What is the "soul" and what happens when you die?

reply to post by Alesanjin

I read your thread Alesanjin, you are a sensitive or a receiver. Your awareness is greater than the majority. You would probably make a very good medium.

One part of the spirit world are constantly on the lookout for those who can communicate.

There is good reason to think that the "soul" is that which we share in common with every other human being who has ever lived and who will ever live on Earth.

While the brain may be a squishy lump of tissue, a gooey glob of electrolytic neurons and neural synapses, there is no evidence that the brain contains all that that we are or ever will be.

This is where the typical atheist argument always falls apart. The typical atheist will argue that the brain merely conducts electrical impulses, firing networks of neurons on myriad neural paths. End of story.

Your typical atheist cannot, however, explain how this gummy bucket of goo can conceive of a soul just as readily as it can conceive of the scientific method. On the one hand, atheists and agnostics want to believe that a redundant routine recently invented by the human brain (the scientific method) is infallible; indeeds, many of them contend that the organ that conjured up the scientific method is otherwise utterly fallible and cannot be trusted.

This one-sided bias doesn't make sense in anyone's book. The human brain can't be a useless blob EXCEPT for the scientific method, can it? The fact that our civilization has evolved and advanced for thousands of years longer than the scientific method has existed should be proof enough.

The fact is that everything the human brain can conceive is equally valid — our total life experience is thereby valid. If we are going to only accept a few shallow accomplishments of the brain and condemn the rest, then we have invalidated our total life experience, including Spirituality.

And, as even atheists must concede, human Spirituality has accomplished far more than our Science ever has. Our civilizations rise up on spirituality — we grow when we have hope and view the world as a spiritual place.

When our civilizations abandon spirituality, they invariably collapse, and even Science cannot save them. Consider the evidence...

In the 20th Century alone, our technological prowess expanded exponentially; as far as we know, no civilization has ever achieved this level of technological sophistication. We advanced scientifically in the 20th Century more than the sum total of Mankind's previous existence on this planet. So vast is our scientific knowledge now, we are questioning the validity of religion and spirituality in general. Spirituality is under attack by our imagined scientific superiority.

But, wait... Everything that is wrong in the world today is directly related to our scientific arrogance — weapons of mass destruction, overpopulation, manmade climate change, manmade immune disorders and disease, the instantaneous communication of hatred and fear and despair around the world, for a few glaring examples. These are all the products of our scientific growth — not one of our scientific advances comes without a withering cost to our environment and to our species.

We are collapsing because our Science is half-baked, at best, and undeniably fallible, at worst. This is the evidence that our Science is no more valid than the Spirituality that guided us for thousands of years and raised us up out of the swamps.

Spirituality that raised up our civilizations WITHOUT destroying the planet itself.

The evidence is clear... Mankind's Spirituality — our conceptions of soul and afterlife and hope — has been far more constructive than has our Science. Of course, we shouldn't abandon Science, not just yet — we may need it to undo the horrible mess it's created already.

But, until Science proves itself useful and constructive in the long-term, we should hold tight to our Spirituality, which has a far better track record as human concepts go.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by kennyb72


Haha, I don't know whether to take that as a compliment, or bad news

I've noticed that in the past 6-9 months, when I'm trying to go to sleep, I often see random "pictures" in huge detail, whereas, when I think of pictures in my mind, day-to-day, they're very vague and blurry. Also, I'm very awake when this happens. But, it only happens whilst trying to go to sleep.

I mean seeing, as if I could touch it and smell it e.t.c. lol, I know this is very off-topic, but, since you brought up the sensitive/medium aspect, I figured I'd bring it up.

Some of the images I've seen are two men sitting at a bar, staring at me, whilst signaling with their hands to come closer, and somehow talk.

Another is being in a basement, looking down where the floorboards have been taken up for something, and seeing a jack-russel run away when I look up. There was also a leaky pipe, which for some reason drew my attention away.

Another, was a mosaic. A very intricate picture, full of numbers and letters, and words, but, I couldn't for the life of me decipher it, and the more I tried to focus, the more it slipped away.

lol, it sounds like balls, I know. But, unless you've seen it through my mind, or experienced similar, it's hard to describe and believe.

