Deport Children of Illegals: Hunter

Originally posted by Glencairn
reply to post by antonia

 

Yes, illegal immigrants in Illinois CAN and DO get welfare subsidies, to claim otherwise is just flat out untrue. Stop doing it.

Take care,
Cindi

I stated in another post there are some illegals who probably do get it but, comparing the numbers it's obviously a very small amount. That's what the whole point was. It was not to claim it never happens and to show that logically, according to the number most illegals are not receiving it. I did not claim to know better than you. And since you are in a limited position of only seeing what goes on around you perhaps you should consider that. I do know illegals in my area, only one I know of get's welfare but that is a different state. I'm not here saying some of them aren't getting it. I'm saying it's stupid to get up in arms about it when the amount of money "wasted" is pretty small compared to the rest of the welfare rolls for legal Americans. And what's the other solution? Throw kids out or let them starve in the street? Doesn't sound very humane to me.

I'm tired of people blaming every problem in the country on a small portion of people. It's stupid, it's ignorant and it's wrong. As if deporting 9 year olds is going to fix the damn problem anyway.

And let's be realistic here. Do you seriously think Mexico would just take them back? Really, if we rounded up every illegal and all their kids do you think Mexico would just say "hey, send em here?". Of course not. They would be flooded with between 7 to 20 million people at one time. That number came to the U.S. over a decade or so. Of course they can't absorb that. I doubt there's even enough work to go around for that many people. What's needed here is not rhetoric, it's realistic solutions.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by antonia]

reply to post by antonia

OK Antonia,

1. Put them to work on the moons of Jupiter.
2. "Soylent Green"?
3. Send them into the Subterranean Realms to battle our Reptoid Enemies!

I respect what you are saying, but I see what you are saying as "Idealistic".
The 3 options I listed above are about as realistic as allowing an invading, lawbreaking wave of 20 million foreigners to remain in our country to do whatever they want to do, just because we are being strong-armed to do so.



[edit on 30-4-2010 by UruFist]

Originally posted by UruFist
reply to post by antonia

 

OK Antonia,

1. Put them to work on the moons of Jupiter.
2. "Soylent Green"?
3. Send them into the Subterranean Realms to battle our Reptoid Enemies!

I respect what you are saying, but those options are about as realistic as allowing an invading, lawbreaking wave of 20 million foreigners to remain in our country to do whatever they want to do, just because we are being strong-armed to do so.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by UruFist]

Do you have anything besides rhetoric? You will note I haven't offered a solution. I'm simply telling you the reality here. There is no way you can send these people back because Mexico isn't going to take them.


[edit on 30-4-2010 by antonia]

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by UruFist
reply to post by antonia

 

OK Antonia,

1. Put them to work on the moons of Jupiter.
2. "Soylent Green"?
3. Send them into the Subterranean Realms to battle our Reptoid Enemies!

I respect what you are saying, but those options are about as realistic as allowing an invading, lawbreaking wave of 20 million foreigners to remain in our country to do whatever they want to do, just because we are being strong-armed to do so.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by UruFist]

Do you haven't anything besides rhetoric? You will note I haven't offered a solution. I'm simply telling you the reality here. There is no way you can send these people back because Mexico isn't going to take them.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by antonia]

Actually, I HAVE offered a solution. Or, at least the basis of a solution.

3 Million Mexican March to Mexico City? Y Not?

Which is more than I can say for most of the pro-illegal posts I have seen that seem to be hell-bent on just having the USA cave in, and allow this invasion to happen without a whimper.

If they can fight for their rights in a country that they don't even belong in, while they make threats and demands, I see no reason why they can't do the same in their own country.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by UruFist]

Originally posted by UruFist
Actually, I HAVE offered a solution. Or, at least the basis of a solution.

3 Million Mexican March to Mexico City? Y Not?

I think it's wishful thinking much like the pie-in-the-sky idealists who don't believe in borders period. Firstly, good luck find 3 million illegals willing to leave their homes to march down there and risk getting deported or shot at. Secondly, what do you propose one do to fix Mexico?

Which is more than I can say for most of the pro-illegal posts I have seen that seem to be hell-bent on just having the USA cave in, and allow this invasion to happen without a whimper.

