Israeli - Palestinian conflict by the numbers (The numbers don't lie), page 3

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reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 08:58 PM by lestweforget

reply to post by airspoon

It totally amazes me that so many people have such strong veiws on this particular matter when they obviously know so little and that includes you Airspoon. You can do all the research and numbers you like and still it will not help your cause. Try concentrating on first hand accounts particularly christians in Palestine. You wont get any accuracies from the Palestinian muslims as they have been indoctrinated in hate from as early as 4 and 5 years of age. Maybe even consider the testimony of someone whose experienced both sides of the fence such as Walid Shoebat.

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 09:10 PM by airspoon

reply to post by lestweforget

Maybe it's you that obviously knows so little. Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions. Not only am I Jewish with family in Israel, but I also spent time in that region as a member of MFO in the US Army. I have worked with the IDF in my many years in the army.

Having said that, why on Earth would I take the word of a Christian over a Muslim or even a Jew? I don't take anyone's "word" as fact so I'm sure not going to start. Maybe that's your problem?

--airspoon

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 09:27 PM by pacific_waters

reply to post by airspoon

so would you feel better if the numbers were reversed?

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 09:34 PM by Caveat Lector

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

When Israel attacks these known terrorist cells, innocent civilians are injured or killed. All the while, Israel is NOT targeting civilians - The civilians were unfortunately caught in the cross fire.

When you unleash heavy morters and artillery in high density population areas, you ARE targetting civilians.

Strange how the times they do single people out - [by infarred helicopter gunships linked by triangulated rader that locks the rudimentary rockets firiring position] - it's for the darn rockets in first place.

[edit on 9/6/10 by Caveat Lector]

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 09:35 PM by ViewFromTheStars

Interesting numbers and thought provoking.

Still does not change my support for Israel however.

Now, just because I am a Christian supporter of Israel in general does NOT mean that I support all their actions. I abhor the fact that many innocent people and children have died and will continue to do so but that's what happens in a war.

The most fascinating thing for me concerning all of this is my faith and the Bible. Now, I could care less what any of you believe as it ultimately is inconsequential to me but the Bible has the -entire- history of Israel mapped out beginning to end and the current state of this written history? Israel is not going anywhere, anymore.

With that in mind and according to the Bible, the land in question does NOT belong to the Palestinians and has NEVER belonged to the Palestinians and guess what: The Palestinians will NEVER get it! (And neither will anyone else).

This really boils down to what everyone believes.. isn't that amazing?

The only real difference between you and I is what we believe.. astounding.

Believe it or not.. some part of me hopes that I'm wrong about the Bible and what it says about Israel.. mostly because of what's going to happen to all the people who stand against her.. especially in this day and age and point in Israel's history.

For anyone who would like to brush up on Biblical knowledge and Israels history can start here:

Does the Land of Israel Belong to the Jewish People?

The saddest thing about all this is it is not going to stop until certain people stop trying to take land that belongs to Israel and stop attacking her. Of course, any self respecting Christian knows this is not going to happen until our Creator comes back.

Again, believe what you will but one thing is for sure.. we sure have some very interesting times ahead.. mark my words. Just make sure you're on the right side of the coin.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by ViewFromTheStars]

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 09:46 PM by buddhasystem

I applaud the OP, airspoon, and find his background impeccable, in the position to pass judgment on the matters discussed.

I respect Eliad as an IDF soldier from the region. I'm at odds with Israeli policies nevertheless.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by buddhasystem]

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 09:46 PM by airspoon

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

No offense but that makes you sound like an extremist or fundamentalist, just as the so-called Islamic "terrorists". So, because of your religion, you are willing to look the other way when innocent people are being slaughtered on a massive scale? Isn't that what the members of Al Qaeda supposedly think? Why not just go strap a bomb to your chest and do it yourself? I'm not a Christian and I'm not religious either but I can't imagine god, Jesus, yahweh or allah approving of this. This just may be the problem with religion, or how people perceive religion.

--airspoon

Edited to add: If I could imagine Bin Laden (or your favorite terrorist) posting, your post is what I would imagine him saying, only speaking about Islam, not Christianity.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by airspoon]

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 09:57 PM by thedeadtruth

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by airspoon

"One thing that Israel does is something we all witnessed as kids in school. There was always that tough little guy that when anyone twice their size slugged them in the shoulder or punched them in the stomach, that little guy caused them two or three times the pain that was inflicted on them. Once that was done, the bully found someone else to pick on or at least thought twice before smacking the little guy again."

I agree with you on the school yard theme, but I have a better analogy for you...

