Israeli - Palestinian conflict by the numbers (The numbers don't lie)

reply to post by airspoon


Ghandi defeated the Brits by being smart, the Irish likewise.
I think it is clear the Palestinians have been wronged not only by the Israelis but by the USA and the UK, but labelling the whole world as controlled by pro Zionist is a tad extreme?
Believe it or not ,most people dont believe a word any press says on world political matters, but the fact is most people dont care either way they just go with the flow.
Those who do care know about many things that the popular press try and hide and manipulate.
But the reality is people are more comfortable with a strong Israel than a strong Arab world.
Why? the shouting screaming islamists shooting off guns in Palestine ,that is shown on TV s around th eworld the ones shouting death to the USA ect.
Arabs are sometimes their own worst enemies,they may be earnest, but the powerful in this world are shrewd are they not?
The Brits, the USA, ,USSR ,CHINA Israel, Germany all shrewd.
The arabs are earnest and that Iam afraid for them is their downfall.

reply to post by airspoon


Great work Airspoon. People will really only believe what their governments tell them.

In 2008, up to 27th Dec., the home-made rockets that Hamas fired into Israel killed no-one. In return the Israelis killed 400 children and 900 adults in Gaza. After the Israeli attacks Hamas rockets killed 3 Israeli civilians. The Israelis shelled clearly designated UN schools sheltering civilians and used white phosphorus against civilians, both of these actions are war crimes. USA supplied, free, the aircraft, helicopter gunships, missiles, bombs and bullets for these attacks and will block any international condemnation of Israel in UN.

Ariel Sharon oversaw the slaughter of over 800 Palestinian civilians, mostly women & children, in the Sabra and Chatilla refugee camps in South Beirut in 1982. White phosphorus bombs used by Israeli forces in the Gaza Strip were produced and supplied by American arms manufacturers, destroying civilian shelter, schools and using civilians as human shields? Oh wait i should support Isreal since they seem to have the U.S behind them???

Israel war crimes

Originally posted by benoni
hey collector...

What rubbish!!

Who did you support during the conflict in South Africa between black and white??

The big, military might of the SADF or the rock-throwing protestors, oppressed for decades by brutality, routine torture and murder??

I ask because your justification of "its us or them..."sounds frighteningly like the propaganda spewed by White Rule types during the 80's....


....which the world agrees(generally) was not cool.

How can this be applied to what i said ? Where did EXACTLY i took israeli
side on my post?
Anyway, the blacks in SA didn't wanted to KILL all the whites or throw
them into Atlantic or Indian ocean, they didn't wanted a NEW country
named South BLACK Africa (or whatever name).They fought and WON
because what they wanted was FAIR ( same goes for palestinians), and the
goals they achieved were not driven by hate against the other side ( unlike
palestinians ).
What Palestinians want (and i repet, is not peace, or at best peace on
their terms) will not be achieved without a clear victory.Same goes for
Israel.

I only pointed a cruel truth : peace between Israel and Palestinians will
not be achieved by diplomacy, but only after one of the sides will impose
their terms over the other, and this won't be made politely, but after a
bloody war.

Israel is there to stay.They have an army, they have nukes.Palestinians
are also there to stay.Both sides prefer the other side just go away, for
each of them diplomacy means weakness.Both sides consider that they
are right, and the other is wrong.

This takes for far to long, to much blood have been spiled, to many
scars...and, sadly for BOTH of them, this ''peace'' will be settled by
power of the arms and not power of the words.

I just find amazing that even today, these people killing in the name of God exists


I feel sorry for this type of people ... well, at least they can sleep at night to justify their mental diseases (psychopaths)

doesnt matter which side you support, it is just wrong

plus - the population supports these events, if they didnt, it wouldnt happen, so I guess they kind of "deserve it" for God not making them with a higher IQ ...

I would go even further, for me, everyone, that supports these kind of religion that are common used to justify war, are as responsible for the deaths as the ones doing it, for the simple fact that, well, if you have a high IQ you will notice that religion is an instrument of control ... not an instrument to find "heaven" or 1001 women

and just because we dont know whats out there, doesnt mean we shouldnt think about it, but we need to BE RESPONSIBLE and just not support these religion: everyone have a freaking brain, your guess is just as good as any other religion out there ... START using it

just to make even more clear, you dont need to follow a religion to believe in some kind of God or to find peace to keep living, you have a brain, you have the capability of imagining things just like whats on the bible and other books

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Faiol]

I cant seem to be able to upload pictures to ATS , but take a look at this map. It shows palestinian land loss from 1946 to present days

www.stopdebezetting.com...

reply to post by airspoon


Airspoon, I applaud you for doing this thread, and your other work lately about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

I think you said you are of Jewish descent yourself, so kudos for staying objective and pursuing the truth.





