"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

reply to post by Haydn_17

We all dont live in the USA.

Nope, we don't.

And the constitution is the biggest load of bull.

The American Constitution does exist. It's the law of the land - worthy of protection, and there when it's needed.

I fear what might happen if it's 'rendered obsolete.'

"Judge not, lest ye be judged". I say...."I have FRIENDS." That is always how Ive said it.

My approval or disapproval is irrelevant. God made all...and the rainbow....and loves us unconditionally...just as we are. Yellow, Red, Black, White, gay, straight, bi, transgenders, foreign, domestic, politically different, culturally diverse...all loved by God...just as we are.

Love and tolerance of all friends...

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Annee

 

I am not buying into any hype, I am speaking of personal experience, of gay people that I know... My uncle(not really my uncle, my father's cousin, but might as well be my uncle) is gay, he is cool, he does not act out for shock factor, he just seems like a normal guy. Some of the other gay people I know remind me of Howard Stern, they grab people's asses that they know are straight, "for a joke". They will surprise straight people by either randomly kissing each other, or surprise kissing people at random.

So what!

As you are pointing out - Howard Stern is not gay. He is straight and in your face.

It is not a gay thing. But you are trying to make it a gay thing.

Some straights act like they're gonna "catch gay" - - if a gay person touches them. Get over it.

Ostracized people who have been forced to live on the edge or underground in society create their own sub-culture. The more they become main stream - - the more the sub-culture behavior will subside.

Originally posted by _WC2_
I'll be honest. I have some gay friends who I absolutely hate. I have some gay friends who I adore (non sexually).

What it comes down to is the human element. We are all human.

The only reason gay marriage is banned in most places is because we don't practice what we preach: Separation of Church and State.

Exactly! As I keep stating: "Gays are NOT a group think".

They are just people.

There are plenty of on the fringe straights - - but they all have equal rights. Equal Rights is every person's right.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Am I able to maintain a strong and healthy friendship with somebody who is a Vegetarian even though I am a meat lover? Does the fact I think their lifestyle - not eating meat - is harmful for their health mean I want them to be miserable and don't want them to have the same rights as me?

I am so sick of this particular argument over and over and over and over.

It is NOT a Lifestyle - - - it is an Orientation.

A physical/chemical mixed soup human being who is wired to be attracted to the same sex. Period!

Its not about what they do - - - its about how they were born. If you can't accept that - - then you aren't a friend.

Originally posted by Annee
As another poster suggested. Stop speaking - start listening.

Originally posted by wayno
If you truly want to understand something, then it is usually a good idea to stop talking, and start listening.

Those large posts you make are the equivalent of doing all the talking. Stepping back and taking time to digest may be a good idea. Understanding is what we all want. Acceptance would be great, but understanding is a good point to get to along the journey.

You know, I hadn't planned on coming back to this thread, but these statements really irked me, and is the epitome of the intolerance you say you hate so much. I have always been fluent with my communication. I guess you could say I was born that way. I don't have a choice.

I may be many things, but I am not ignorant. I most certainly HAVE been paying attention and reading every word, every angry post, every insulting, sarcastic statement. I think I'll just let your own words speak for themselves just to make several points. One, that it wouldn't matter how long my posts were....as long as they agreed with your views. Two, your word choices are a conscious reflection of what you think. Your word FREQUENCY, however, is what you subconsciously think. I think you'll find some things quite revealing.

Hopefully my math is correct, since I only counted once...this took me a while. I'm sure you'll understand if I didn't double check my work. Even if they are off, it will only be by a matter of one or two.

