God fullfilled His promise to the jewish people, israel exists. i think they're a little ticked off at God because it was not what they expected. instead of being grateful that after much suffering, including killing Gods Son, that they have a nation, they are taking it out on an innocent and good people that through no fault of their own live on land that the israelis want. this war is all about land, plain and simple. how do you solve land disputes, through impartial mediation. just like canada and the us have done on alaskan border disputes.

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
God owns the world and all the universe and he gives it to whom he pleases to, and who he gives ot to has the right to be there.

Which God do we listen to, yours or mine?

God giving out land rights..... you here and you there..... why didn't God just create fences instead of Trees, turn the World into a Zoo.

To suggest an almighty creator feels the need to divide is beyond absurd.
Not only did God create us in his image, we seem to share the same I.Q as well.

Very good job by the OP, ATS needs this kind of thread. Facts only, let people make their own mind. We can't deny numbers.

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
God gave israel that land and told them to run off the inhabitants thousands of years ago and they didnt completely obey. God owns the world and all the universe and he gives it to whom he pleases to, and who he gives ot to has the right to be there.

God gave no land to no one, that's all politics since day one to divide and conquer.

God's name was used by that time just like flags, concepts of freedom and liberty are used nowadays.

Anyways... my God doesn't care about ownership, certainly isn't on the housing business and has more important things to do than doing silly promises to a few.

Of coarse numbers do not lie they can not talk.

But how many of these children were kill as a result of the Palestine radicals themselves.

And anyone can make a graph.

I think he means the numbers show the reality on the ground....obviously they cannot speak....


....which shows that israel(lowercase..), and america by association, has no heart or soul....


For anyone to believe that they are superior to another , as the israelis do, is to show how radicalised it has become...


....and having the support of 50 million christian conservatives in the US is hardly helpful....

SHAME ON iSRAEL...and its people, for their silence.

Just by looking at the numbers I have one piece of advice: don't mess with Israel. It's simple. Do you know what happened the last time someone tried to hijack an Israeli plane? They took the hijackers and their families inboard the plane. They took their equivalent to CNN and killed all of them on live T.V. to prove a point. Would you try to rob the mafia? Would you slap a cop? Would you light yourself on fire? Then don't mess with them. It is retalliation. It's just not a 1:1 ratio. That's because they aren't throwing rocks, they are throwing death.

Double post.
Sorry!

[edit on 10-6-2010 by NEWclearMind]

This is a great thread and I applaud the OP for doing the research, gathering the data and links and formatting it in such a friendly manner.

I also applaud that this thread was able to go almost a whole 2 pages before the derailment-attempts appeared.

The first - "surrounded by terrorists blah blah" got shut up pretty quickly (although I'm a bit upset that nobody mentioned the "rockets being fired into Israel")

The second - "I'm a Christian and I support Israel because some invisible sky wizard told some old folks to write books" argument got handled in great posture and efficiency by the OP. Again - kudos to that.

My only wish on these numbers would be for a more condensed version that could easily be distributed yet having as much of an impact. 3 pages (well - forum posts anyway) of information is alot for the common American-Idol/Dancing with washedupStars type of folks to ingest.

(P.S. - Don't take any slanderous comments made by me as a personal attack on your beliefs or views. I hate everyone equally)

Numbers, numbers, numbers...

Did anyone REALLY expected this to be different when you have a rock-
throwing mob on one side and a regular army on the other?
Did anyone REALLY expected a soldier not to shot (and shot to kill OFC,
because he is a SOLDIER not a policeman) if he beleive his life is at stake
OR just follwing an order?
Did anyone REALLY beleive that a bullet stops in first body its hits and not
go thru 2-3 more ?
Did anyone REALLY expected that israeli army will just NOT bomb a
building where are hidden terrorist only because there are civilians inside
also?

WAKE UP people, its a WAR there ! Its not a damn protest in a western
city where cops are actually got beaten by a mob of protesters.

Numbers don't lie, i agree, and i also agree that those numbers even might
be higher on palestinian side.
17 years old palestinians killed by israeli soldiers, like those youngsters
were just passing thru and got shoted.Please.They are indoctrinated since
5 years old to KILL jews.They can throw a rock when they 12.And they
got killed before they 18 because Israel use the ARMY against them.

I beleive that for most of you its apocaliptic that Israel uses the army and
not the police.But most of you also don't grasp that Israel cannot use
the police because there is, was and will be war.
An intifada is not a mob of soccer fans that smash some windows, got
beaten by the police and go home, forgetting all deal one hour later.
Its about ''young'' palestinians throwing molotovs and blowing themselves
up in israeli buses and pubs.Its about ''HAMAS freedom fighters'' that
hide bethween women and children.
Its about israeli soldiers ARMED to the teeth, buldozers and armored
vehicles that shot live amunition.