[edit on 10-6-2010 by Point of No Return]

this is what gets me (and forgive me if it's been posted, already)

68 women gave birth on checkpoints, 34 infants and 4 women died

that is fully one-half!!

one-half!!

poor, poor mama's, losing their babies like that.
all that time waiting in anticipation, hoping, dreaming...
only to end like that!!!!

SENSELESS
WASTE
TRUE
TRAGEDY

reply to post by airspoon


This has to be one of the best threads I have read for quite some time...Well done

The information you have presented is what is need to get people to wake up. all the information on hand in one thread.

I just hope people will share the link to this on their facebook or twitter accounts.

thanks

Ocker

I love how once something particularly a statistic is in numerical form all of a sudden it MUST be true because apparently numbers are incapable of being inaccurate.. not saying those numbers ARE wrong, just saying "the numbers don't lie" is hogwash in my opinion. Also, when there is a war, chances are the side that wins will have killed the most people, just because Israel is killing more people with their bombs does not mean that they target children etc. Innocent deaths is a very sad side effect from the war game..

Yes fantastic work Airspoon.

$7m a day in military aid from the USA says to me we need to give america a taste of sanctions like it uses against Cuba and Iran so don't buy windows, ipod or pay for films and lets see if between us all we can cost them that $7m a day in aid.

Looks to me like the american military conplex is trying to provoke attacks but like last time, if one dones not come they will pull off another 9/11 so they get more money from american tax payers whilst jobs are being lost left, right and center.

Do amicans not care if they are being controlled by zionists because that puts them in the same leage as nazi's and the world will continue to turn against them.

OP good work.I wish i could flag the thread more than once.


And for all those who support Israel and say that all the children died are just junior terrorists check this article on Sky news.

news.sky.com...

...Because it is well known that the Palestinian children can throw rockets from the womb...

Edit:The link is not working so i'm writing the headline so if anyone is interested can check it out.

"Israeli Army T-Shirts Mock Gaza Killings"



[edit on 10-6-2010 by Phantom traveller]

Originally posted by Dynamitrios
I cant seem to be able to upload pictures to ATS , but take a look at this map. It shows palestinian land loss from 1946 to present days

www.stopdebezetting.com...

in fairness some land was lost in the 6 day war and we took some land from Germany after WWII as payment but unlike iserail they are realy continuing the war and are taking land on a regular bases and try to intemindate the gaza's off the land.

Question is was it our land to give away and why give prime religious land like that away and if their realy was this guy called Jesus then i think he would be happy to see these people cast off the land for the way they are acting.

Jesus i'm told didn't like bankers and the whole worlds banking system is controlled by the zionists and they are ripping people off worldwide so these people need not come looking to me for help.

reply to post by LieBuster


It looks to me, that palestinians and Jews lived happily together before "Israel" (the state) was formed, after that, palestinians were slowly decimated or put into Ghettos (as the map i posted shows).

reply to post by Eliad


Thank you for your post. You intimate that this is about Evil? or Judaism vs Islam?

I Actually believe that this is about something (I hope that, as a religious person you will agree) more precious than that. Life.

Why is it that all holy books, while promoting peace and the love of god, are actually covered in the blood of their chosen enemies? Why can't people, of supposed religious enlightenment, realise their differences, grow above them (as surely any god would see as being a great thing to do), and ultimately not kill these children.

The power of fear may be a great tool, but surely the power of lending a hand to your fellow human, granting them a chance in life, allowing them the opportunities that this god-given world should present us...surely that is the greater tool?

If I, as an "agnostic", can see this, why can't your people? Why can't anybody step in and offer the peaceful, blood-free solution that we, not TPTB, want.

To the OP: Great post. If those numbers represented opposite sides, I know my own response would be the same. To completely deplore these actions, especially in the name of a creator. Destruction in the name of the creator? The mere sound of it is completely insane.

