Deport Children of Illegals: Hunter

If I had a choice, which I don't, I'd rather my tax dollars go to toward keeping any child, illegal or no, from going hungry than to go toward some bureaucrat's boat payment.
If this discussion really centers on people suckling on the government teat, let's examine where the all the money goes, not just welfare.

reply to post by refugee


Is plenty of American born children from none illegals that goes hungry in this nation today because of unemployment and poverty, yes in the great American this happens everyday.

When I was working with the school system we knew how many of the children in the schools only had one hot meal a day and that was the free food lunches they got at school.

Sad but truth, I believe is a thread in ATS by Dgtempe that posted the statistics of poverty and hunger in the great USA.

America is not what many think, the social and economic inequality is growing and has gotten worst after the financial collapse, while Wall street thrives most of the rest of the nation is falling into unemployment and many families are finding themselves destitute and homeless.





[edit on 30-4-2010 by marg6043]

Originally posted by 23refugee
If I had a choice, which I don't, I'd rather my tax dollars go to toward keeping any child, illegal or no, from going hungry than to go toward some bureaucrat's boat payment.
If this discussion really centers on people suckling on the government teat, let's examine where the all the money goes, not just welfare.

Humans should just starve in the street. This is capitalism, you know that.

But, you are right. More money has been wasted in war and pork than illegals may have run off with. I doubt what they have run off with in total would equal 5% of what gets wasted in this country every year. An old lesson mom taught me from budgeting, don't sweat 10 bucks a month at the coffee house. It's better that you sweat a huge light bill, or your insane grocery spending. Save on the biggest things and you will find more money.

reply to post by marg6043


I'm from Appalachia, so poverty is no surprise. My mom taught for years in the Headstart program, so I'm aware of those who do without.
My point is that many continue to profit, while some make a scapegoat of those who are in the same boat.
If we're going to question who's got their hand in this socialist pie, let's not ignore those who take the biggest slice.

You know from reading a lot of these posts on here I've come to this one conclusion: I love these forums and I love people but you guys tend to speak in really ridiculous generalizations and this topic is a prime example of that. I am also convinced that there is a huge number of people posting on this board that don't have a clue as to what true Capitalism is, just like I don't think a lot of the people who tune into Beck and Faux news have any idea what Marxism is either. (Although I will state that Marxism is nothing more than rouge by the banksters to fully enslave populations and still there money but that argument is for another day.)

For a place that basically is the paragon of alternative thought there seems to be a lot of ridiculous conclusions being drawn that are just baffling.

There is a great article in the NYT concerning the Arizona issue.

HERE

I still think this guy is totally misguided for trying to separate families.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by justinsweatt]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

Sorry to make you feel uncomfortable with my post, but you see been Latina myself I have learn to talk the truth about the situation facing this nation.

You don't like to hear the truth then don't read it.

I am very comfortable posting the way I do.

Wait for the amnesty that is coming, wait for the millions that will fall into Obama public option of the HCR, "bigger Medicaid" and wait when the tax payer have to foot the bill for all those new citizens that will start sucking up the system at the expenses of tax payers because they will fall in the poverty level.

If amnesty is not given still the million of new born American citizens from illegals will suck up the system under the HCR.

reality stinks, right?, but guess what Reagan Amensty didn't do a darn thing for the nation and this time again is going to be worst.

Like or not. . .

No. I have no problem with what your write and the way you write it and more critically what it says. It is your right and I do not intend to dimished it even if i could. It's only through debate can we come out with solutions.

I agree fully with you that the Reagan Amnesty had done nothing to resolve the problem in the 80s, and are now watching the result of those errors starkly at our face.

So now we know the errors, the mistakes. It will be up to you and me to effect and correct those errors, not Nazi Gestapo style, but with pragmatism.


1.) I agree that no man should sloth upon another's hard labour. It is high time the social welfare programme be fine tuned to serve the truly needy and not for the frivoulous. No child must go hungry, even if we adults have to go hungry ourselves.