Why is there this assumption that if one doesn't agree with another they are someone on some kind of distant team? Guess what, I'm a human being same as you. I live in this country. I don't kill babies, push drugs or anything of that nature. I don't really like being painted as the faceless "pro-illegal camp". I'm not for these people breaking the law but, I'm also well aware of why many are doing it. I am also aware of the problems just throwing them out will create. I'm standing in a rare position these days-the middle. Trying to find some place where we can have some realistic solutions not simply kicking 9 year olds out and dumping masses of people in Mexico they will turn out anyway or just sitting around letting the cartels push further in. Frankly, the country was here before illegals and it will be here regardless of their presence.

If they can fight for their rights in a country that they don't even belong in, while they make threats and demands, I see no reason why they can't do the same in their own country.
[edit on 30-4-2010 by UruFist]

Most illegals I know don't protest period. They'd rather duck the INS. It's more likely most of the people at these protests are legals crying about racism. For the most part that's what I've seen.



[edit on 30-4-2010 by antonia]

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


A city is a conglomeration of intrests if the government wanted illegals out it would of happened. They are in the business of business what does anybody care as long as they make enough to profit and take of to somewere alse. Then the old immigrants become the new citizens  and then eventually when they grow in number and get comfortable and go into politics, then they will need some cheaper workers to make more money so therefore more illegals and new immigrants will come to the land of opportunity and most likely it will be from afghanistan or middle eastern countrys, I hear there is a war there. Its a circle the irish did it when they came here, so did the italians, and english, and everybody alse that immigrated to the usa.

This is a small problem its business, its been going on since the english wanted cheap workers/slaves so they imported them from africa. And when slavery was abolished then low wage immigrants were used as cheap labor, and so on and so forth. Find those who profitt from cheap labor and get rid of them then your problem will be solved. Unless you want a war on illegal immigrants, look how successful the war on drugs was. The truth is all your politicians and leaders and even the average joe when this got started, there thoughts were 'oh immigration a good way to get rich' now there biatching because there scam dident work as everybody envisioned. bo hu hu all of you got yourselves in this mess and the intentions werent noble. And now you want to cry abouth it, all of a sudden now its a problem, when this has happened for hundreds of years. Everybody played the take advantage of the new guy game, the ptb played and lost. what alse is new. The actions of a society reaveals the minds and intentions of its people.

Do I think you need harsher laws for immigrants and illegals...no. You need to find the root of this problem then make more effective laws that actually work to make life in america more for americans that actually want to live and grow up here, instead of this rat race. But if you want build a wall see how that works for you, if the ptb will let you build one it might interfere with the drug trade.

reply to post by antonia

Ha! I don't know how to "fix" Mexico. You are right.
That is why I made that thread. I was hoping I would see some ideas.
But, more than anything, I was trying to illustrate that if all the resources that are being used to change things in the USA, were redirected onto the issues in Mexico that are causing these people to feel such desperation, I think they would have a better chance of making some real changes.

Originally posted by UruFist
reply to post by antonia

 

Ha! I don't know how to "fix" Mexico. You are right.
That is why I made that thread. I was hoping I would see some ideas.
But, more than anything, I was trying to illustrate that if all the resources that are being used to change things in the USA, were redirected onto the issues in Mexico that are causing these people to feel such desperation, I think they would have a better chance of making some real changes.

Many of the issues originated in the U.S. as well. NAFTA was not a creation of Mexico. Most of the companies taking advantage of the population are not mexican. Most of the people buying illegal drugs aren't mexican. You can't muster 3 million people without giving them some sort of solution. Even Dr. King had ideas before he started his marches. You can't just throw anger around. No one listens to that anymore.

And honestly, I don't see too many things changing in the U.S. to benefit illegals. More likely to benefit fat cats in politics.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by antonia]

reply to post by UruFist


First off let me say that I live in central america. That would be south of Mexico. Now if the question is how to fix Mexico? I would have to say that Mexico is not broken. The real problem is that people think that the US is so much more than it really is.

