Praying in Paris streets outlawed

Originally posted by Honor93
finally !!! the French get some kahunas and enforce the laws of the land.

They didn't "ENFORCE" the law, they made a new one. And it probably won't be enforced, either. It never ceases to amaze me when so-called "pro-freedom" people advocate more restrictive laws on personal freedoms.

PRAYING isn't the problem - blocking traffic is. Kneeling in the street is the problem.
Muslims aren't the problem - lack of law enforcement is.

So they make another law that specifically targets religion (praying) and people rejoice, thinking they've stuck it to the Muslims. :shk:

I'm an atheist and I can see this is a violation of personal freedom. I stand up for the rights of those with whom I disagree... What's your excuse for not doing the same?

Would you all be so supportive if Obama made a law stating that Christian celebrations off of church property were being outlawed based on the traffic problems they cause?

Originally posted by Honor93
breaking laws to pray any way you want should land you in jail.

EXACTLY! Breaking existing laws should be addressed, not making MORE laws to address the lack of enforcement.

Originally posted by Honor93
hahahahaha, i guess you don't understand that 1st amendment you tout do ya?
there is no Constitutional protection for such an offensive act that in turn prohibits or directly interferes with the public function.

Praying is an offensive act? You're offended, so you think it's OK to outlaw it? Blocking the street is already against the law. I can't believe you support making something illegal because you find it offensive. I'm honestly baffled that someone who purports to support freedom is supporting this government intrusion...

you know what's funny?

I think it's funny that those arguing with each other probably agree with each other
it's just that they word it differently

also not everyone read the article and understand exactly what's going on

BH is correct, there was no need for a new law

Btw BenevolentHeretic I have an interesting story for you, kinda spooky
As i've mentioned to you before the dog in your AV always stares at me
but a few weeks ago it was staring at me again and then I swear I saw the dog move
and as soon as it moved... BAMMMM.... electricity goes off and BAMMMM Huge thunder strike so loud
then I wanted to run out of the basement but there was no light, my heart was beating so fast
I don't know about that dog man, I think you should take it to an exorcist.
That was so spooky

reply to post by Cinaed


It is better described as "open Jihad" than "swarming".

The muslims in France feel it is time for the intifada. They will continue to engage in Jihad until one of two things happen. 1) France submits to Allah and begins pray towards Mecca and the black rock from space. or 2) France expels the muslims from their land.

France can go the way of Albania or Lebanon or Egypt or so many other nations that have fallen to the Islamic Empire over the last 1,400 years or they can begin to fight for their culture and their way of life.

Well it's awkward when you are minding your own business, buying a baguette and suddenly you trip over a muslim.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I think it's funny that those arguing with each other probably agree with each other
it's just that they word it differently

also not everyone read the article and understand exactly what's going on

And this is the problem. People JUMP to conclusions and positions before really thinking about it. They let their distaste for certain groups rule their logical thought. I know some people are mad at and threatened by Muslims, but that's no reason to go overboard and disregard the rights of other people. (In the US) people have the right to practice their religion. PRAYING is a personal behavior and freedom, protected by the first amendment. Kneeling in the streets and blocking traffic is NOT.

I swear I saw the dog move and as soon as it moved... BAMMMM.... electricity goes off and BAMMMM Huge thunder strike so loud then I wanted to run out of the basement but there was no light, my heart was beating so fast
I don't know about that dog man, I think you should take it to an exorcist.

He is so well-trained! And telepathic, too! Goooood boy, Jaia!

quote Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

PRAYING isn't the problem - blocking traffic is. Kneeling in the street is the problem. Muslims aren't the problem - lack of law enforcement is.

Well I am pretty sure that if the average Frech Parisienne decided to kneel down on the road or pavement he or she would be arrested PDQ.

The problem is not law enforcement per se - it is PC intimidation, ie the Police are effectively intimitated by the assured violent reaction of Muslims from enforcing the law.

This law will never be enforced, it seems at the moment that they have been bought off by a concession for a new mosque - but many I predict will soon just disregard it completely and carry on blocking the streets - because after all as muslims they take precedence over the filthy kuffar infidel swine.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
(In the US) people have the right to practice their religion. PRAYING is a personal behavior and freedom, protected by the first amendment. Kneeling in the streets and blocking traffic is NOT.

France isn't the US and shouldn't be judged against the American system. I wholly support Frances decision. There are many things in western/secular culture that muslims show an open distaste for and are quick to complain about how it insults their sensitivities.

I would imagine that the Islamic call to prayer in the middle of the street may insult the cultural sensitivities of the secular French. Muslims were more than aware that France was secular when they moved there.

IRM

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Well I am pretty sure that if the average Frech Parisienne decided to kneel down on the road or pavement he or she would be arrested PDQ.

And that's what they should have done with ANYONE who did that. If the authorities are intimidated and unwilling to enforce existing laws, what makes anyone think they will enforce this new one?

The problem is not law enforcement per se - it is PC intimidation, ie the Police are effectively intimitated by the assured violent reaction of Muslims from enforcing the law.

An intimidated police force is worthless. Making more laws that the cops are afraid to enforce is useless. It's not the Muslims' fault the the police are cowards and flinch at danger. That's their freaking job! If they can't enforce the law, they have no business being in the position.

This is oppression of a religion. I'm not saying they should be allowed to kneel in the street and block traffic. They should be arrested for doing so. But this law does NOTHING to aid the situation.

I totally agree that instead of making a new law, the already existing laws about obstructing and blocking public streets without permit for large manifestations should have been enforced!!

This is how most french people feel too. The authorities are blamed for not taking action on those grounds 15 years ago.