The smallest , weakest and most cowardly ( but quite often bright ) kid gets made class monitor. And turns into a power mad maniac.

Until teacher comes back.

I pray for Israel's sake there is no God.

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:10 PM by ViewFromTheStars

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

No offense but that makes you sound like an extremist or fundamentalist, just as the so-called Islamic "terrorists". So, because of your religion, you are willing to look the other way when innocent people are being slaughtered on a massive scale? Isn't that what the members of Al Qaeda supposedly think? Why not just go strap a bomb to your chest and do it yourself? I'm not a Christian and I'm not religious either but I can't imagine god, Jesus, yahweh or allah approving of this. This just may be the problem with religion, or how people perceive religion.

--airspoon

Edited to add: If I could imagine Bin Laden (or your favorite terrorist) posting, your post is what I would imagine him saying, only speaking about Islam, not Christianity.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by airspoon]

No offense taken.. Your perception of me means very little.

Also, don't put words in my mouth-I have no intentions of looking the other way and quite frankly I'm offended that you would insinuate that I would do that.

What about all the innocent people WE (and when I say we, I mean our government) have killed in our 'war efforts' in the middle east?

Also, I get your point about other religions saying what I am but the main difference between me and all the others is this: Israel is still in her land and that's a fact.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by ViewFromTheStars]

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:18 PM by Keeper of Kheb

what if you bought a house moved in and criminals came and dragged you off into captivity, you finally gain freedom and move back to your home only to find someone else is living there sitting in your living room and sleeping on your bed. you would ask tjem to leave and of they didnt you would remove them by force. israel has tried to work with the palestinians and quite frankly they should have run them off long ago, their real home is jordan but jordan wont even take them. fact is thst part of the world hates the fact that there is a jewish state among muslim states and far worse allied with western christians, nukes and technology. to them they are infidels and would like nothing more than to wipe them off the face of the map as quoted ahmidinejad. fact is, God gave israel that land and told them to run off the inhabitants thousands of years ago and they didnt completely obey. God owns the world and all the universe and he gives it to whom he pleases to, and who he gives ot to has the right to be there.

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:19 PM by thedeadtruth

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

" This really boils down to what everyone believes.. isn't that amazing?"

Incorrect. For some people its about right and wrong. A sense of justice that was not preached to us, or taught out of a book, but is part of our hearts.

Remember......

The word of God is written on the human heart, NOT by the hand of man.

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:21 PM by ViewFromTheStars

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
what if you bought a house moved in and criminals came and dragged you off into captivity, you finally gain freedom and move back to your home only to find someone else is living there sitting in your living room and sleeping on your bed. you would ask tjem to leave and of they didnt you would remove them by force. israel has tried to work with the palestinians and quite frankly they should have run them off long ago, their real home is jordan but jordan wont even take them. fact is thst part of the world hates the fact that there is a jewish state among muslim states and far worse allied with western christians, nukes and technology. to them they are infidels and would like nothing more than to wipe them off the face of the map as quoted ahmidinejad. fact is, God gave israel that land and told them to run off the inhabitants thousands of years ago and they didnt completely obey. God owns the world and all the universe and he gives it to whom he pleases to, and who he gives ot to has the right to be there.

What if God showed up and said: "I'm taking this land and giving it to someone else"

What would you do?

Do you see where I'm going with this? This is WAY deeper than just an issue rationalized by man.. you simply can't take God out of the equation on this one.

I'm sure the Canaanites that originally inhabited the land that Israel was given was a little teed off when all those Jews just showed up and just kicked them out.. (at God's bidding, and it was not pretty, I assure you).

None of this made sense to me either until I almost died in a car accident back in 07. I just wish God had revealed Himself to me earlier and a little differently.

It's all good though.. I wish I could share this conviction with all of you but ultimately that's between you and God.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by ViewFromTheStars]

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:26 PM by benoni

The contradictions of some on here.....!!

Theres no war in Gaza...civilians being slaughtered in their thousands is murder, no matter how much spin you put on it.....

Nice thread airspoon...appreciate your eforts and time spent on this......

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:29 PM by ViewFromTheStars

Originally posted by benoni
The contradictions of some on here.....!!

Theres no war in Gaza...civilians being slaughtered in their thousands is murder, no matter how much spin you put on it.....

Nice thread airspoon...appreciate your eforts and time spent on this......

In that context why don't we start a thread concerning all the innocent woman and children that have been killed by American forces in the war on terror..???

Nice thread indeed.

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:34 PM by habfan1968

war. Hamas vs. Israel.
Started a long time ago if you go back long enough, which i am not going to do.