I have a friend whos father was just dying to go to the states. My dad was here and he was drilling him for info. My dad is a resident alien. My dad told him flat out "don't go illegaly. Times are tough and work without a permit is hard to find". Did he listen? No. First thing he did was find someone to loan him the money against the deed to his home to pay a smuggler about $7000 to get him into the US.

His wife is a seamstress and earns about $800 a month but sometimes she gets special orders for factory uniforms and she makes out quite well. So after 4 years of him being in the US it was his wife who was finally able to get the deed on their home back.

Pride would not allow him to admit defeat but after about 5 years his wife had to send him money so that he could come back home.

One has to wonder why he even left.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by daskakik]

[edit on 30-4-2010 by daskakik]

[edit on 30-4-2010 by daskakik]

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by UruFist

 

First off let me say that I live in central america. That would be south of Mexico. Now if the question is how to fix Mexico? I would have to say that Mexico is not broken. The real problem is that people think that the US is so much more than it really is.

I have a friend whos father was just dying to go to the states. My dad was here and he was drilling him for info. My dad is a resident alien. My dad told him flat out "don't go illegaly. Times are tough and work without a permit is hard to find". Did he listen? No. First thing he did was find someone to loan him the money against the deed to his home to pay a smuggler about $7000 to get him into the US.

His wife is a seamstress and earns about $800 a month but sometimes she gets special orders for factory uniforms and she makes out quite well. So after 4 years of being in the US his wife was finally able to get the deed on their home back.

Pride would not allow him to admit defeat but about 5 years his wife had to send him money so that he could come back home.

One has to wonder why he even left.

If I had family in Central America or South America, I might be tempted to give it a try, and take a trip. I am not kidding.
And, no, living in the USA is not any kind of ticket to easy living.
So, we can start a "Scared Straight" program, where potential illegal immigrants can first come up here and visit, so they can see that they would be happier just staying home.
The USA is definitely no perfect place to live, but we are here in it, and it's all we have, so, of course we are going to do whatever we can to keep it going, and if we see threats to it, we are going to fight.
It's just human nature. We all fight for our homes.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by UruFist]

Originally posted by UruFist

The USA is definitely no perfect place to live, but we are here in it, and it's all we have, so, of course we are going to do whatever we can to keep it going, and if we see threats to it, we are going to fight.
It's just human nature. We all fight for our homes.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by UruFist]

Personally I don't think the problem is wanting to "fight for one's home". It's that i simply don't think most people have any idea what they are fighting for and who they should be fighting. It's come to the point where ATS is starting to look like GLP. That's kinda scary.

Hunter is 100% correct. Bruce Lee was born in the uSA and went home with his parents to Hong Kong. When he was an adult he as free to return and claim "citizenship". No problem. The child belongs with the parents and the parents don't belong here!

reply to post by ReelView


Lee Hoi-Chuen, Bruce's father, was not an illegal alien. He was not deported. His parents chose to go back to Hong Kong and it was not under duress. Really bad example as Bruce was truly raised in Hong Kong. He was not even 3 when they left.

Comparing some random kid who has been raised in the U.S. since birth to Bruce Lee is silly.

Originally posted by antonia
reply to post by ReelView

 

Lee Hoi-Chuen, Bruce's father, was not an illegal alien. He was not deported. His parents chose to go back to Hong Kong and it was not under duress. Really bad example as Bruce was truly raised in Hong Kong. He was not even 3 when they left.

Comparing some random kid who has been raised in the U.S. since birth to Bruce Lee is silly.

But, it is also silly to say that these people should get what the want, at the cost of so many others that have no connection to them, just because they WANT it.
WANTING it does not mean they should have it. And, not getting what they want, in this case, should not mean that people who are just asking for their laws to be upheld, and are making decision about what is best for their country, should not be made out to be evil, or uneducated or xenophobic.
You do not have the right to do that.
The citizens of this country, for the most part, have to live within a set of laws, otherwise they are punished.
We are told that these laws are for the good of the society, so we go along with them.
Who are you to say that now, we must allow so many, that do not even belong here, to ignore our laws. And, at a cost to this country's citizens.
It's not right.
These people broke the law. Then they compounded it in many cases, by complicating their situations further by having children, getting in trouble, etc.
It is sad, but it is not our responsibility to ignore the fact that they did this to themselves. Nobody forced these people here. The rich employers you keep speaking of, did not fly down to Mexico, and scoop them up in nets to work up here. They came on their own. We did not go down to Mexico, and make things so intolerable that they had to flee to the USA. They allowed it to get this far, and they are going to have to fight to repair the damage, just as we have done in our country.