Number of posts in this thread from my 3 biggest foes on the topic, compared to my own:

1. Sinnthia - 81
2. Annee - 74
3. Wayno - 39
4. Me - 23

Word counts of all posts combined, not including quotes:

1. Sinnthia - 6,270
2. Me - 6,240
3. Wayno - 4,423
4. Annee - 3,709

Analysis of all the posts of each individual, combined (not all info was posted due to the sheer length of each):

1. Sinnthia:
Number of different words : 1022

You 344 10.2%
your 69 2%
gay 59 1.7%
how 55 1.6%
what 49 1.4%
just 45 1.3%
being 32 0.9%
say 30 0.9%
sex 30 0.9%
people 30 0.9%
(*interesting to note that "love" was WAY down the list, used only 6 times)

Phrase Frequency:

Expression Expression count
gay is a choice 6
being gay is a 6
to have sex with 4
chose to be straight 4
being gay is a choice 6
the way they were born 3
i can choose to eat 2
explain to me how you 2
need to fix it i 2
and need to fix it 2

2. Annee:
Number of different words : 904

you 54
gay 51
gays 29
rights 25
just 21
your 18
being 16
what 16
same 16
don't 16
(*the word "love" was WAY down the list, used only 5 times)

Phrase frequency:

Expression Expression count
is a choice 7
there is 5
nothing to do with 4
has nothing to do 4
belief is a choice 3
has nothing to do with 4
belief is a choice 3
it is not a defect 3
is nothing wrong with their 3
there is nothing wrong with 3
is a choice 3
rights and property of those 3

3. Wayno:
Number of different words : 1008

you 134 5.7%
people 41 1.8%
your 36 1.5%
gay 34 1.5%
just 27 1.2%
don't 22 0.9%
like 21 0.9%
what 21 0.9%
those 20 0.9%
way 20 0.9%
(*The word "love" was WAY down the list, used only 5 times.)

Phrase frequency:

Expression Expression count
there are 3
you are free to 3
i don't think 3
experience the world differently 2
i also 2
i am beginning to 2
care about your opinions 2
there are things that are 2
sexuality you are free to 2
i believe the 2
more to being human than 2
i am not going to 2
or not you can resist 2
whether or not you can 2

4. Me:
Number of different words : 1286

you 59 1.8%
what 45 1.4%
them 41 1.2%
don't 36 1.1%
gays 33 1%
gay 32 1%
it's 30 0.9%
just 29 0.9%
friends 23 0.7%
want 22 0.7%
(*I used the word "love" a whopping 16 times, not including the ones in this post.)

Phrase Frequency:

Expression Expression count
gays want 6
i have friends that 5
consider them friends 5
i have friends 5
is a learned behavior 4
could have gone down 4
have friends that are 4
still consider them friends 4
i still consider them 4
friends i have 4
why can' t my 3
why can' t 3
someone of the same sex 3
we're all capable of 3


Some of the results are pretty interesting, don't you think?

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

And please don't bring up the genetics argument, God-gene, homosexual-gene it's not really there unless some scientist says there is. It's just a way for people to explain things they don't understand so they can tolerate it, they can't do that with something which they don't understand.

Lots of things have been known to be fact to scientists before they were able to prove why.

So your lame excuse - - because religion doesn't accept it - - doesn't hold up.

i've got some opinions against homosexuality, and against some the the rights they want. should that mean i cant be friends with them?

Well put. Just because we don't agree with EVERY belief of others, doesn't mean we can't be friends. I also see the OP's point, in that you should want equal rights for your friends, but it shouldn't be a REQUIREMENT for friendship. I have a JW friend who is convinced I'm going to Hell, but I still consider the person to be my friend, and I'd be there for him regardless.

Originally posted by Gseven
Some of the results are pretty interesting, don't you think?

No - - I don't think it is interesting at all.

Once again - - its all about YOU.

Sooo... all arguments apart, what's wrong if people are born or "chose" or whatever to be gay? It might be fun... haven't tried it yet, but why not... the Greek philosophers were fond of it... so it might be cool.

There are much more disturbing issues to discuss in the world and more interesting things to discover than condemning a group of people solely because of their sexual orientation. Let them # whoever they want! (as far as it's "consensual") If it is chemical, genetical, psychological, out of fashion, all things combines, really doesn't matter... it shouldn't be condemned as a choice/state of being, just because it is less common than heterosexuality. Where is logic in prohibiting and hating it and cutting their rights because of that?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Gseven
Some of the results are pretty interesting, don't you think?

