting mispelling!
If people not praying want to walk or drive down the streets, there should be nothing wrong with that either.
Unfortunately those praying do not see it that way.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
im starting to want to move to france more and more.

keep god out of everything and everywhere

Dude, you spoke the truth. I know some French. If I move to France it'll get better so France is about to become my home.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Am I going to be allowed to meditate in the park in Paris?

Meditating is not praying. If you would want to pray you do it in your home or at the temple, the exemption is during religious festivals. I have lived in a buddhist country a couple of years and I think I've never seen one person praying in the streets.

I think France is right to ban religious activity on the street, if people want to pray then they should do so in private. Maybe public praying rooms?