What is the "soul" and what happens when you die?

I personally feel that the soul is energy. Since energy cannot be created, destroyed, we continue to exist before and after death. I think our consciousness and memories are stored inside this energy and is passed on to another plane of existence upon death. This is just wild speculation since I haven't died yet, but it makes sense to me. Some souls remain in this reality for reasons unknown. This would explain reincarnation stories. Some may just remain where they were. This would explain ghosts. Some move on to another dimension. This would explain heaven/hell of afterlife. I hold onto the belief that whatever a person feels will happen to their soul upon death is what will happen. If you think there is nothing, then you get nothing. If you think you will come back as a dog, then you will come back as a dog. I believe that I will be amongst my friends and family and there will be a keg of Stella Artois that never ends. I hope I am right.

I know absolutely nothing about physics, but I too have studied thousands of NDE's. I can also provide a bit of personal testimony to something I witnessed last Monday.

My daughter was in a terrible accident last Monday and one life flight and two hospitals later, she was finally stabilized in OSU's ICU. As, I was sitting there, I saw what can only be described as a mist or vapour about the size of a basketball (but not uniform) hovering over her left shoulder/left side of face. My eyes are good and I know what I saw.

I'm a very spiritual person and I lean on the Word of God for my own personal understanding. So, I asked myself "Is there a precedent for this very thing I saw in the Bible?" The answer is yes. Jesus' younger James, said "What is your life? You are but a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes." If we just switch the word energy for the word mist (in some translations vapour) I think that is the foundation to build on concerning physics for death of the physical body and more importantly, the afterlife.

I'm not the first to see this energy form. It is a very common occurrence, with not only hospice workers but nurses and doctors in general. I naturally associate the words vapour/mist to water but these seem to quickly break down into individual molecules rapidly. But when we talk about the soul as an energy, I think we are dealing with a binding mechanism that is patterned after the same things found in our universe. For example, many NDE'ers report that after they are out of body, they realize a tunnel is opening before them, with a pin dot of light far off in it's distance and they describe it as an actual magnetic feeling where you are pulled (not of your own free will) into this light.

As far as patterns binding the soul/spirit, I tend to think it's something like our dna double helix or even the infinity symbol. This energy form at first is just that part of us that thinks, but as we go into the light we once again take on a form that vibrates on a new level with a new type of light.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by Myrtales Instinct]

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


is your daughter OK?

reply to post by network dude


No. She passed Thursday evening. I have a thread on it at BTS, in the Spirituality forum under the title "Talitha koum." You are probably wondering why I'm here posting - I just need to keep busy at this point. Thanks for asking about her, that meant a lot to me.

Originally posted by Alasian
Basically, philosophy has proven through words and logic, a long time ago, that mind and soul does not exists, they are merely the fantasy of the brain.

There you go, we have the final word on the matter.

But wait... The people who rendered this verdict were not supreme beings, they were simply using their human brains to come up with an explanation.

And, as every good atheist knows, aside from inventing the scientific method, the human brain is just a useless blob of tissue. So, that means philosophy is an invalid concept, and the opinions of philosophers are invalid, also. They have no hard evidence to support their philosophies, therefore they are useless.

Isn't this great!? Because we all have human brains, with more or less the same capacity for fantasizing or passing judgment, then we're all equally qualified to condemn human concepts!

Sorry, critical thinkers, your methods of rationalization are invalid.

(audience murmurs in agreement)

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Lasheic
Nice Rant. Unfortunately, the very fact that your post exists is testament to your hypocrisy and shallow rhetoric. You gladly embrace the fruits of science when it benefits your own self-centered ends, blah blah blah bullshît mumbo jumbo blah...

Kiss my ass. I "gladly embrace the fruits of science"?? What sort of inane jabbering is that? You know nothing about me, you have no idea of what I nor anyone else "gladly embraces," and your own life and philosophy are as shallow as piss on a tile floor.

I cannot be overruled, for I have a human brain, which is the ultimate authority on itself.



But seriously, people, you are perfectly welcomed to use "the fruits of science" (whatever the hell that is). I have yet to see a "fruit of science" that hasn't harmed the world in some way, but you're welcomed to use these "fruits" and simultaneously complain about Science. It doesn't make you a hypocrite at all.