Still, I'm pretty sure I'm going way off topic from the OP here

Haha, it's nice to have someone to discuss this with for a change!

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Alesanjin]

I think it's electromagnetic.

second line

This is interesting to share as it may be something nobody else has had the chance to experience and tell.

My soul left my body and I felt it leave.

It wasnt a very nice feeling as it kind of hurts and you feel like youre going to die. But you dont. My soul was very beautiful and she needed to return to light. It sounds strange, but my boyfriend at the time was lying next to me and I grabbed him and said.. Im going to die. He felt my soul go through him as it left my body. He said it was the most beautiful feeling.

So, maybe we do have some kind of being inside of us that guides us and steers us... hopefully in the direction of the one who created it. God. My soul got to leave as I had aligned my heart, mind and soul to the same level of beauty. I didnt need a guide. I felt like a vacant block for a while.

reply to post by Donnie Darko



The spirit is electromagnetic.It is around the body, not within. The soul is within the body. Any sense that the soul leaves the body is illusory.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Nice Rant. Unfortunately, the very fact that your post exists is testament to your hypocrisy and shallow rhetoric. You gladly embrace the fruits of science when it benefits your own self-centered ends, then try to hamstring that process when it pokes and prods into areas you want to remain blissfully ignorant about. You know science works... you see it every day. It permeates your life with technology and glimpses of the majesty of universe. You know how effective it is.... and I think you're scared.


I have no issues with those who promote spirituality as a path to a better life, and condemn science as a distraction from their spiritual path. I only take issue with those who use the fruits of science and technology to condemn science and technology. I have no need to speak out against the former, you see. They silence themselves by being true to their convictions and turning away from technology. I can respect the Amish, at least, for standing by their convictions.

It is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving, it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. ~ Thomas Paine

So go. If you have a shred of dignity and honesty in your condemnation, then leave science and it's benefits behind. Leave behind the internet, your computer, your heated home, your clean water, your safe food, your modern medicine, your weapons, your telecommunication... even the clothes on your back if they contain polyester mix. Leave your technology behind and enter the wilderness. Let your spirituality keep you warm in the winter snow. Let your spirituality fill your belly. Let your spirituality heal your illnesses. Let your spirituality defend you from predators. Let your spirituality provide for you, using only the tools that spirituality built. And howl.... howl as loud as you can so as many people as possible can hear the virtues of what a life lived with only the tools that spirituality has brought you. Of how much better your life is without the "problems" and "decay" of science and knowledge.

I'll keep an ear listening to the wind. Though I suspect it will be through the fruits of scientific discovery, built on the graves of old delusions, that I'll see your reply come. You won't, because you know what awaits you. And if you don't, I have no doubt that soon you WOULD know fully the reason why spirituality is so focused on a blissful life after death. Because a reality built only with the tools of spirituality is, to paraphrase Hobbes, "Nasty, Poor, Brutish, and Short."

As for me, I am not an atheist. I do believe in god, but I'm not such a coward and hypocrite as to deny the very works of that god in favor of comfortable fantasies. Even if it appears that one of those works, was not some soul for which happily ever after awaits.

If you want to go back to the cave, then do so. I won't stop you. But I want to go to the stars.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by Lasheic]

reply to post by Lasheic

Why wouldn't the spiritually motivated make use of this technology.

We have contributed enough to it through taxes and overpriced junk.

Please stay away from the stars, they do not belong to scientists. I will see you there much sooner in spirit than I will in flesh. Technology has leaped exponentially over the last fifty years which happens to coincide with the decline of humanity into a selfish, materialistic world.

Our true nature as spiritual beings has allowed us to reach this point in time. Science is all about ego and it's greatest achievement's to date is to create the most devastating weapons.

I will see you on the other side(eventually)and we can discuss whether you think that your primitive science has any place there at all.

reply to post by LususNaturae


Your soul isn't just chemical impulses, because chemical impulses are actually thoughts and emotions and you can control those both at will with a little practice. So what translates "your" decision?

Yeah, I went way off topic, also; but my first post was just sort of a preamble.

I've been "dead" twice in my life, so I feel qualified to speak to the OP.