To Airspoon:

I would very much like to hear you elaborate on your quote below; especially being you are Jewish and have German relatives who were directly affected.

"I compare Israel to Nazi Germany and I feel it is justified. I happen to be Jewish with my ancestors coming to America from Germany. In my opinion, there is no difference. In fact, I would even venture to say that the Germans were far more justified in their thinking (not their actions), than Israel. If you study why the Nazi party came to power and why the German people were anti-Jew (not anti-semitic), you would get a much different answer than you were probably taught. Of course I'm nto saying that the Nazis were justified, only that I can understand what lead to their feelings and I can see how they would look to a political party such as the Nazis. I'm not justifying what they did, only what they thought (the people)."

To Eliad:
Why not start a thread from your prospective being you live in
Israel?

reply to post by airspoon


i tried axplaining to someone that Israel is in the wrong. they wouldnt buy it. He said, "well Israel is defending themselves."

I said I don't get how they think they can get away with this.

its like me wearing a shirt that says, "If you look at me wrong I'ma shoot you." Doesn't mean I have the right to shoot you when you look at me wrong.

And you are relying on Left leaning, pro-Palestinian sources so of course you figures will make the Israelis look bad, same technique was used against the US during the Viet Nam war and the Gulf Wars.

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
The most fascinating thing for me concerning all of this is my faith and the Bible. Now, I could care less what any of you believe as it ultimately is inconsequential to me but the Bible has the -entire- history of Israel mapped out beginning to end and the current state of this written history? Israel is not going anywhere, anymore.

Sorry to be picky, but this has been a bit of a pet peeve for me on here recently. Did you mean "couldn't care less"? Or is it meant to be another blatant contradiction...

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
No offense taken.. Your perception of me means very little.

Also, don't put words in my mouth-I have no intentions of looking the other way and quite frankly I'm offended that you would insinuate that I would do that.

You may be offended (or not?), but it does appear that way, whether you meant it or not, from your posts. For many, it doesn't seem right to simply accept that atrocities should take place just because an old book says so.

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
With that in mind and according to the Bible, the land in question does NOT belong to the Palestinians and has NEVER belonged to the Palestinians and guess what: The Palestinians will NEVER get it! (And neither will anyone else).

That book again. Did it ever occur to you that people in power might choose to use old tales to suit their own agenda? That maybe people are choosing to fulfill the stories written and edited by people for their own advantage? It's worth a shot if people will accept it.

Anyone can take information from a book and use it to their own advantage. Even in this day, we could have a modern day Joseph Smith come along with a new book (dum dum dum dum dum ) promoting something as fact, for their own purpose. Who's to say that their book is the right one? The one's with the bigger budget or the stronger army?

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
Also, I get your point about other religions saying what I am but the main difference between me and all the others is this: Israel is still in her land and that's a fact.

Well their are many people who would argue your definition of "fact", but you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not sure whether you are reffering to the land, or the people who now live there, or just some woman you know who lives on her own land. Is this really what seperates you from the other religions?

I personally can't imagine a "god" planning wars in advance, putting innocent people through misery and pain, and simply to teach others a lesson, while promoting apartheid. But that's just my opinion.

Beautiful Post OP S&F for you...

I just want to say that ATS keep letting this Anti-semitic threads be posted...This a thread that only Jews haters are writing on...this is pure RACISM!!!!!
lololololol...
ho my god...i really have a kick with some users talking things like that...

This is a great thread and the numbers don't lie...yet i have to say...why this kinds of thread about Israel still??? don't everybody knows already what is Israel is up to this last 60 years??? the majority of my friends and the people i know don't even talk about this...it's so simple...we've seen it all before...people killing other people...transgression...Israel IS COMMITTING GENOCIDE!!!! everybody knows this...HOW CAN STILL TODAY EXIST PEOPLE THAT KILL IN THE NAME OF GOD??? WAKEEEEEEEEEEEEEE UUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPP...Im fetting tired of this...please...stop already...
The numbers don't lie...and Israel will soon or later be judge by their actions... ..

FREE PALESTINA
FREE PALESTINA
FREE PALESTINA

Let me tell you whatt would happen if this role was reversed!! we would have yanks crawling down ouur necks trying to defend freedom, and the oppressed people of ??????? Why dont we get the mighty force that is the US of A defending us when we are dying in droves!!!!!!!!!!!!