You and I will not be able to do the big stuff, but through our elected representatives, change can be effected. We must vote wisely now.


2. ) Set up social programmes to educate the illegals on english and basic laws of the country, so that assimilation can be easier. It doesnt cost much on taxpayer for a night class of 200. Espacially in these low employment times.


3. ) Give them a time frame of 1-2 years to learn, then if they pass a simple test, give them the green card and become a full fledge citizen. They will be able to contribute to society in more ways than just the $ aspect. Their children will be the next scientist or engineers, or mechanic. Everyone plays a role and each is important for a society to thrive.

Today, we may complain it's gonna cost a lot and a strain on the treasury. But once they contribute, the treasury will overflow.

What California did wrong was that it just dump money and thought problem solved. That's not the way to do things. The result showed.


4. ) Organise State community events, either by the state or private institutions such as Churches or charity organisations, to get fellow americans and these illegals to come face to face each other, BBQ or games, to know one another, and at least try to understand one another to foster better relationships. Very seldom will friends rob or hurt one another, if the hand stretched out is geniune.

5. ) Employers....well, hope they learn their lessons for the social ills they had created to society and not make the same mistakes again.

These are only a few of the things I can think of, and I am only just an ordinary John Doe. There are more who are intelligent and can come out with better ideas on how to reach out instead of showing fists.

We do not live in Utopia, but that's not a reason to excuse ourselves from attempting to make it one, if not in our lifetime, as least for the next generations.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


If that is the way you feel, thats fine, good for you. You would of course be complicit in the commission of a crime, but that is another issue.

Your plan is thoughtful and reasonable. It has been on this thread by many folks and its easy to say "I'd do this and do that" when you are actually not on the spot to do this or that.

The problem with your argument is that despite your view, the law stipulates that they are illegal and should therefore be sent home. Thats the law. Now you may not like the law. Super. There are ways to change the law with due process. Many folks on this thread don't like the drug laws, I personally don't like anti-privacy laws like those included in the patriot act, know your customer and the like. The fundamental issue is that my responsibility to work within the system to change those laws, not simply disobey them.

We can't be in the situation where folks are knowingly breaking the laws they disagree with and most of the folks who are pro-illegal would not certainly not agree with the breaking of laws for which they disagree. They are hypocrites.

YOU might think the law unjust and wish to break it. There are other laws that I would wish to break. If everyone wanted to do that, we would have anarchy. If you desire to live in that form of society, great, move to Somalia.

The vast majority of folks in this country want the borders closed and the illegals dealt with, a lot of them by shipping them home, thems the breaks.

You might not be one of them, but most of the folks who say "I would do this and I would do that" in terms of giving of their energy and things to help the illegals are patently dishonest and need to get off their high hourse.

If that is the way you do feel, you can certainly help these folks by supporting local foodbanks and other non-government entities who serve all comers.

If you truly feel the need to support and assist folks, why not try with Americans who really need help. There are plenty of them out there

reply to post by dolphinfan


The gist of your post is :-

1. Illegal immigrants are illegal and criminals. Punish them mercilessly as according to the law.

2. Goody 2 shoes are hypocrites who don't help americans and prefers to help aliens.


Do allow me to share with you my short, precise and insignificant insight.

a.) Borders should be closed effectively and efficiently. That there are even illegals here is a failure of the authorities. So what are we, a civilised society going to do with those already here? Hunt them down like animals, starve them and kick their butts to the border? Dare we call ourselves human still?

b. ) There are many issues that are facing the nation. Illegal immigration is only one. You and I have only so much hours and that much funds to help to put so many raging fires in the nation.

But through properly and efficiently run State agencies, our combine funds will do much more to help others so that none gets left behind, doing it much better and more organised than what you and I can do.

Which is why we must vote wisely for the right person, and volunteer whatever we can that is within our limited capablity. And that was how America became a great nation and great place. We cared. Some faced this crisis lightly, but many others had been badly hurt. And may we continue to care and help each other once the corporate mess gets sorted out.