Are the Palestinians and Israel at war? Well if you follow the logic that they have a democratically elected govt. in Hamas then you would also have to agree they are at war with Israel.

If you believe that Hamas has taken the govt. by force and they are not the legal govt. of Palestine then you cannot disagree with the Israeli stance that feeding Hamas with supplies is not really a good idea and how else to stop it?

Palestine receives a lot of aide every year, based on the numbers there is no reason for the palestinians to be in the position they are in.

At the end of the day you have to put yourself in both positions and try to understand why they do what they do.

Israel and Palestine may never settle their differences but since they are at war, the rules really are arbitrary. In war We want to kill all of you and not have any of us killed. Both sides work to the same objective.

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:42 PM by virgom129

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

In that context why don't we start a thread concerning all the innocent woman and children that have been killed by American forces in the war on terror..???

That topic has been discussed many times....

Also, according to you Israel is not doing anything wrong because another country has done worse????

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 10:50 PM by airspoon

reply to post by habfan1968

If you believe that Hamas has taken the govt. by force and they are not the legal govt. of Palestine then you cannot disagree with the Israeli stance that feeding Hamas with supplies is not really a good idea and how else to stop it?

Do you really believe that they took over the government by force, rather than being elected? Maybe you should research a little more. Also, you can't starve the innocent people because you are trying to starve Hamas. That would be like cutting off all supplies to LA because you don't want to feed gang-members. We don't want gang-members to eat so sorry LA, your going to have to die with them.

Palestine receives a lot of aide every year, based on the numbers there is no reason for the palestinians to be in the position they are in

They do? Since when? They recieve aide like Israel recieves aide? I think you may be watching a little too much CNN.

Israel and Palestine may never settle their differences but since they are at war, the rules really are arbitrary. In war We want to kill all of you and not have any of us killed. Both sides work to the same objective.

Again, your wrong. There are rules in war too. Rules like not murdering civilians and targeting civilians. In war, you do not try to kill everyone on the other side, you force the other side to come to terms or give-in by fighting their military. When you target civilians, you are committing war-crimes. Add this to the fact that according to Israel, they are not officially at war and it makes it even worse.

In fact, murdering innocent civilians is only a small percentage of the horrors experienced by the Palestinians. They are beat up, intimidated, evicted, starved, murdered, denied medical treatments, denied the use of roads, homes, arable land and basic living supplies. Simply put, they are terrorized and oppressed, similar to how the Jews were treated by the Nazis.

--airspoon

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 11:01 PM by randomname

i see another hitler rising up in america to break the stranglehold the jewish and israelis have on the most important and powerful aspects of your society like the presidency (kissinger, emanuel), the lobby groups (aipac, etc.... the list is endless) blackmailing and steering your congress and the especially the banking system, where apparently a jewish overlord (wolfowitz, greenspan) always seems to be in an important post on the federal reserve. not to mention the conference of presidents of major jewish organizations which it's sole purpose is to be a direct contact between the jewish community and the executive branch. america seems to be the only dummies in the world who give the jewish so much power in their government to the point where it threatens the very lives of its citizens. when they stick their nose in other governments and try to run things to benefit themselves they are swiftly given a kick in the butt. america needs to grow some serious balls. i can never see jewish influence trying to tell the british or the russians or the chinese on how to run things. they wouldn't stand for it.

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 11:03 PM by ABNARTY

reply to post by airspoon

Excellent work Airspoon (Airborne

). I have visited that site often and agree the numbers tell it like it is.

With regards to Eliad's post, just be advised he has been a member for all of three days. His 40 posts involve entirely the the Israeli/Palestinian issue from three or four threads. It would seem all that posting in such a short period of time would require a full time occupation devoted to nothing but putting forth an impermeable world view wherever contradiction may arise.

Perhaps intelligent and informed posts like yours might broaden his/her horizons on this particular subject. Or might not.

reply posted on 9-6-2010 @ 11:03 PM by Donkey_Dean

This is one of the most important posts I have ever seen on ATS. Thanks you very much for posting it.

Israel is the enemy of all Christendom, and the single largest danger to US children in the world today. If the seeds of war that Israel has sown do indeed sprout then it will be our children who will have to fight and die.

Those who defend Israel are bloodied all the same, and should be seen that way. Telling the truth about Israel in the US is like killing whales, so you will never see the truth in the MSM.

Maybe a door to door effort would do the trick! Those Jehovah witness guys have the right idea! No hippies, just respectable folks with the facts. Public opinion can change very quickly!

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Donkey_Dean]