First time was in 1981, when a drunk driver plowed into me head-on in an 85 mph collision. The vehicles looked like a missile attack. I was extracted from the mess and rushed to the Texas Medical Center. My C1 vertebra (the "Atlas" vertebra at the base of my skull) was fractured in 2 places, meaning that a section of that vertebra was loose and liable to shift — any such shift into the brain stem would interrupt involuntary autoreflexes (such as respiration and heartbeat) and could mean instant death.

I was immobilized, trussed up with traction cables, moved very carefully to the Intensive Care Unit, and that's when I died.

The initial sensation was terrifying, it was like being strapped to the nose of a rocket. I couldn't see anything, but I had the sensation of hurtling through space. Through my terror, I heard a voice say "Do not be afraid." My fear was gone instantly. As soon as I released my fear, the acceleration abruptly ended, and I was in a room... but not any room I'd ever seen before. It wasn't the hospital, it wasn't ICU.

I looked around, and I saw that this room had no entrance and no exit. The walls were made of dark green stone, and I made a point of going over there and very closely examining the stone — it had a very finely-faceted crystalline surface. I couldn't identify the mineral, but I thought perhaps it was jade.

Also, this room was illuminated, but I don't know how — there was no obvious source of illumination.

I became aware of another presence in the room. It was always behind me, no matter which way I turned. It was pushing me, physically shoving me around. This presence took me up and hurled me at the far wall of the room, and I passed right through it like smoke.

On the other side of the wall was tactile blackness. Solid, oppressive blackness. I was just suspended in this blackness, I guess, but I couldn't tell for how long. Interesting, I could very slightly discern some movement in the blackness — black things moving around in a black void. It became a disagreeable experience and I wanted to be somewhere else. Anywhere else.

As soon as I thought about being elsewhere, I was dumped into a careening starscape. I was moving through it. There was a thin, translucent shell around me, or an envelope of rippling colors, and I could see through it, see the stars moving past me.

Now, I understood Einsteinian physics back then, and what I was seeing was impossible according to Einsteinian physics. I was moving through the stars as easily as swimming across a pond. In order to see these stars changing position relative to one another as I "passed" them, my velocity would have to be thousands of times the speed of light.

Not possible. Yet happening.

It was very pleasant and liberating to fly through the universe like this, but I wondered about instantaneous travel across vast distances. As soon as I thought about that, the starscape changed. Different stars, different galazies. I was still in space, but I had just skipped to another location in space. A looooooong skip.

I was starting to get the hang of this when I became aware of the presence behind me once more. I guess I willed myself to stop accelerating, and there I was in a perfectly motionless 360° starscape. It was mind-blowing.

Turning around to face the presence for the first time, I was kind of amazed to see that it was a glowing orange orb with reddish corona, kind of like an intelligent star, if that makes any sense. I mean, it was like looking at an orange star up close, but I felt that it was looking at me, too.

I said, simply, "What do you want?" The glowing orb shuddered a little and began drifting to my right.

Then ZOWEE!

Back to reality!

I had just been resuscitated in ICU, and I came back fully conscious and talking. One of the ICU nurses said, "What did he say?"

I said, "What do you want?"

They decided I was delirious and put observers on me 24/7, just to make sure I didn't "slip away" from them again.

Now here's the WEIRD part...

A week later, the chief Cranial dude came in with my latest test results. It was just me and him. Me in traction, him sitting kind of resignedly in an armchair next to my private bed. He told me the vertebra fracture was healed.

We just sat there for a while, both equally stunned.

Now, this is one of those things that does happen at the Texas Medical Center, and the general public will say man, that's incredible! But the people on the inside, the hardcore physicians, the s.c.i.e.n.t.i.s.t.s., the cranial specialists — they call it a miracle.

Which says to me that the guys who are right there on the ground at the point of life and death, the medical experts, they still acknowledge miracles.

And Science in general should learn from that.