[edit on 30-4-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by UruFist

 

And you are only showing pathetic xenophobic fears. It is FEAR that is driving to make your posts in ATS. But is there a need for such fears?

Sit down, calm down, and just think rationally and consider what I have said. You and I have our say, now let the readers consider our points, if they so wish.

No point in reharshing my points to you. There will be no end, for your mind is already made up and would only be foolhardy for me to try to change yours.

Ultimately, it is only your views and what you perceive as truths. You are just one person with one view, just as I am. Its what other's combined views that will determine the direction of societies.

Chill out bro.

Have you ever KNOWN any "Illegals"?
Have you ever sat with a bunch of them, and listened to them joke around about their situation?
Have you ever been friends with any? Have you ever heard them joke about getting somebody pregnant while they are in the USA? How that is basically the "key to the city"?
Obviously not.
Well, "bro", I have.
And, your view of me, is a stereotype in the highest degree. You couldn't imagine just how wrong you are. You are the one that needs to open your mind to different possibilities of what is going on out there.
How disgusting it is for people like you to stamp the lowest of visages upon anybody that disagrees with you, without any knowledge of the real people you are dealing with. To just label a person as a racist, or xenophobe, or hate-monger, just because they have had different, yet VALID experiences from you, is every bit as grotesque as what you are accusing them of.
My suggestion is, go get a job as a landscaper, or dishwasher, or fruit-picker, where you might actually get to see the situation close-up, and learn something that is not in a pamphlet, or floating in the liberal media.

The issues that we are worried about are real. They are real, and need to be addressed, and no degree of programmed racial self-hate, or white-guilt is going to change that.

1.You presumed that I do not know illegal immigrants, or listen to them and a whole lot of other presumptions about me.

2. You accuse me of sterotyping you, yet by your own post, in your own writing, you are only sterotyping yourself, need no help from me.

3. But this post and thread is NOT about me. I am not important. What is important is you, and your worries.

Rather than to generalize here and yourself making innuendoes of the illegal immigrants as a whole, why not present what are the actual and presumably real issues that are bothering you so that solutions may be found? You do have that right here.

indeed give the Illegal families of babies born here a free plane ride back to Mexico city & $100. of relocation money.

If they want to appeal, the family guardians can petition the Governor of the State they were deported from...
to grant them a Pardon and/or Amnesty


the great migration must be sponsered by the UN,
and from my guessing the UN would have to pay the USA multi-Trillions
in restitution in 'taking-in' these illegal claim-jumpers/

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
1.You presumed that I do not know illegal immigrants, or listen to them and a whole lot of other presumptions about me.

2. You accuse me of sterotyping you, yet by your own post, in your own writing, you are only sterotyping yourself, need no help from me.

3. But this post and thread is NOT about me. I am not important. What is important is you, and your worries.

Rather than to generalize here and yourself making innuendoes of the illegal immigrants as a whole, why not present what are the actual and presumably real issues that are bothering you so that solutions may be found? You do have that right here.

I am NOT against helping these people, or understanding their problems.
3 Million Mexican March to Mexico City? Y Not?

reply to post by St Udio


If amnesty is given, then how the small businesses that feed on illegal cheap labor are going to survive once their employees get full citizen status and required health care and a minimum wage.

People doesn't get it, the reason small businesses and big businesses feed on illegals is due to cheap labor.

Once the status change they will get unemployed until the businesses can get a new influx of illegals to fill the void, then what? the ones that are now citizens with new status no skills and due minimum wages will fall int the welfare cracks to be supported by the tax payer.

The vicious circle go on and on.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by St Udio

 

If amnesty is given, then how the small businesses that feed on illegal cheap labor are going to survive once their employees get full citizen status and required health care and a minimum wage.

People doesn't get it, the reason small businesses and big businesses feed on illegals is due to cheap labor.