No - - I don't think it is interesting at all.

Once again - - its all about YOU.

Excuse me? 3/4 of that post included hours of work I spent on analyzing 3 other poster's words, to include yours. Or do you just don't like what your own words reveal about yourself?

Originally posted by Gseven

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Gseven
Some of the results are pretty interesting, don't you think?

No - - I don't think it is interesting at all.

Once again - - its all about YOU.

Excuse me? 3/4 of that post included hours of work I spent on analyzing 3 other poster's words, to include yours. Or do you just don't like what your own words reveal about yourself?

What you are doing is a control tactic. Doesn't matter how long it took you to come up with that.

All your previous posts have been repeated ideological rhetoric.

You have no real personal knowledge of gays or what it is to be gay.

----------------------------------------

There are times/places/reasons for statistical reports. I see no valid reason for one in a human factor discussion on "can you be a true friend of a gay person - if you do not fully accept them as gay".

What I do see is you saying: "Look at me" - - "I'm smart" - - "I'm intelligent" - - "what I have to say is important and valid".

Some one else may have a different take on it - - - but that's mine.

Originally posted by Annee
What you are doing is a control tactic. Doesn't matter how long it took you to come up with that.

All your previous posts have been repeated ideological rhetoric.

You have no real personal knowledge of gays or what it is to be gay.

Control tactic?? Are you sure you're talking to me, or is this how you reason with evidence you can't refute? Oh wait....it is....you discredit everything, no matter how lamely your try to do it, if it doesn't fit into your view.

Secondly, you've made a very wild assumption of my associations, in which I've not fully revealed on here. I've never defended a lot of your asinine assumptions, because frankly, it wasn't worth the time. Analyzing your words, however, was...they're yours, go ahead, take a look. You assumed far too much about me based on your skewed interpretation of things I wrote, and I never cared to waste the time to correct you. The fact is, you DON'T know what my associations or my experiences with them are. I have many gay friends...period. We talk, we hang out, we laugh, we joke around, we confide.....we are friends. Whether you believe that or not, I really don't care. Get off your high horse and quit pretending like you are the gay voice of reason and resident expert. You are nothing more than an hindrance to their cause.

I am allowed to have a concern and a differing opinion of what homosexuality comes from. MY civil rights dictate that I have the freedom to worship God any way I choose, and I choose to do it according to the Bible. Not you, or anyone else, has the right to tell me I'm wrong for that. It doesn't affect my tolerance for their lifestyles at all, and frankly, I could care less....if they all acted like you, then absolutely, we'd likely not be friends. But thank God, they don't. They don't have a need to preach to me about their gayness, and I certainly don't preach to them. Our friendship goes far above and beyond everything you get so wrapped up about. You do NOT speak for all gays, obviously. For Pete's sake, you're NOT gay. Look in a mirror, missy, before you go accusing others of things.

reply to post by adifferentbreed

However forcing the gay agenda upon everyone is not their right.

I've been gay for over 40 years but I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Seriously. What is this agenda that I have supposedly subscribed to or contributed to that I know nothing about?

The only thing I have ever hoped for is very personal - to be able to live my life true to myself and not have people attack me or discriminate against me for it; especially since my sexual preference has nothing to do with them and does not affect them in any way. I have never, ever had an ajenda towards anyone else to change anything about themselves or their lives except not to interfere with me. I have never in all those years even once been approached by anyone to assert any kind of agenda.

Please explain exactly what you mean by agenda, because as far as I am concerned, it is not a gay thing at all; just something made up by some straights affiliated either with some church or right wing group.

reply to post by TKDRL


All I can tell you is that there are idiots in any group. Public displays of sex is as unpleasant for most gay people to watch as it is for straights. Some may go overboard to try and prove a point, but in my opinion they are just attention seekers.

reply to post by Gseven


Look - you obviously live in a protective bubble - strongly influenced by religious belief.

