12 confirmed murdered and 25 injured after Gunman runs amok in Whitehaven, Egremont and Seascale, Cu

reply to post by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
Care to back that one up?... who is taking cheap pot shots at British culture?!?

Although not directed at me, I'll happily reply.
There have been several people on here saying that if we weren't so "archaic" and if we allowed people to carry guns, then this would never have happened.
That's just BS.... it really is.
As several Brits have pointed out... we don't like guns, we don't want them, we don't think they're a fashion accessory and not being "Allowed" to carry them is a non issue.
If you belong to a gun club or go Clay shooting or hunting or any number of things, you can have a gun.

Also someone mentioned about if everyone had guns then this would have been over in a flash.... what about the shooting over there on a base? Where roughly the same amount of people were killed? Fort Hood I believe.... A base Full of guns and the guy still killed 13 people was it?


Or perhaps the 14 killed in Binghampton??

Why wasn't this guy gunned down by all the gun-totin' citizens?

So yeah, your theory isn't very good is it?

I get that the UK was never a big gun culture , but to strip the people of having the OPTION to protect themselves , I believe is Wrong.

As many, many people have said.... we Don't want guns..... it's not that we're not allowed or we have no rights.... we DO NOT WANT them.... do you understand?

If there was a vote..... 99.9% of people would be against guns.

We're not robbed of our right, our government isn't taking our guns so they can round us all up..... we don't want them.
We don't care for guns, we settle our differences without them.... usually.

That's why, as I previously said, we have one of these incidents about every 10-15 years.... you have about 2-3 a year.

Do you know why?

Because you have GUNS



[edit on 2/6/10 by blupblup]

reply to post by neformore

The absolute depths that some people will sink to - in this case turning a tradgedy into a cheap pot shot at British culture - never ceases to amaze me.

Seems like some people are also sinking low enough to use this tragedy to take a cheap pot shot at American culture. You must have missed this one huh......

Didn't come over here from the USA did he? This type of thing usually happens over there...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


This kind of tragedy can and does happen all over the world, regardless of gun laws, or culture. When someone snaps there's just no way to prevent this type of thing, if it wasn't a gun it would've been a knife, or something else.

reply to post by Freeborn


Yes EXACTLY like columbine! Which was a contained active shooter situation with 2 shooters in a defenseless Gun free zone (School) , once opposition with guns got there they offed themselves. The killer today had free roam of the countryside to kill anyone at will in a Gun free country.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


What about the examples blup gave?

We don't want guns.

What is hard about that to understand?

We have one of these instances a decade or so, it is almost an everyday occurrence in the USA.

You want to keep your guns, fair play, it's part of your culture.
Keep them.
We don't want it to be a part of our's.

As was said before, we settle our differences in other ways.
Go into any city, town, village on a weekend and you see it happening everywhere.

I'd much rather have a black eye than bullet in the head!

Gun ownership here in blighty has never been big even when they were legal before dumblane and hungerford that took away semi automatic then hand guns.
Guess its a brit thing,we dont want or need them but I can understand my friends from over the pond who need them
In your shoes with the amount of guns floating about there isnt a chance in hell i would sacrifice my families safety being there is a bloody good chance an intruder could be tooled up.

Having said that,Im realy glad its rare for people to own guns here(but we still can get a gun licence with the right checks ect)

reply to post by chise61


I, and I think most people on here have no desire to have 'cheap shot's' at US culture.
It's your choice, do as you please.

But everytime something like this happens it seems all we get is American's coming on here stating that it wouldn't happen if we had the right to bear arms.

But it would because it does in the US.

Be as that may, I think if you read the whole thread it was asked not to turn this into a gun law debate, it's not the time or place, emotions are high or people are just shocked and stunned.

Of course it's a debate that is required, just not now methinks.

Let our thoughts instead be with those who have suffered as a result of this tragic event.

Fortunately none of my friends have been affected.