Let's say an anti-gun Lefty goes out and buys a sniper rifle and assassinates the president of the sniper rifle company, whoever that is. Is the anti-gun Lefty now a hypocrite, as well? No, he's not, because he went against his personal philosophy to achieve a higher goal, presumably in the interest of all Mankind. He was a crazy-assed liberal Lefty — as most terrorists and bomb-throwers and fanatical assassins are — but he thought he was working for a higher good, and that's all that counts, in the end. I mean, he's not going to be remembered for anything else, so he defined himself in his final act. No hypocrisy whatsoever.

Just so, if I want to use the "fruits of science" (e.g. computer technology) to take pot shots at Science itself, I only hope to define myself in debunking scientific dogma, not in using science to defeat Science, which scientists might consider hypocrisy.

The hypocrites are the one-sided defenders of Science, the self-righteous morons who discount every concept of the human brain EXCEPT Science.

Actually, Science is one of the worst concepts, because we haven't learned how to reverse the consequences of our Science before we implement its "fruits"... Our Science is only half-baked at its very best.

— Doc Velocity








[edit on 1/12/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by Doc Velocity

 

Nice Rant. Unfortunately, the very fact that your post exists is testament to your hypocrisy and shallow rhetoric. You gladly embrace the fruits of science when it benefits your own self-centered ends, then try to hamstring that process when it pokes and prods into areas you want to remain blissfully ignorant about. You know science works... you see it every day. It permeates your life with technology and glimpses of the majesty of universe. You know how effective it is.... and I think you're scared.


I have no issues with those who promote spirituality as a path to a better life, and condemn science as a distraction from their spiritual path. I only take issue with those who use the fruits of science and technology to condemn science and technology. I have no need to speak out against the former, you see. They silence themselves by being true to their convictions and turning away from technology. I can respect the Amish, at least, for standing by their convictions.

It is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving, it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. ~ Thomas Paine

So go. If you have a shred of dignity and honesty in your condemnation, then leave science and it's benefits behind. Leave behind the internet, your computer, your heated home, your clean water, your safe food, your modern medicine, your weapons, your telecommunication... even the clothes on your back if they contain polyester mix. Leave your technology behind and enter the wilderness. Let your spirituality keep you warm in the winter snow. Let your spirituality fill your belly. Let your spirituality heal your illnesses. Let your spirituality defend you from predators. Let your spirituality provide for you, using only the tools that spirituality built. And howl.... howl as loud as you can so as many people as possible can hear the virtues of what a life lived with only the tools that spirituality has brought you. Of how much better your life is without the "problems" and "decay" of science and knowledge.

I'll keep an ear listening to the wind. Though I suspect it will be through the fruits of scientific discovery, built on the graves of old delusions, that I'll see your reply come. You won't, because you know what awaits you. And if you don't, I have no doubt that soon you WOULD know fully the reason why spirituality is so focused on a blissful life after death. Because a reality built only with the tools of spirituality is, to paraphrase Hobbes, "Nasty, Poor, Brutish, and Short."

As for me, I am not an atheist. I do believe in god, but I'm not such a coward and hypocrite as to deny the very works of that god in favor of comfortable fantasies. Even if it appears that one of those works, was not some soul for which happily ever after awaits.

If you want to go back to the cave, then do so. I won't stop you. But I want to go to the stars.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by Lasheic]

The problem isn't science specifically IMO, it's that science and humanity in general are parasitic to the planet. I think the fix will be for us to merge spirituality and science to create a symbiotic relationship to the planet.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


I am so sorry to hear. I am sure she is with the Father and watching us from a very nice place.

Originally posted by Mentaltraveler
The problem isn't science specifically IMO, it's that science and humanity in general are parasitic to the planet. I think the fix will be for us to merge spirituality and science to create a symbiotic relationship to the planet.

Exactly. My problem with Science and the scientific method is that it's an incomplete thought, an incomplete concept. Yes, we know how to find and label minute particles of matter, we know how to measure and manipulate these particles, and then we rush headlong into implementation and widespread commercialization of new technologies — always with unforeseen and detrimental side effects on the environment.

Always.

If Science and the scientific method were complete thoughts, we would find and label minute particles of matter, measure and manipulate these particles, implement resulting technologies under very tightly controlled conditions, and then REVERSE any science and technology that produces unforeseen side-effects. Which includes all Science.