I have suggested you go out in the real world - - find some gay family groups - - get to know the people - - talk with them - - etc. Would love to hear what your thoughts are then.

When you have some personal knowledge - - then your viewpoints will have authentic substance to them.

I was immersed for several years in company where the majority of the employees were gay. I am also 64 years old and lived a lot of life. That is my personal experience.

You will not see me in any thread discussing what it is to be black. Because I have no knowledge or experience with that.

As far as religious belief - - I was raised Christian - - I left. I have ZERO interest in hearing another person "speak from the bible" in regards to homosexuals. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by Annee


You know what....I don't desire to engage this anymore with you. I took a look at your profile, and it's clear you're just a really angry and bitter woman. Not sure why you're so angry, and not sure why the word analyzing set you off so bad, but I wish you well. Really, I do. You interpreted my post to be something entirely different that what I was trying to point....which was a peek into your subconscious. Your subconscious has nothing to do with me, and how you could have managed to think it was all about how "smart" I am, is beyond me. I posted my own results to show that your assumptions of me were incorrect. I see this is a lost cause.

reply to post by wayno


Yes that was my point all along! There are some gay people that seem to like trying to shock and disgust people, they have no respect for other people's boundaries at all. And there are straight people like that as well. People that act like this do not do their people any favors at all. Some people, this obnoxious group is all they have had any contact with(or at least that they know), and they think that all gay people must be like that. They might even have a few respectful gay friends, that keeps what goes on in the bedroom in their bedroom, and not even know it.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Your rant on vegetarianism is getting stale really fast. People decide whether or not to become vegatarian based on information they have collected in the world, mulled over, and then came to a conclusion about. They then begin acting accordingly - not eating meat.

They were not born that way. They d e c i d e d to join that group and to live their lives that way.

Because you are only talking about decisions made by vegetarians about behaviour this discussion has nothing to do with this thread which is about people who are a certain way from the time of birth.

Anything arrived by thinking and decision making is arguable, stuff that just is is not something you can argue about.

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by Gseven

 

Look - you obviously live in a protective bubble - strongly influenced by religious belief.

I have suggested you go out in the real world - - find some gay family groups - - get to know the people - - talk with them - - etc. Would love to hear what your thoughts are then.

When you have some personal knowledge - - then your viewpoints will have authentic substance to them.

I was immersed for several years in company where the majority of the employees were gay. I am also 64 years old and lived a lot of life. That is my personal experience.

You will not see me in any thread discussing what it is to be black. Because I have no knowledge or experience with that.

As far as religious belief - - I was raised Christian - - I left. I have ZERO interest in hearing another person "speak from the bible" in regards to homosexuals. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, more assumptions. You know nothing of my life. I am spiritual, yes, non-denominational, with an infinity for all religious wisdom. Sue me.

Get out into into the real world? Seriously? What world do you think I'm living in, lady? I'm a Marine Veteran - lived in over half the states in the U.S., over seas and back...exactly what part of this real world am I not "getting" that you are privy to?

Personal knowledge? What the hell do you think I've been trying to share this whole time? It certainly isn't someone else's personal knowledge. Are you actually reading what you write?! Just because you don't want to believe my "personal knowledge" and experience, does not mean I have no personal substance to offer.

OK, so you worked with gays....good for you. So have I.....many times. In fact, that's where I made most of my friends. You keep mentioning your age....so what? I'm a grandparent as well, what's your point? You've insinuated many times that I couldn't possibly have lived a long life based on my views.

Last, just because people quote or read the Bible does NOT make them a westernized Christian. Let's get that straight, OK? For all you know I could be Jewish, or study Kabbalah, or any other number of alternative systems that wouldn't make me a western Christian. So a 64 year old mad woman is sick of something, now I must tiptoe around ATS, not daring to mention God or biblical scriptures because she knows "all" about every gay that walks the earth? Wrong. You don't know my friends. Furthermore, you don't know me.