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What is the "soul" and what happens when you die?

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posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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Of course, the whole topic of 'soul' might seem like a stupid concept to talk about to those who dabble in fact and not "fiction" so to speak, but I notice a lot of people who have occult, spiritual or emotional interests rather than hardcore facts about soul.

My speculation, probably not the most unusual way to think of a soul, to be honest, is the chemical impulses in our brain. I believe it was Descartes or someone who said "The brain is the organ with which we think we think". Now some of you are going to say 'You think that the soul is just chemical impulses?'. Why not? It's not, after all, JUST chemical impulses. That the chemical impulses are there and are happening is a miracle to begin with, and I don't see any reason I should think there is anything MORE supernatural than that. It's all energy, and when you die, lots of potential energy gets lost with it. What comes of that energy though, when we die, is anyones guess. I don't believe that we simply 'stop existing' when we die, our corpse still lays there, and all our brain function, while it has stopped, something had to have happened to all that excess energy.

I don't believe that we stay concious, but that our consciousness transcends OUR conciousness. It's hard to explain what I mean, but for all the potential energy that we have in our brains, we can't grasp for what or why that potential exists in the first place, and when we die, our conciousness so to speak, must be freed, or otherwise transferred into the universe in some way, whether it be from maggots feeding on you, or decaying in your coffin, or if you have your remains burnt you'll become scattered throughout the earth or confined into a mug. Whatever happens after you die doesn't make it irrelevant, for it's still YOU, for all extents and purposes, a corpse isn't simply a corpse, it's a body which represents all the experiences and thoughts and potential that existed within that body.

Obviously, I'm not religious, but maybe some buddhist or someone can enlighten me on these ideas. BTW i'm not too fond of the new age movement, and while buddhism surely is an interesting religion, i still consider it ... false. Chis and chakras and past lives in the buddhist sense just dont sit well with me.




posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by LususNaturae
 


Well that is the sixty four million dollar question as they say. If you can find conrete proof then you can end a lot of the conflict and misery on this planet in on step.

I am all for exploring such a topic, in fact I think it is critical but I can't add anything of value as I am still here and don't have any direct experience nor any special skills to give me insight. I am really interested in the thoughts and conclusions of others though. Finding out what happens must be the number one question for everyone over and above everything else.

I just hope that some logic or terms which I can relate too can be used, as I find somethings in this vein switch me off instantly.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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The soul:

A structured pattern of energy, protected by body, most of the time. the body provides, energy, storage capacity, and neuronal architecture. Such a structure can be loosely or tightly organized, usually dependant upon age, but not always.

death:

Loss of the current protective housing, primary energy source, and most local storage and processing power. Structural loss occurs over time when not housed in a body, but newborns don't have all the support structures built yet, so it's a hard fit sometimes. A loosely organized soul loses far more that a tightly organized one.

rebirth:

Settling into a new body with a structured pattern of energy, or what's left of it after exposure to the elements.

Takes awhile to remember stuff from one time to another.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by Bunker or Bust
 


I mean, I won't lie. I have absolutely no credentials to talk about what happens after we die. I've never had a Near Death Experience... although I've read alot about Near-Death Experiences.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:24 PM
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The problem with discovering if the soul exists is that we perceive the world by our physical senses. We think with our brains, which is a physical medium that receives impulses from other physical mediums.

So if a supernatural force called the sould exists it is probably impossible to perceive it through natural means.

Therefore, since I don't believe in anything supernatural, and the soul has not been something I can physically perceive (at least not so far), this provides to me enough constitution for my logic to disaprove of the existance of soul.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by LususNaturae
 


I am sure you won't I have read a bit on the topic also, I like to plan ahead and am not keen on surprises


Apache gave an interesting take on things but it implies a loop, so my first logic question is... where do the new people come from? Also does our energy degrade over time or split (might account for the new people). What happens when we run out?

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Bunker or Bust]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by Alasian
The problem with discovering if the soul exists is that we perceive the world by our physical senses. We think with our brains, which is a physical medium that receives impulses from other physical mediums.

So if a supernatural force called the sould exists it is probably impossible to perceive it through natural means.

Therefore, since I don't believe in anything supernatural, and the soul has not been something I can physically perceive (at least not so far), this provides to me enough constitution for my logic to disaprove of the existance of soul.


Well allow me to poke a little at your logic.
There are X-Rays in space. We cannot, physically, without super-natural means, observe X-Rays. We need machines which will perceive them for us. This does not mean that X-Rays do not exist.
Okay, how about this: You cannot observe, physically, the distinct shapes that a drop of water makes in the few instances in which the water isn't on the ground, but that doesn't mean those distinct shapes don't exist... here's what I mean



but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

But again, these two are real physical things which we are able to observe now, while the 'spirit' or 'soul' remains elusive to us.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Bunker or Bust
 

My view is that, There is just the one consciousness, fractured into individual spirits, a holographic fractal, that is evolving and growing in wisdom.

New souls are continually being spawned as an expression of the universe. Each new soul goes through a purification process until it accumulates the knowledge of everything and then after many incarnations returns to the originator of the one consciousness.

You could say omnipotent evolution.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by LususNaturae
 




What is the "soul" and what happens when you die?



Well, don't you remember what it was like before you were born..?

Nothingness - or maybe your memory isn't as good as mine...





So, when you die I would assume nothingness comes back...kinda sad, but at least it's familiar, huh..?





posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by kennyb72
 


Based on that how many real "people" are there if you remove all the fractal splits? Interesting thought.. If we are all from a limited source with the same thought then why so much conflict in the world? Something must have gone wrong?