Nobody is responsible for my actions, and nobody should be responsible for the actions of these people either. Nobody but themselves.

But, it is also silly to say that these people should get what the want, at the cost of so many others that have no connection to them, just because they WANT it.

I advocated no such thing. You are simply assuming because i think it's kinda dumb to blame all your problems on illegals, deport kids born in this country and try to cram 7 to 20 million people into mexico on a whim that I am willing to give these people everything they want.

And, not getting what they want, in this case, should not mean that people who are just asking for their laws to be upheld, and are making decision about what is best for their country, should not be made out to be evil, or uneducated or xenophobic.

Generally, I think people who lash out at kids of all people are pretty ignorant. I make no bones about that. Kids don't ask to be born. They aren't criminals or leeches.

The citizens of this country, for the most part, have to live within a set of laws, otherwise they are punished.
We are told that these laws are for the good of the society, so we go along with them.
Who are you to say that now, we must allow so many, that do not even belong here, to ignore our laws. And, at a cost to this country's citizens.
It's not right.
These people broke the law. Then they compounded it in many cases, by complicating their situations further by having children, getting in trouble, etc.

Do you know how many people smoke weed everyday? Millions. It's a pretty popular pastime. Smoking weed is against the law. By that token we should toss them all in the pookey right? Except anyone with good sense is going to see how unfeasible that is. All of a sudden you've got to find room for at least 20 million people. You will have to try them, process them and hold them. You can't enforce that wholesale so it isn't done.

How are you going to arrest, process, hold and eventually move 7 to 20 million people (and their kids) into a country that probably will not accept you bringing them there? And when you get back and your country is still screwed up (which it will be) who will you blame then?

[edit on 1-5-2010 by antonia]

reply to post by UruFist


The truth is that they are not getting what they want. The anchor baby thing is not true. It may have been so in the past but..

"Based on that finding, at least 13,000 American children have seen one or both parents deported in the past two years after round-ups in factories and neighborhoods."

Immigration Quandary: A Mother Torn From Her Baby

Originally posted by antonia

But, it is also silly to say that these people should get what the want, at the cost of so many others that have no connection to them, just because they WANT it.

I advocated no such thing. You are simply assuming because i think it's kinda dumb to blame all your problems on illegals, deport kids born in this country and try to cram 7 to 20 million people into mexico on a whim that I am willing to give these people everything they want.

And, not getting what they want, in this case, should not mean that people who are just asking for their laws to be upheld, and are making decision about what is best for their country, should not be made out to be evil, or uneducated or xenophobic.

Generally, I think people who lash out at kids of all people are pretty ignorant. I make no bones about that. Kids don't ask to be born. They aren't criminals or leeches.

The citizens of this country, for the most part, have to live within a set of laws, otherwise they are punished.
We are told that these laws are for the good of the society, so we go along with them.
Who are you to say that now, we must allow so many, that do not even belong here, to ignore our laws. And, at a cost to this country's citizens.
It's not right.
These people broke the law. Then they compounded it in many cases, by complicating their situations further by having children, getting in trouble, etc.

Do you know how many people smoke weed everyday? Millions. It's a pretty popular pastime. Smoking weed is against the law. By that token we should toss them all in the pookey right? Except anyone with good sense is going to see how unfeasible that is. All of a sudden you've got to find room for at least 20 million people. You will have to try them, process them and hold them. You can't enforce that wholesale so it isn't done.

How are you going to arrest, process, hold and eventually move 7 to 20 million people (and their kids) into a country that probably will not accept you bringing them there? And when you get back and your country is still screwed up (which it will be) who will you blame then?