What do I mean by reversing Science? No, I'm not talking about stuffing genies back into their bottles.

I'm talking about immediately disassembling and disposing of Science that threatens our existence before such science ever crawls out of its crib. This would have changed the course of history a million times over.

I can hear the wanna-be scientists out there, all crying out in one quavering sob: Oh, my G_d! If we refused to implement new technologies until we were certain they were benign, we'd still be back in the Middle Ages!!

Well.... Yeah. So what?

The total human population in the Middle Ages was only a few hundred million people — entirely sustainable given Earth's vast resources. There was no catastrophic manmade pollution problem in the Middle Ages. Certainly, there were primitive, localized wars, but nothing that threatened the extinction of all Life on the planet. In the Middle Ages, people were self-sufficient and either survived or died at the whim of Mother Nature.

Hmm! In other words, the Middle Ages represented a far GREENER and far more SUSTAINABLE interaction between Man and Earth.

Which is exactly what we want today, because our Science is out of control, destroying the biosphere as we speak.

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 1/12/2010 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by LususNaturae


As to the statement that you don't have any credentials to comment...that's b.s. Of course you do, because NO ONE has ANY concrete evidence of what the soul is...only presumptions and ideas. Until a person has concrete evidence, and submits it to humanity w/o anything being disproven, we're ALL qualified to give our two cents.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by nycfrog27]

[edit on 12-1-2010 by nycfrog27]

Originally posted by Alasian
Everyone in this thread should study some about dualism, identity theory, functionalism, intentionality and so on. They are all philosophies talking about the mind, (dualism is about the soul actually) but the soul deal is closely connected to this and they also talk a great deal about the soul.

Basically, philosophy has proven through words and logic, a long time ago, that mind and soul does not exists, they are merely the fantasy of the brain.

So everyone, say goodbye to your souls, they don't exist. Don't believe in the supernatural. It is called SUPERnatural because it is not in the natural, it is only in our heads. Everything in the universe is natural, something supernatural (i.e. the Christian God) is outside the universe (i.e. does not exist).

Wrong. Simple. I study philosophy, this is not the case. Put it this way, either the "mind" is a creation of the brain, or the "mind" attaches to the brain. Think of the brain as a possible connector between the physical and the non-physical.

The problem we have is how can the non-physical interact with the physical.

Cheers, Brad.

I think the "evidence" of the existence of the soul must be sought outside of the human brain. That is to say, what skeptics want as "evidence" is something that they can experience and which they cannot refute, because it's actually happening to them.

As a believer, I know that everyone and everything is imbued with a soul — even skeptics and scientists and atheists all have souls, regardless of whether or not they acknowledge it. The challenge is to cause them to RECOGNIZE the existence of their own souls. Triggering this recognition with external evidence is the only way to convince the skeptics.

There is such external evidence, I assure you. It's not necessarily found in the church or in religion, but I think it is definitely found in ART.

What we refer to as "masterpieces" of art are, in every instance, inspirations of the Soul — these works come from the Soul, not from the human brain itself. Artists in every medium readily acknowledge that, at the moment of creation, they are consumed in an otherworldly kind of euphoria, that the artwork seemed to flow effortlessly out of them or through them, as though from an external source.

The important thing is, the resulting artwork still carries a vibration or something from its source of creation. Subsequent viewers of the artwork can feel this vibration — that is, the viewers' souls resonate with the soul of the artist, such that the viewing itself becomes a spiritual experience.

I've seen some hard-hearted bastards, the least spiritual people I've known, who became absolutely transfixed by masterworks of the highest art. I've seen people spontaneously start crying with no forewarning, simply because they came in contact with a masterpiece.

They don't call them "masterpieces" for nothing.

Interestingly, in my experience, this soul vibration doesn't translate very well through photography or sound recording — I'm talking about photographs of masterpieces, sound recordings of masterpieces. They just don't have the same impact as viewing or hearing a masterpiece in the first person.

I can give you an example...at least one example.

Many years ago, I had an opportunity to attend an exhibit of actual works by Vincent Van Gogh (anyone who has seen a Van Gogh in person can tell you where this story is going). As is the case with most people, I had never seen a real Van Gogh, only photographs of his work. I thought I knew Van Gogh's work through photography.

