12 confirmed murdered and 25 injured after Gunman runs amok in Whitehaven, Egremont and Seascale, Cu

Originally posted by richierich


I am not proposing that all Brits carry guns...it has been too long that your weapons have been gone...but if most people were armed, rampages would stop faster because the people would use force to protect each other. Guns are NOT the issue, just like hammers and knives are not an issue, it is the people who abuse a tool that are at fault.

We have (UK) one of these incidents about every 10 years or so?

You have one every year, if not more frequently.

Giving everyone guns to stop gun crime/rampages is The most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Police are saying 12 dead now... !!!

Live police press conference now on Sky news

And many more injured.



[edit on 2/6/10 by blupblup]

12 dead, 25 injured, more expected to die.

Lost for words.

I know a few people over there, hope they are ok but my most heartfelt condolences to all affected.

Originally posted by Muppetus Galacticus
~snip~
If he's already pointing the gun at you, I seriously doubt you'll have a chance to defend yourself whatever you're carrying, IMO.

Yeah you're right. Definitely no point in at least having a CHANCE to defend yourself in a situation like that. It PROBABLY wouldn't help at all. Guns are best left for the "nutters", for sure. Much better to just take your chances and HOPE your way out of that situation. [/sarcasm]

reply to post by blupblup


With all due respect I don't think now is the time for that discussion, all though it is ceratinly necessary.
Emotions are high and people may not be at their most reasoned.

Edit to add.

Oops, wasn't meant to reply to you blup but the guy who you replied to.

[edit on 2/6/10 by Freeborn]

I think the people of Cumbria are dealing with this incredibly well.

Interviews i have heard with local residents, MP'S, Police, Emergancy Services, Religious Leaders have been very composed, humble and humane.

Brilliant people. It makes me want to visit the area to support them.

reply to post by Freeborn




I know man.... the thread was going fine and people were just discussing it until some "If you all had guns" person shows up.

I wasn't going to reply but saw that it could go on for some time, so just said my piece hoping they'd shut up ya know?

Always get one... :shk:

[edit on 2/6/10 by blupblup]

reply to post by blupblup


Just leave them to it.

However it is important to discuss how gun laws apply to this case. But it is far to early to make any assumptions as we have no information on it.

One thing i will add is that once you are permitted to own a gun in this country, which includes tests on a person's mental state, this holds for 5 years.

All it takes is a moment to flip so whether it is 5 years 5 weeks or 5 days I severly doubt this could have been stopped by any law.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
I severly doubt this could have been stopped by any law.

It couldn't/wouldn't have.

If the guy wanted to get guns, It's not hard and he would have got them.
I'm sure we'll see soon enough whether the guns were legal or illegal but in this case, I think he may have just wanted to kill.

On the other hand, If reports so far are to be believed, then if this did start from an argument, and he didn't have guns at home.... I'm sure by the time he did get them or looked into getting them, he may well have calmed down?

We'll know soon enough what the situation with permits and the legality of these firearms is.

I found it interesting and worrying that the Deputy Superintendent appealed to people in the area to phone friends and family to make sure that they are ok.

This indicates that the Police are still concerned about the possibility of other crime scenes and further victims as a result of this.

Several victims are still in critical condition, fingers crossed they'll make it. A shotgun and another weapon are reportedly the devices he used, it's pretty shocking considering Cumbria, a small quiet town, has been through alot of turmoil this year.

Totally shocked

But I'll say this now: this is no reason to change our gun laws in either direction. If Britons were allowed to own handguns then 99.9% of us would not do so. Though I'm sure quite a few Cumbrian folk do own shotguns and rifles, it being a rural area.

reply to post by Essan


Agreed, mostly Chavs would try and obtain guns and to be honest, without sounding malicious, i wouldn't mind if they all started killing each other off as i despise them. We rarely see shootings like this in England thanks to our strict gun policies, other countries should adopt this method.

All I will say on the matter at the moment is that gun crime is a relative rarity in the UK and when it occurs it tends to be a national issue, quite the opposite to some other places I could mention.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by blupblup

 

With all due respect I don't think now is the time for that discussion, all though it is ceratinly necessary.
Emotions are high and people may not be at their most reasoned.

Edit to add.

Oops, wasn't meant to reply to you blup but the guy who you replied to.

[edit on 2/6/10 by Freeborn]

I couldn't agree more, although I think you could have dropped the "With all due respect".

I've been listening to the reports and it's clear that the region is in deep shock. They have recently had the floods, the school bus tragedy and now this. But it seems everyone has rallied round. The Fire Brigade had to tend many of the injured as the Ambulance Service was overwhelmed. They also blocked roads with their Fire engines to try an protect villages from this nut case, who everyone is describing as quiet and normal Mr Average.

The problem is when this 'Mr Average' flipped, he had access to guns.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

Believe it or not, people are actually capable of using common sense. And when the general citizenry is armed, there is no need to be 'out on the streets' hunting criminals. There is also no need to hide in your homes while a single gunman is allowed to terrorize entire suburbs. Fine for the police to issue a caution and advise not to approach this man, not fine to be hiding under your beds with nothing but hope that the police will protect you.

This kind of tragedy is extremely rare in the UK and you think that the answer is to arm the whole nation? You might live in the land of cowboys and indians but we don't want the wild, wild west here in the U.K so do me a favour and stick your guns where the sun doesn't shine.

Sad day.

I have no idea what pushes people to this kind of thing, nor do I ever want to find out, or experience it first hand.

Insanity, plane and simple.

reply to post by Hawkwind.


Look at Switzerland, they have the right to bear arms yet have a very low crime rate. Simply because guns are legal to law abiding citizens doesn't mean it's going to turn in to the 'wild west'. But you are right, things like this are not common in the UK, we have never had a gun culture like the USA even when they were legal.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by Solomons]

This just hit the MSM in the US. My thoughts go out to those that have been affected across the pond. Criminals will ALWAYS find a way to get firearms and commit Evil. It pisses me off that people are stripped of their God given right to protect themselves by the government.

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

Around 10:30 PM (GMT) tomorrow, i will more than likely know alot more than what the media is saying, as several taxi drivers come into work and since this area is the sort of "everyone knows everyone" type of area, the "hot" subject will be this and there will be plenty of rumours going around.

Right now there's nothing more i can add as i only know as much as the news so far so just stick to that, if i hear anything while at work tomorrow ill let people know.

R.I.P to all the victims and i wish support for the families and friends involved.

This day is still so so surreal to me, i just went to the garage for a couple things and every ones just quiet and trying to get on even knowing the horrendous things that have occurred hours ago...

Once again Cumbria goes through hell, and once again people will unite and triumph.