Once the status change they will get unemployed until the businesses can get a new influx of illegals to fill the void, then what? the ones that are now citizens with new status no skills and due minimum wages will fall int the welfare cracks to be supported by the tax payer.

The vicious circle go on and on.

There is no small business that feeds on Illegals, big corporations do. Get the facts right, big corporations are now moving abroad because they found labor cheaper that illegals, its called slave labor. Just look at the workers in china and lovely work environments.

Once the illegals are ousted, the small business owner can actually strive against the big corporations. But the corporations who employ slave labor will still be a force to reckon with, we need to avoid those companies that employ such practices.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by prionace glauca]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by St Udio

 

If amnesty is given, then how the small businesses that feed on illegal cheap labor are going to survive once their employees get full citizen status and required health care and a minimum wage.

People doesn't get it, the reason small businesses and big businesses feed on illegals is due to cheap labor.

Once the status change they will get unemployed until the businesses can get a new influx of illegals to fill the void, then what? the ones that are now citizens with new status no skills and due minimum wages will fall int the welfare cracks to be supported by the tax payer.

The vicious circle go on and on.

So the solution is:-

Rather than to point the nation's wrath at these hapless humans fleeing from poverty and hopelessness, the nation's wrath should be directed at the greedy small or big businesses for knowingly hire and exploit illegal immigrants?

reply to post by prionace glauca


Wrong, border town small businesses are run by illegals on illegals cheap labor, to support the illegal communities that thrive on cheap labor and cheap living standards.

Get the fact straight, one is the big corporations feeding on cheap labor and then is those small businesses that thrive in border towns.

Still Ga is not a border town and businesses here from chicken food companies to farming and most construction takes illegal immigrants, because they can pay under the table under the minimum wage.

I used to work with children of illegal immigrants and before that I worked for a lawyer specializing in migrant and immigrant laws.

He use to go after workers comp for illegals injuries in the work force even if the illegal workers were hired under the table with no benefits





[edit on 30-4-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


They are far from helpless dear, they can always go back to their extended families back home .

Most of the illegal migrant workers I work with went back and forward from their homes in Mexico to the US wherever they needed to make money, still their children gave them the afford ability of having welfare and free health care.

How about the helpless here in America that are already American citizens, they have nowhere to go.

Just imagine if the situation was reversed. Put yourself in the place of the poor immigrant. Now tell me how you are going to survive and obey the law. Would you die to uphold the laws of Mexico?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Essentially yes, you captured my thoughts correctly, but took the one to the extreme.

The illegals should be rounded-up and taken back to Mexico. Lack of cooperation by the Mexican government would result in a withholding of foreign aid, both cash and in-kind to Mexico until such time that they cooperated.

Children of illegals would either be placed under state care or sent home with their parents.

Upon being rounded up, they would be housed in a state facility such as a closed military base. Provided with quality food and shelter, until Mexico took them back.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Not arguing with your suggestion, but you may want to consider:-

1. There are approx 20 million illegals. If they were all rounded up and place in a military like facillity, most probably it will take up a quarter size of Texas! Think of the constructions, labour, food, water, etc costs - it may be staggering. Worse if the original nations do not want them and protracted negotiations get in the way.

Perhaps it would be cheaper to make them citizens, get them working and paying direct or indirect taxes, the facillities use instead to generate income.

2. A child born in US is as american as home baked apple pie. Best not to tear up the Constitution. To place the child in State care will be more expensive and worse, breaks up the family inhumanely.

Better to give such families the green card and get them providing as a family unit with proper jobs and contributing to society.

But its just my one man's view. Perhaps others will agree to your suggestions . I don't call the shots anyway, just sharing insights.

To Marge:-
Thanks for your insight. Its an issue that I have no answers for nor the power to solve. Only a community elected representative can have the powers to improve our economic situation to help all get jobs with reasonable salaries, through increase tech and productivity to challenge China. (But you still have not anwer my question on the solution to whom should the nation's wrath be placed on for the exodus of mexican across the borders, attracting them like bees to honey....)


[edit on 30-4-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]