But I was stunned when I met one of Van Gogh's self-portraits...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0822dc2d1896.jpg[/atsimg]

You're first startled by the color, then you examine the irregular textures of the pigment, the thousands and thousands of short, repetitive, obsessive strokes, and you start to wonder about the mental stability of the artist, because this doesn't look like it was executed by a normal human being.

And then you lock onto Van Gogh's eyes, which are scrutinizing you — you feel this painting looking back at you. He resents you. He doesn't care about your approval or disapproval. He doesn't want you in his world. It's his world, he made it, he created this three-dimensional world for himself, so he could climb through the canvas and escape the cruel and ugly reality of your world...

Then somebody nudged me. I looked around and one of the other tour members was standing there, tapping her watch. "You've been standing here for a half-hour," she said.

What?

Something had happened to me, my perception of the passage of Time had stopped. I felt embarrassed, as though this woman had walked in on me masturbating or something equally personal.

I glanced back at Van Gogh, and his gaze instantly trapped me again! I started falling into his world again!

She nudged me once more and once more I turned to her. She smiled a little but looked at me nervously. It was then I realized she wouldn't look at Van Gogh's self-portrait, only at me. This is when it dawned on me that Van Gogh's work was alive... It carries the essence of his soul.

A few moments later, as we exited the exhibit, my female companion said, "People go crazy for Van Gogh. Literally crazy."

I knew what she meant. In his latter career, Vincent Van Gogh barely had anything left in the way of a rational mind. It was like he was functioning on a purely spiritual level, which is crazy as hell to an outside observer. But, when he was painting — which he described as playing music, playing the violin — he was pouring his soul out on the canvas.

It carried his vibration with it, which is still tangible, even to people who have no interest in art.

I would challenge the skeptics out there to attend exhibits of masterworks, if you ever get the chance — I don't care who the artist is, because I've felt similar sensations while viewing and hearing other artists. Go to a concert hall to hear Mozart's or Beethoven's music. These and many other masterworks are tangible proof of the existence of the soul.

If you aren't touched, if you still don't understand, then you don't exist.



— Doc Velocity





[edit on 1/12/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
I think the "evidence" of the existence of the soul must be sought outside of the human brain. That is to say, what skeptics want as "evidence" is something that they can experience and which they cannot refute, because it's actually happening to them.

Why can't people wrap their mind around the soul and the spirit not being the same thing? The soul is very much a part of the body/carnal mind. The spirit, the animator, is what you are referring to.

The spirit is outside of the brain, but the soul isn't.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


I am sorry for your loss, I know it can be very difficult, ... As an out of body traveller, all I can say is, take comfort in knowing no one ever really dies, .... and offer you my favorite quote :

death is nothing at all. i have only slipped away into the next room. i am i, and you are you. whatever we were to each other, that we still are. call me by my old familiar name, speak to me in the easy way you always used to. put no difference in your tone, wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow. laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes we enjoyed together. play, smile, think of me, pray for me. let my name be ever the household word that it always was, let it be spoken without effort, no trace of a shadow on it. life means all that it ever meant. it is the same as it ever was. there is unbroken continuity. why should i be out of mind because i am out of sight? i am waiting for you, somewhere very near. just around the corner. all is well.
-- Henry Scott Holland 1847 - 1918
Canon of St Paul's, London

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Doc I have read a few of your posts as well as your near death experience, .... you have a good grasp of reality, however as much as you try to explain it, ..... can we really ever put it into words ??? or in a context that other's could truly understand ??

It's something you have to see, to believe.

It's amazing isnt it though ?? Knowing, .... not believing, ... but knowing what's out there ?? what we are ??

I am still in awe, and though sometimes I have a tendancy to forget, .... every now and then I remember, ... like tonight, everything becomes clear again, I am one with all that is, ... and i can't help but weep, ... at the beauty of all of this.

That's an amazing NDE report.

As far as doctors and miracles you might want to read this awesome new book '' The Soul and the Scapel" by neurosurgeon Allan Hamilton

www.allanhamilton.com...

reply to post by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Why can't people wrap there mind around the soul and the spirit not being the same thing? The soul is very much a part of the body/carnal mind. The spirit, the animator, is what you are referring to. The spirit is outside of the brain, but the soul isn't.