— Doc Velocity







[edit on 1/12/2010 by Doc Velocity]

I think no one really knows what happens after death....

scientifically whats happens to the best of our knowledge when someone dies a massive amount of Dimethyltriptamine is produced in the pineal gland (third eye).......

this is the same compound released when one is in deep r.e.m sleep..
and also is produced 49 days after conception, and massive amounts are pumped into the brain when one is born.....

this stuff literally transcends one into a higher dimension, a state of non physical existence, the dreamworld if you will......

it has also been theorised and conclusive studies have shown a link between high doses of Dimethyltriptamine and the very phenomena of alien abduction.. as this chemical truly allows one to cross over...

Dr Rick Strassman conducted clinical studies with this chemical in drug form, may i point out the brain produces this chemical nightly... it regulates your bodies functions, your neuro transmitters and your bodies bicyclical functions..

aerialcircus.files.wordpress.com...

[edit on 12-1-2010 by tripulation666]

Originally posted by tripulation666
scientifically whats happens to the best of our knowledge when someone dies a massive amount of Dimethyltriptamine is produced in the pineal gland (third eye).......

this is the same compound released when one is in deep r.e.m sleep..
and also is produced 49 days after conception, and massive amounts are pumped into the brain when one is born.....

this stuff literally transcends one into a higher dimension, a state of non physical existence, the dreamworld if you will......

it has also been theorised and conclusive studies have shown a link between high doses of Dimethyltriptamine and the very phenomena of alien abduction.. as this chemical truly allows one to cross over...

Dr Rick Strassman conducted clinical studies with this chemical in drug form, may i point out the brain produces this chemical nightly... it regulates your bodies functions, your neuro transmitters and your bodies bicyclical functions..

aerialcircus.files.wordpress.com...

[edit on 12-1-2010 by tripulation666]

i believe more science then religion. because science does not rely on belief only as religion do!...

Where do you go after you die?

Where does a knot go after it is untied?

Originally posted by 2Unknown
i believe more science then religion. because science does not rely on belief only as religion do!...

You believe more in Science because Religion is too reliant on belief...??

Huh?

Yeah, let's get that belief in God outta here, it's just cluttering up the field for those of us who want to believe in Science instead.

(audience is stunned into fits of laughter)

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 1/12/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Alasian
The problem with discovering if the soul exists is that we perceive the world by our physical senses. We think with our brains, which is a physical medium that receives impulses from other physical mediums.

So if a supernatural force called the sould exists it is probably impossible to perceive it through natural means.

Therefore, since I don't believe in anything supernatural, and the soul has not been something I can physically perceive (at least not so far), this provides to me enough constitution for my logic to disaprove of the existance of soul.

This might sound pretty funny, but in a recent "Ghost Adventures" episode, they used a new piece of equipment , a special camera that noone had used or made before that shows much further back into the infra red and much farther in and past the ultra violet range of the light spectrum ( no other full spectrum cameras yet made covered this range), and the camera picked up a blob of purple light energy that moved around and appeared like it was really "seeing" a spirit... I believe that it really was and it wasn't a hoax, but I'm sure many people would not believe it. I think the science exists for being able to document the soul with devices like that special full spectrum camera and maybe over time or in the near future it could be proven, just my opinion of course, but it is pretty interesting the things people are trying to do with technology lately, even if it is a ghost/entertainment type of show.

Everyone in this thread should study some about dualism, identity theory, functionalism, intentionality and so on. They are all philosophies talking about the mind, (dualism is about the soul actually) but the soul deal is closely connected to this and they also talk a great deal about the soul.

Basically, philosophy has proven through words and logic, a long time ago, that mind and soul does not exists, they are merely the fantasy of the brain.

So everyone, say goodbye to your souls, they don't exist. Don't believe in the supernatural. It is called SUPERnatural because it is not in the natural, it is only in our heads. Everything in the universe is natural, something supernatural (i.e. the Christian God) is outside the universe (i.e. does not exist).

If you want to find out, I suggest you begin by meeting Jesus.

Here is the formula for meeting Jesus:

John 14:21

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

So, be a very righteous person. Then He will come to be with you. When He does, ask Him if there is a soul.....and what happens to it.

Or, you could read the Bible...

[edit on 1/12/2010 by Jim Scott]

I suggest you do a search on the death of Yogananda, then on maha samadhi.

learn what kind of control over the soul some individuals since millenia have managed to reach.