Wake up from your dream that peace can be achieved between israelis
and palestinians without a BLOODY war with a clear winner.
Both israeli and palestininas don't want peace.In fact, both sides want
peace, but on THEIR terms.Palestininas want peace by exterminating the
israelis and israelis want peace by exterminating the palestinians.Or at
least one side just go somwhere else (israelis in Arizona, or just drown in
the sea, and palestininas in Jordan, or w/e).

In many threads about this endless Israel-Arab conflict some sugested
to arm the Palestinians as a way to achieve some kind of truce or even
peace...yeah, right.This only will fasten the inevitable.

Its either them or us.This is what leads both sides.And the fact that Israel
lost 100 times less, or 1000 times less than the palestininas doesn't mean
that Israel is the bad guy.
It only means that they are better armed, better organized and better
protected.
Swap the equation and give israelis only stones, sticks and crappy rockets
and give palestinias tanks and automatic rifles and nobody will post any
numbers because if some higher power might do this swap, Israel will
just be name in a history book in a sentence like this :
''Once upon a time here lived some peple called Israelis, but they were
nonbeleivers so we had to kill them, because the Kuran teach us to do
it.''

Don't even think about that Palestinians (if armed like Israel now) won't
do the same...they will probably would do it far far worse.

I haven't looked at this Israeli Palestinian, conflict much but wow talk about stupid # that people due for silly ideologies. This # is getting old that land was fought over for so long, that it just becomes ridiculous. The Jews need to get there things in order, and quit letting these crazy hardcore religious Christian nuts putting them in these situations. So some prophesies and profits can come to fruition to bring a messiah back according to a book that some dudes wrote. I thought better of the jews then this if you want that land there are better ways to get it like buying it at a discount. But then again who would be stupid enough to want to life there that place ain't so great if you give some Palestinian money for it they will take it and move to California, no more crappy hot sandy desert weather, some nice beaches and fields and lots of trees, and no more getting blown up for some retarded cause. If that is the promised land, you got the short end of the deal on that land. Never trust desert spirits, or people that say they talk to god, they might not be all there in the head.

hey collector...

What rubbish!!

Who did you support during the conflict in South Africa between black and white??

The big, military might of the SADF or the rock-throwing protestors, oppressed for decades by brutality, routine torture and murder??

I ask because your justification of "its us or them..."sounds frighteningly like the propaganda spewed by White Rule types during the 80's....


....which the world agrees(generally) was not cool.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
Palestine, the people who live in it, have no army.

Isreal does, to defend what the have stolen from Palestinian people.

'Nough said.

Can't blaim people for throwing rocks, suicide belts, when they are surpresed from being a nation or their own.

Palestine has no army, but Isreal does. Go figure!

This is not a religious issue, it is what is is.

Isreal, emulates the Hitler regime, more, every day.

This is perhaps the most childish argument I have read!

Israel has an army while Palestine doesn't ?? That proves Israel has stolen land ?
Yeah, I can figure that you know absolutely nothing about Palestine or Israel.

FYI, ALL of this present day so called "Palestine" was taken by Israel during the 1967 war when the Palestinians and the Arabs colluded together to "Drive the Jews into the sea" and failed miserably. Since that day, according to all rules of war, it is Israeli property. It is the Palestinians who are the "squatters" and despite their alleged and advertised "poverty" have miraculously multiplied their numbers exponentially through the years. All this despite using their children as suicide bombers, using civilians as shields for terrorists and carrying out 2 Intifadas against the people of Israel.

Maybe you can tell Hamas, Al Aqsa and the Fateh that the Palestinians need no army as you say. In a way it is true, an army is a commissioned body appointed by the government of a legitimate state that acts according to the rules of war and can be held accountable. The Palestinians have no such thing. They have terrorist organizations to fill that role.

iaf...

Suppose you believe in the End Times too???

I think you need to go do a bit more homework before you write such drivel again...

jeez...

The Anglo/Irish conflict is very similar in broad terms to the Israel/Palestine war.
The obvious difference is that the Israelis felt a historical right to the nation formerly called Palestine?
Whereas Britain saw Ireland as a security risk ie they formed ties with the French military and Britain was about to be invaded from Ireland and France simultaneously , if Irelands alliance to the French grew.
Of course Irish resouces were a bonus....wink wink.
The point is many more Irish died than British, and the brits filled Ireland up with their own kind, taking more and more farmland and resources.
The reality is Israel exists as does Northern Ireland.
Many Irish left Ireland, as many Palestinians have left Palestine.
But is Britain the most evil of nations?
Is Israel the most evil of nations?
They both do what they need to do to survive.... well.
The fate of the Palestinians in many cases is terrible and unjust, just as the fate of many Irish was.
But the Irish have survived, and that is what the Palestinians need to do?
They need perhaps to turn 180 degrees and through 100% peaceful means gain world support.
Israel and Palestine could live in harmony, but it is never on Earth going to be one nation again?
The deed is done, the millons of Palestinian women men and children need to be resettled in peaceful nations,not left rotting for political gain?
We dont want ww3 do we?
Turkey , iran these are dangerous nations who are allied to the USSR and china?
Israel need world support or else we will all be living in interesting times.