I live in Workington, 8 miles away, my sons live in Whitehaven. I knew the gunman and a couple of his victims. I have to say absolutley shocked. We were all told to stay indoors earlier until it got sorted out, some shops were even locking their customers in until the all clear.
I'm just glad he's dead, our pathetic justice system would have just locked him in a room with a playstation 3 for the rest of his life.

reply to post by Freeborn


great point,we get a lot of stick in this country for our knife crimes but you cant out run a bullet!I can understand and respect other countries who choose to allow weapons but Im realy glad that most people in this country see carrying a firearm or a knife as being a bit of a pussy!

reply to post by blupblup

what about the shooting over there on a base? Where roughly the same amount of people were killed? Fort Hood I believe.... A base Full of guns and the guy's still killed 13 people was it?

Well Brain , people don't walk around with loaded rifles on bases , they stay locked in the armory until you need to use them. Bases are also "gun free zones" you are not allowed to carry personal weapons. So once again you had 1 Guy with guns killing a bunch of people without guns.

As many, many people have said.... we Don't want guns..... it's not that we're not allowed or we have no rights.... we DO NOT WANT them.... do you understand? If there was a vote..... 99.9% of people would be against guns.

I understand that YOU don't want guns , and It IS the fact that you're not allowed and have no right to carry. You can't carry a firearm to protect yourself , but criminals don't abide by those rules , so the only people walking around with guns now are criminals , and you are helpless to stop them , you will be food.

It's not like you guys don't have violent crime , It's just that in the UK people get STABBED INSTEAD OF SHOT!

But you're so Brainwashed you can't see that...

* In or about 2006, there were about 58 million people in the UK as a whole, including Scotland.

* In England and Wales alone — discounting Scotland — there were over 163 thousand knife crimes.

* By the end of 2006, there were more than 300 million people in the US as a whole.

* In the US as a whole, there were fewer than 400 thousand gun crimes.

* In the UK, based on these numbers, there was one knife crime commited for every 374 people (rounded down).

* In the US, based on these numbers, there was one gun crime committed for every 750 people — less than half a gun crime per 374 people (about 0.4987 gun crimes per 374 people, actually).

* That means that, based on these statistics, you are more than twice as likely to be a victim of knife crime in the UK as you are to be a victim of gun crime in the US.


SOURCE



@ the request of Freeborn I'll leave this debate to another day...

[edit on 2-6-2010 by EyesWideShut]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
This may be a little off topic, but doesn't this situation demonstrate the foolishness of disarming the law abiding public? A criminal has a gun and entire regions are being told to hide in their homes?

Well. It demonstrates that UK shooters do a lot better job than US shooters.. Considering they have a more limited types of weapons, and they actually have to regularly shoot to own them.

It's not that they couldn't shoot him, because there's actually quite a few sport shooters in the UK, but it would illegal for them to do so..


And personally I wouldn't go out and chase a gunman that was just firing at everybody. Perhaps if he was outside in my neighborhood, and I could get a quick clean shot with no risk of hitting nearby innocents..

I think it demonstrates that the police in England should be better armed in their daily duties to be able to handle this sort of threat.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Miraj]

reply to post by EyesWideShut


Not calling you a liar, but aources please, that seems significantly higher than I recall seeing before, but I could be wrong.

That works out at nearly 450 knife crimes per day in the UK...that seems very high!

reply to post by EyesWideShut




So knife crime and gun crime.... that doesn't tell me how many died?

I would rather have a knife pulled on me than a gun any day mate.

I'm not going to derail the thread arguing about whether it's safer to carry or not carry guns.... It's pointless.

For every fact I present about you being up to 4 times more likely to be killed or injured by a gun if you carry one..... you'll have some NRA stat about how guns are safer than water-pistols.

Whatever man.... you guys love guns and kill each other regularly with them, we don't and that's why this incident today is as rare as rocking horse shi*.... and why people are genuinely shocked....



[edit on 2/6/10 by blupblup]

Right back to the actual news story if that's possible.

This doesn't look very random, at least in regards to the killings at the taxi rank.

He appears to have cracked after having a heated argument with colleagues yesterday evening. A friend, Peter Leder, said that as he clocked off last night, Bird had said: “See you later, Peter – although you won’t see me again.”

Bird arrived back at the Whitehaven taxi rank at about 10.30am, shooting three colleagues, two of whom died, and taking potshots at others. Witnesses variously described him as having a shotgun and a rifle with a telescopic sight

www.timesonline.co.uk...