The problem is always the same- it is the socialists, the liberals, who cry out if you try to do that though- they say that the muslims are being predjudiced against and their right to religion oppressed. Exactly as so many in this thread are saying. This is what freezes up the authorities.

Up to now they have chosen to side with the muslims doing this because making them unhappy will cause physical damage to property and people...... siding with the rest of the population (who'd like to share usage of the streets) means they will grumble to each other but not burn cars, not riot, not hurt anyone.

But this choice IS the reason racism is growing! This is why resentment and hatred is spreading.

They are just always worried about being accused of being racist, so it ends up being reverse racism.

This won't be enforced at all. The state will give the a building to go in, while it spends tons of money building them a new one, and the resentment of the french will grow (since this also transgresses the laws of separating state and religion) and the rift between the two groups shall get more and more violent.

I get so irritated by people who accept roles of leadership, authority, or responsibility, but are so worried about being liked and not being criticized that they do not fulfil their obligations and responsibilities!

It's the same with the burqua thing- the law already existed that in public, you are not allowed to cover your face. They didn't need to add an amendment for the veil in particular! They just needed to enforce the existing law period.

Originally posted by Six6Six
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Good news. I hope this spreads to the whole of Europe.

In my opinion, and only my opinion, where you find someone praying you find an idiot with poor self esteem and a weak and gullible nature.

Best news I have heard all week. Hopefully this is the first step to outlawing the ridiculous concept and fad that is religion.

I actually, this is not a joke at all, rank religious people lower than animals. It is my BELIEF that religious people will be the ones who are sacrificed when we eventually cull the population. Let's pray that happens

edit on 15-9-2011 by Six6Six because: (no reason given)

So it's should be against the law to be a gullible idiot? Lets just jail 99% of the world. If you have a problem with someone who is praying then where does that poor self esteem really is? If you outlaw religion then you may just as well outlaw everyting fictional. Books and movies to go first. Not to mention that there is millions of faithfull out there who are doing perfectly well without your intervention.
Now lets pray.... that... wait a minute???

reply to post by Bluesma


If people would recognize the 1,400 year old threat that Jihad poses for all non-muslims, then the problem would be more readily addressed.

As long as people continue to deny Jihad, they will fall to Jihad. And the Islamic Empire will continue to gobble up nation after nation.

I just want to point out, that non-believers, atheists, agnostics, or people like me, who simply believe in god, but disregard existing religious orders, very rarely have a problem with praying people in their vicinity.

It's nearly always the believers, from other major religious, who feel offended that someone is praying to the wrong god.
You know, "You shall have no other gods before Him, they are sinners and blasphemic, kiiiiill them. Thankfully some parts of our world live in 'age of reason', so they will not kill them. They will make rules, regulations, which breaking will bring repercussions.
Some other parts aren't so "civilized", praying with hands together and cross around your neck would be considered "deliberate suicide" in them.

Originally posted by Bluesma
The authorities are blamed for not taking action on those grounds 15 years ago.

As well they should be. It's like raising a child to be a spoiled, rotten brat and then wondering why they 'act out' as they grow up. Authorities cannot neglect their duties and obligations for years and then expect everything to be hunky dory. They should have cracked down (with secular law) long ago. But, failing that, they need to do it now. I hope this kind of thing doesn't happen in the US.

Originally posted by stainlesssteelrat
I just want to point out, that non-believers, atheists, agnostics, or people like me, who simply believe in god, but disregard existing religious orders, very rarely have a problem with praying people in their vicinity.

Very true. This is a religious war among competing religions. Christian and Muslim. People need to own up to that and stop this ridiculous power struggle. Christians are JUST as guilty as Muslims for perpetrating Jihad. They've been doing it for centuries.

I cannot believe how many of you do not see this is as a blatant slap in the face to personal freedom..

Today it's public prayer.. tomorrow it's further down the slippery slope.

Originally posted by stainlesssteelrat
I just want to point out, that non-believers, atheists, agnostics, or people like me, who simply believe in god, but disregard existing religious orders, very rarely have a problem with praying people in their vicinity.

It's nearly always the believers, from other major religious, who feel offended that someone is praying to the wrong god.

You know that's an excellent point
Personally I am an agnostic, I am comfortable believing that we don't know the answer
People call that undecided
Nope, I am decisively agnostic
I believe that we don't know what the real answer is
And it's because of that that I see atheists and religious people as different sides of the same coin

So a christian praying would be the same to me as a muslim praying

But I wouldn't want neither blocking the road

However a muslim might not like a christian praying and vice versa

So yes you make an excellent point that didn't strike me as soon as I read the article

reply to post by DaMod


Muslims do not believe in individual rights. Islam does not enshrine the individual.

Stop denying Jihad.

Originally posted by DaMod
I cannot believe how many of you do not see this is as a blatant slap in the face to personal freedom..

Today it's public prayer.. tomorrow it's further down the slippery slope.

edit on 16-9-2011 by DaMod because: (no reason given)

But today it's NOT public prayer
Did you read the article?

Well maybe it is public praying BUT ON THE STREETS
there was no need to create this new law, there was already one as BH mentioned for blocking roads

So the thing is everyone here probably agrees with one another

but everyone should stop, read the entire article, think and then post

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
Muslims do not believe in individual rights. Islam does not enshrine the individual.

Muslims do believe in individual rights
however perhaps hardcore muslims do not

but neither do hardcore any other religion either

you have to come to the realization that all abrahamic religions are all the same

reply to post by mike_trivisonno


In western society we do believe in personal freedom.. We do believe in a person's freedom to practice whatever religion they see fit.. If a person wants to talk to god they should be able to do that whenever they want without fear of persecution...