[edit on 1-5-2010 by antonia]

I don't know if you realize it, but every time you post, you are pretty much making me feel as though I am being cornered and threatened and having something forced upon me.
And, by that, I mean you are totally ignoring the thoughts, lives, beliefs and concerns of the people that rightfully live here, and you are pretty much insisting that this be thrust down our throats.
And, again, you may not realize it, but you are setting me further and further against your position with each one of these posts.
I don't know if others are feeling the same way, but without realizing it, you are proving my point, and making me feel, more than ever, that your perspective should NEVER be acted upon.
Then again, as you stated above, we are talking about my country, and not yours.
So, you can afford to make outlandish suggestions, cast accusations, toss your views of morality around and stand on the sidelines.
How absolutely disgusting.
You have no stake in any of this.
Now that I understand, I am finished debating with you.
The "High Ground" is easy to take when you are not involved personally.
Go back to reading about the USA in your local news paper, fashion or rock magazine, or wherever you have stumbled upon what you call "facts".
Thank God, you are just a self righteous, propaganda-soaked foreign spectator. And, I don't mean that as an insult. It is strictly a description.
Thank you for chiming in on what OUR country should do in this crisis.

reply to post by antonia


Actually, that isn't true. In your second post on this thread you claimed that illegal immigrants don't get welfare, the only exception being pregnant mothers without insurance who get birth/maternal care only. I posted, as well as another poster, and corrected your misinformation.

The fact that you have to lie to maintain your argument, claim that I have posted things that I never posted, and attribute motives and agendas to me that I have never espoused is confusing to me. I haven't offered any opinion on the matter, so the fact that you are making claims as to my motives, opinions, and agenda is all on you and cut from whole cloth.

I'm sorry that you can't just accept that you were mistaken and learn when presented with correct information. I also don't have to consider anything, frankly. Whether I was in some kind of "limited position" or otherwise, (and really, not knowing who I am, that is even more speculation on your part) I do have experiences that prove your information false and I thought it would be helpful to correct some mistaken information. That's it.

Where any of this other vitriol that you posted at me came from, I surely don't know, but it has nothing to do with what I posted. Hopefully others are able to appreciate having the correct information offered, and that was my only goal.

I opted to withhold an opinion previously because, as it relates to this thread specifically, I am not sure what my position is. I don't think that I can agree with deporting American citizens for the criminal actions that their parents chose to undertake. I think that it is something that should be discussed in an attempt to examine that amendment to the Constitution to see if a new change needs to be made to the Constitution to prevent the abuse of the 14th that we are seeing now.

Take care,
Cindi

In Malaysia if a foreigner, on a work permit, is found to be pregnant on Malaysian soil they automatically get deported back to their country. When this happens sometimes the women will flush the babies so they are not deported. I witnessed one case when I was visiting a factory there.

I guess Malaysia does this so the babies don't get automatic citizenship.

Originally posted by Glencairn
reply to post by antonia

 

The fact that you have to lie to maintain your argument, claim that I have posted things that I never posted, and attribute motives and agendas to me that I have never espoused is confusing to me. I haven't offered any opinion on the matter, so the fact that you are making claims as to my motives, opinions, and agenda is all on you and cut from whole cloth.

My goal was not to say illegals don't get welfare. My goal was state most illegals probably don't get it. I did say they do not get SSI/Federal Medicare generally as that's what the Social Security Office says. This is not included in the welfare rolls as Social Security is not considered a part of it. IF most illegals are getting it as I stated before the numbers of Hispanics on the rolls should be a lot higher. I'm certain fraud does occur because I have seen instances of ID theft in which people's checks were stolen. But if 7 to 20 million people were doing that I figure a lot of people would notice they aren't getting their check every month. Some of the post wasn't directed at you. I thought that would be fairly obvious.

I gave the percentages as they stand. As i stated in the bit , there are 46 million LEGAL Hispanics and between 7 to 20 million illegals. There are a little over 5 million Hispanics on welfare. If most illegals got welfare that number would be much higher. Logically it can be inferred most of them are not receiving it.

As i said before, if most illegals got some form of welfare that number would be a lot higher.

I'm sorry that you can't just accept that you were mistaken and learn when presented with correct information.

Hey, if you can present information showing me that most illegals are on welfare then go for it. That is the argument of the original poster I responded to.

Take care,
Cindi

Don't include your well wishes if you wish to call my a liar.