It's human nature to categorize, to divide, to separate the totality of existence into its component parts.

As we should have learned by now, existence is One... There is no distinction between Man and Nature, no distinction between territories and states and countries, no distinction between heart and lungs and brain and guts, and no distinction between Spirit and Soul and Mind and Body.

It's all One.

We love to compartmentalize Nature and Spirit into easily-digestible chunks, but there is no division outside of the divisions we attempt to impose on our existence.

Since even I am not immune to implementing these erroneous labels and concocting preposterous metaphor, I would say that Spirit is the power network, and the Soul is the connection point in each of us.

Our souls both exude and absorb information of spiritual importance, and this information is filtered through our human shell, filtered by our rational human Minds. This "filter" is comprised of our "individual" educations and experiences in Life.

The trick to restoring our sense of Unity is to bypass our mental filters, to recognize and appreciate one another on a spiritual level, which entails making connections between souls.

When I say that Van Gogh poured out his soul onto his canvas (or whatever surface he chose to paint, there were several), I'm saying that he had bypassed his mental filters, that the Spirit was flowing out of him directly from his Soul, with no human rationality to obstruct it.

Something about this direct contact survives in Van Gogh's work, and it somehow still bypasses the viewer's mental filters, contacting the viewer's Soul directly, establishing a direct spiritual link across Time and Space.

This isn't New Age claptrap that I picked up in the Rainbow Unicorn Bookstore... This is my knowledge acquired through life experience over the last half-century. I'm certain of what I say, I know this is how it works.

Which is probably one reason I'm being kicked out of the Lutheran Church.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by happygolucky
reply to post by LususNaturae

 

What is the "soul" and what happens when you die?

Well, don't you remember what it was like before you were born..?

Nothingness - or maybe your memory isn't as good as mine...

So, when you die I would assume nothingness comes back...kinda sad, but at least it's familiar, huh..?

If you can't remember 'what it was like' before you were 'born' then how can you say it is nothingness? You would have to be able to remember this 'nothingness' in order to say whether it exists. There has never been such a thing as 'nothingness', otherwise there never would have been anything in the first place. Death is not 'nothingness' it is simply 'unkown' to most people. I have experienced the other side myself and it is anything but 'nothingness', it is more like 'everythingness'.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Hey Doc. Lefty right-brainer, here. I go into the zone when working on something I love. My interpretation is different than yours. I can see how people may interpret this as coming from outside of their body. In my view, that's just a delusion. I think it's a common delusion, and exists because people can't rationally explain it. Think I can.

I tend to think of intuitions as an integration of instincts and experience. What is instincts? It's the hard-wired memories from across the eons of what works best for continued life. We have basic instincts like survival and procreation. From this comes emotions like love.

I gather from this all that an outpouring of soul is basically an expression of love. It seems to me that as social creatures, we have an inherent need to feel at one with each other, and as an extension at one with nature. It's detrimental for us to think otherwise. Synergy does exist.

I think in those who have a strong desire to feel love, yet can't find it in a suitable mate, they find an outlet like art, or science, or politics which allows them to discharge this instinctual need. This is known as sublimation. Seeing everything as alive is a form of projection. We project our disowned sense of self as an idealization.

I think this shows the incredible capabilities of man, but doesn't really prove the existence of a soul as anything existing outside of our body.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst
It's amazing isnt it though ?? Knowing, .... not believing, ... but knowing what's out there ?? what we are ??

That is the ultimate evidence, I think, that we are more than an assemblage of gooey, dripping tissues and electrical impulses. It's that KNOWING, the one-way circuit called FAITH.

Most people, and certainly all atheists, don't or can't grasp this unquestioning knowledge, this transcendental certainty that resides in all of us. Even though they themselves possess it, they struggle to rationalize it away, pretend it doesn't exist.

Which is kind of like pretending there isn't a 1000-foot ocean liner parked in your driveway when there is.

"What? What ocean liner? Oh, that thing? That's not an ocean liner. Logic dictates that I can't have a 1000-foot ocean liner in my driveway; therefore, there's not an ocean liner in my driveway. Pardon me, I have to go check the bilge pumps."



— Doc Velocity