He did indeed appear to be carrying two guns, which explains the conflicting reports of a shotgun and rifle.

Two of the names of the victims. I know one has already been posted on here, that of one of the taxi drivers killed.

One of Bird's victims in Seascale was named by a family friend as Jane Robinson, 66, who was shot dead in Drigg Road, just yards from the home she shared with her twin sister, Barrie. One of the taxi drivers killed by Bird was named locally as Darren Rewcastle.

As to be expected from gunshot wounds some of those injured are still in extreme danger of death.

"The following is an update on those who are most seriously injured. Three casualties are in a critical condition, five are in a serious condition.

www.independent.co.uk...

I hope they pull through.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


My missus is from seascale, she knew the lady very well. She is saddened by the news. As for random, the first couple definatley wern't (taxi driver and farmers son) they were friends of his.

The rest probably were him just wanting to do as much damage before blowing his brains out.

reply to post by Freeborn


I wasn't referring to most people, I was referring to one person in particular as it seems that that some people took notice of the comments about the UK, but not the comment about America that started the debate.

I did read the whole thread before I posted, and I haven't in any way debated the gun laws of any country. The only gun laws that I care about are in my own counrty. If the people of the UK don't want guns that is their right and none of my business.

Just as some are sensitive to what Americans say about the gun laws in the UK and are offended by their remarks when something like this happens over there, I take offense at someone making snide remarks about America because of the actions of a deranged man.

My thoughts are with the people that have suffered from this tragedy, which you will see in my first post.

reply to post by Freeborn



Source are the highlighted link at the bottom of the previous post that says

SOURCES

statistical sources:
* UK knife crime statistics
* Bureau of Justice Statistics: Crimes Committed with Firearms * RDS Crime in England and Wales 2006/2007
* National Statistics Online: UK Population (England, Scotland, and Wales, excluding outlying islands)
* Demographics of the United States
* United States Crime Rates 1960-2007


ONCE AGAIN... Done with this argument and Sorry for the Derailment , I got sucked into it against my better judgment.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by EyesWideShut]

reply to post by woogleuk


I'm very sorry to hear that pal. I hope your missus will be ok in the long term.

I think the rest of the murders may well have been pre-meditated. Not the actual identity of the victims, but the intention to kill more.

Why take two guns with you, which cannot be fired at the same time, if you just plan to take out three guys all standing in one place?

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

I really hope we can keep this away from a gun debate.. I hope that Americans here can accept the UK Laws are UK laws.. and that we have no say in that debate since it is not our country.. And that since this is NOT a debate about guns we should not offer our opinion either.

And that goes both ways. Lets not argue about which laws are better or worse. That should be reserved for political debates, which this is not.

It's not about gun laws, it's about a crazy guy killing a bunch of people.

Originally posted by blupblup
That's why, as I previously said, we have one of these incidents about every 10-15 years.... you have about 2-3 a year.

Do you know why?

Because you have GUNS

Apparently the criminals in your country do too! So sad that those in your country, law abiding, who would choose to have a gun in order to defend themselves are stripped of that right. This event could have been brought to an end much sooner!

Man Kills Burglar
Woman Shoots and Kills Intruder
41 Year Old Woman Kills Intruder
Woman Shoots, Kills Assailant
Store Clerk Shoots Armed Robber
Armed Civilian Ends Shooting Spree

The above headlines are examples of people who are alive today because they had the RIGHT to CHOOSE to own a gun in order to defend themselves or others around them. In each of these cases the criminal had a gun. If the United States had the same stupid "pointy stick" ban that the UK has, each of these people would be dead. Why? Because as we have JUST witnessed - even where gun ownership is illegal, CRIMINALS STILL HAVE GUNS!!!

I have a Concealed Carry Permit. I carry my Sig Sauer P239 in .40S&W with me everywhere. The reason I carry my gun is because I am not able to carry a police officer. When the police are less than a minute away, you may only have seconds to live!

Edited: Spelling

[edit on 2-6-2010 by kozmo]

reply to post by kozmo




Your argument is the same one I responded too at the top of the page.

Here ya go, saves me typing it all out again.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2/6/10 by blupblup]