So you could in theory meet yourself, would you think the same thoughts at the same time? Interesting



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by LususNaturae
 


A Near Death Experience is exactly just that ---- near death.
In other words, the person came very close to dying but didn't actually die.
It's not to be misinterpreted as dying and coming back to life again.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Bunker or Bust
 

Every fractal spirit is unique, and it has to learn to grow from nothing to everything. The spirit grows through experience and over many lives. At any one time on earth "the schoolyard" there are spirits who are young and others that are old.

Some never have to reincarnate on Earth but still have to reincarnate back into the spirit plane. There are multiple planes we have to journey through to complete the cycle.

Eventually you become God or whatever you wish to call the one eternal spirit
When that happens and you refer to that voice you see as you. That "you" will be everything.

As I have stated in other posts, there is no rush, eternity is a very long time.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by happygolucky
 




Well, don't you remember what it was like before you were born..?

Nothingness - or maybe your memory isn't as good as mine...


So, when exactly did we come into existence?

And why are we not existing right now?

We should be "nothing" by now.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by kennyb72
 


Interesting, I need to think about it a bit more.

Would be a bit lonely being god, the single source. Not sure I would like that, I like company..



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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My Stepfather was an athiest for years,One day he gave his life to Jesus Christ and he told me that only once in all his life did he consider there being life after death and that was when he was in Vietnam,he was a helicopter pilot and he flew in the Medics to pick up wounded soldiers .One day his plane was shot down and he told me that he left his body and was just hovering over it watching them declare him dead and they even started zipping the body bag shut.He then ended up quickly back in his body (scared the crap out of everyone who was there).



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by kennyb72
 


I think you have got it right. I mean, ive been thinking along the same lines for about 3 years now. One question I have for you then is:

The Ultimate conciousness, from which we all derrive, does it create the Universe and multitude of realities for us to learn? Or are there two seperate entities, one being the conciousness, the other being the realities that exist?

Cheers, Brad



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by Toughiv
 




The Ultimate conciousness, from which we all derrive, does it create the Universe and multitude of realities for us to learn? Or are there two seperate entities, one being the conciousness, the other being the realities that exist?


It just depends on what you see as reality. What if reality is simply a persistent/consistent illusion. Take away your five senses and replace them with with some one else's five senses and you would still be you, but to look in the mirror you would be someone else.

Swap out your memories with that other person and you will still say "I AM", but now you would be someone else completely.

Life is an illusion provided to you by your physical body. Once you part company with your body, you become aware of who you really are and at what stage in the path to oneness you are.



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by Bunker or Bust
 

Maybe the secret to life, the universe and everything is the desire to not be alone.
Maybe we are all Gods imaginary friends.


[edit on 11-1-2010 by kennyb72]



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by kennyb72
 


Now your twisting my melon around! Well one thing we can all count on is we will all find out one way or the other!



posted on Jan, 11 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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Right, those that have said that this reality is interpreted an understood by the physical body are quite correct. How could you argue for anything else? Your "consciousness" can be seen to be a bunch of chemical reactions taking place in the brain, the brain being a very complex organ that just so happened to come about through millions of years of evolution.

The way im going to argue for the Soul's existance is by arguing that LIFE is somthing divine/created. My defintion for a soul is not some magical thing that inhabits your physical body and then leaves it and floats away. Rather, if we look at life, a physical body comes into existance, goes about its business of securing resources, developing skills, finds a mate and passes on its gene's. During which they physical body experiences emotions, goals, tests of will, develops a identity, character and set of values of how we "should live". The soul then, is the observer, by which i mean, the conciousness that perceives all of these happenings, feels the emotions and registers all of these things.

We can always reduce arguments to how the said happen. For example, you experience emotions because of chemical reactions and impulses sent through your brain. However, what I am trying to argue is that no matter what life form you observe, the basic goal is for that life form to further its gene. Why is that? It is this RANDOMNESS of LIFE that suggests to me, to be something more than just chemical reactions and physics.

What you should ask is where did life come from? We can argue for evolution yes, but where did the primary source of life come from? "an asteroid with primordial ooze". That response has to be the biggest cop out ive ever heard in my life. Not only "where did life come from" but "why does life always try to live?"

What i believe is there is something about life, of which i am not sure, that makes it special. ALL FORMS OF LIFE EVEN TREES. However, the concept of Soul is where a form of life is capable of experience. We look at trees, they are not SENTIENT life form, which is something that can take in sense data and interpret this data, that is experience. Dogs, cats, mice, humans etc can all interpret sense data. It is this interpretation that gives rise to a independant observer, or a individual conciousness that experiences. It is this that is what is meant by a Soul.

Ok, so really we could just say that the Soul is still in the physical realm and does not suggest more than just the Universe is amazing. Ok right I ask you, when you read this word > table < you interpret that meaning of that word and have a concept of what a >table< is. That concept that you have in your mind now, is that concept somewhere in this physical realm? Can you show me the particular chemical reaction that shows you thinking of the concept of a table? I dont think you can.

Therefore, it is on this similar level in which the "observer" i have talked about resides. Connected to the physical realm through our sense yes, but it is life, experiencing and observing.

Let me know what you think needs more justification, ill try. But what we must all understand is that there is no CERTAIN knowledge, other than knowledge via definition. I.e. I KNOW that you CANNOT have an unmarried bachelor. However, how can you prove that the colour you see as blue is actually blue? You cannot.

Cheers, Brad.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Toughiv]



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