There are lots of (very good) literature about it (just forget the western paradigm about life&death:those are spiritual accomplishments, not just mere religious dogma).

Maha Samadhi is based and real, but kept unknown in the western world...

reply to post by Doc Velocity

First time was in 1981, when a drunk driver plowed into me head-on in an 85 mph collision.

While I'm sorry to hear you had such tragic experiences that brought you close to death, and I'm sure what you experienced felt very real - perhaps even indistinguishable from reality - what I find troubling about your account is this...

I looked around, and I saw that this room had no entrance and no exit. The walls were made of dark green stone, and I made a point of going over there and very closely examining the stone — it had a very finely-faceted crystalline surface. I couldn't identify the mineral, but I thought perhaps it was jade.

If the body is material, then it can interact with the material world. Indeed, we observe this regularly. When someone speaks to you, and you hear it; all of the energy which is transmitted can be modeled and accounted for predictably. It doesn't disappear. In fact, this has been so consistent with repeated observation that it's never been violated - and is considered a law of physics. Yet how does the immaterial interact with the material? This is something that has never been observed or explained.

In light of which, how is it that your experience can be described in sensory information, despite missing two key elements. A physical body with sensory organs, or physical stimuli. You say the walls looked like jade, and they sound beautiful, but the color of jade doesn't actually exist. No color exists, except in perception. It's a trick of the mind, because the eyes aren't of a high enough resolution to detect individual photon wavelengths. It's not accurate to reality, but it's useful for perception. When you mix a can of red paint into a can of blue paint... you don't get purple. You get a mixture of photon wavelengths which the brain perceives as red or blue... but not individually, and your brain mixes the colors. Take a spectrograph which is sensitive enough, and it'll read the proper wavelengths.

Additionally, would it be safe to assume that you had full color vision? In reality, we're colorblind beyond our immediate focal point, which is a lot smaller than you might think. Nearly all the color you see beyond the focal point to peripheral vision is merely remembered color which your brain applies to the appropriate area, and of which you're constantly sampling.

Perhaps a video with a few examples of optical illusions can explain.



How is it, that an immaterial soul can "see" not only as the physical body sees... but is subject to the same limitations and operations as sensory perception tied to the material brain? Further, how would you even remember any of this stuff if it happened to an immaterial soul - and we know that memories are stored in the brain. How? Because we can read them.

And let me ask you another question.... have you ever had a dream that seemed so real that it was indistinguishable from reality? I have on occasion. Even lucid dreams wherein I would be snapped out what I was doing, only to find myself in bed. Why shouldn't that dream feel extremely real though? After all, it's the same brain which perceives the reality I'm in now.

And while I don't wish to make slight of how damned near close to death you really did come, you didn't "Die". Not unless your EEG stopped picking up activity. Your brain was still very much alive, and after loss of heart function; unless CPR is administered quickly - the brain will start to asphyxiate and die cell by cell by cell. Once you're brain dead, you're gone. Nobody comes back. The closest we have are the exceedingly rare cases wherein the EKG or EEG was unable to detect extremely low-level function which later evidence indicated was there. Most of these occur in cases of extreme hypothermia.

Which says to me that the guys who are right there on the ground at the point of life and death, the medical experts, they still acknowledge miracles.

Of course they do, as do we all. Though miracle can mean very different things in very different contexts. The birth of a child is still a miracle, but it doesn't break any of the laws of physics or chemistry. Words don't just have one meaning, even when they can be used in similar contexts. After all, is it really a miracle that idiot down in the mail room has kept his job for so long? Many would claim that Obama's election within the lifetime of those who marched with Martin L. King jr was miraculous. I think that the fact that it's possible for a child in Uganda Africa to get on the internet and talk to us here a miracle.

But is any of this magic? Of course not. Those doctors, stunned and amazed as though they may be at the unexpected and perhaps even unexplainable recovery you made, did not once ever put down their medical equipment or disengage their medical training in favor of "spiritual healing techniques". Though they say they see miracles happen regularly, when your heart stopped - what was it that saved your life? The paddle or the prayer?

I understand the power and magnitude your experience had, but I see nothing in the tale which indicates magic, spiritualism, or life after death.