Could Our Universe Be Fake?

The meaning of life is to make this World a paradise..... not a living hell, and at the moment it seems to be going to hell....

There are people on this Earth intent on making it happen and indeed when you see or read the news it certainly seems it...

Am i posting this in the wrong thread?

Anyway we can create our own destiny.... our own World but we have to get rid of the false ones first.... as for the Universe... it is infinite and i'm sure it is there.... look at the Moon tonight and tell me if it is there or not... take a photo....

What i like most about the outside world is the nature and wildlife which is definately real....

Originally posted by ZenTao
reply to post by TaraLou

 

"We are not a computer programme - mankind evolved long before computers."

What is meant by this is that everything is running in order & disorder as if it was written code in a computer program. Math is the language of the universe. Math is one thing that proves the "program" theory. Math can describe our universe in so many ways, and do you think that these things can exist accidentally? No way. The program lines up everything for creation, from the very small to the very large. The creator is the one that wrote the code. We are the "users" that live within the boundaries of the program. (yes..."the Matrix" was based on some of these ideas including early discoveries by Max Planck)

Look at Dr.Bruce Lipton and cell biology. He has proven that cells in the body perform with a function and a certain amount of "low level" intelligence. They "know" what to do. How is this possible? It's all part of the program.

In regard to the OP, let's not forget the idea of "perception". Spiritually speaking, nothing would exist without consciousness and our perception of it. We are the creators of what we perceive, but... that does not mean that the universe is real. In fact, quantum physics has shown that there is no matter. Everything is really just energy and what we percieve to matter is almost all made of empty space.

Peace.

I've read that book by Dr. Lipton; "The Biology of Belief", excellent reading. He raises some interesting points and I think he's right about each cell exhibiting some form of "intelligence" but the book falls short of an explanation by which that intelligence is propagated. If I may suggest, as a suplement, "The Cosmic Serpent" by Jeremy Narby. He delves into the foundations of intelligence as propagated by light.

Also, I if I may add another possibilty to the "Simulation" speculation. If indeed we live in a Universe whose properties are such that any deviation in those properties would preclude the existance of life, then it would seem to follow that the Universe was created. However, if it is also true that we live in one Universe among an infinite number of parrellel Universes, then isn't it possible that we just happen to be in the one whose properties are compatible with the development of life?

Yep, easily.

We don't even know how other humans percieve the world, never mind what's real. How do you describe a colour or a smell? What I see as green might not be what you see, and therefore if 2 people see something differently is it real?
Even if you think about a solid object, it's made up of atoms, which are made up of protons, nutrons and electrons... and so on, getting smaller and smaller. But we see the solid object.
The human mind processes things in the easiest way for us to see them, I suppose. Whether or not this makes it real or fake is a philosophical argument in itself.
Never mind thinking about 'what makes things real or fake'!

It could be fake, easily, but we wouldn't know. Although I don't think it is. I dunno why, I just don't. Maybe thats the point you're getting at in the first place.
Even if it is, we're living it so it's nothing to worry about.
If it IS something to worry about... Well, never mind... People tend to ignore the big things after all. Big things make people's heads spin.
What we see is real to us, so we should just go with that.
*Shrugs* I bet if some of my family were replying to this they'd say something like "We won't know til we're dead and there's no point in worrying about being dead coz then you won't be living properly." or something along those lines! Seems to have got them this far...



A.

Edit to mention: Yeah, the creation thing about the exact conditions we live in... If the Big Bang had been slightly off, no carbon would be formed... No life as we know it... But then that wouldn't make a differnce to us coz we wouldn't know about it anyway.
But if we didn't live to percieve anything, it wouldn't be percieved... Which is the point of the parallel existences theory, isn't it? We have to be living in at least one alternate reality since we can't imagine not living...
I've just confused myself so God help anyone else! And I'm going a bit off topic so I'll leave it there. Damn my communication skills!



[edit on 21/12/2009 by Ayana]

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
I do remember seeing a thread here that says the universe is a hologram

The "hologram" description of the universe by scientists was not meant to be literally -- although most people in the thread took it literally, a la a universe like in The Matrix). Many people on that thread likened a holographic universe to a "fake" universe, which wasn't what those scientists had in mind.

The way it was described by those scientists is that the universe may be "like" a hologram in this respect: A hologram to us is a 3-dimensional representation of an object projected from a 2-D image...

...THEREFORE, it is possible that what we interpret as 3 dimensions in nature may only be the natural projection of a universe that has its essence in lower dimensions.

I suppose it is a lot like a literal hologram, but that hologram could be "the way nature and the universe simply 'is'", and not necessarily a "projector" being operated by another being. If that were the case, the holographic universe would not be "fake", but rather just the universe's natural way of existing.

[edit on 12/21/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by gazerstar


Here's a good link.

www.simulation-argument.com...

Good reading!

Dear friend,

The four questions you need to ask youself.

If the Universe is fake :

1.- Where the Extraterrestrials are coming from?

2.- Who is throwing rocks (we call them asteroids, comets...) to us?

3.- What are those little lights blinking in the sky every night?

4.- Where is the border? Is there a wall?

The Universe is real, you are inside it. You can't see it but you can feel it...same way a baby can feel his/her mother from inside her before born.

reply to post by starwarsisreal


Read Michael Tabott's book "Holographic Universe". This book took me a good month and a half to get through (usually I can grasp a book's concept in a little more than a week).

Very interesting reading.

reply to post by SpinifexPrincess


Yes!

The Truman Show abosolutely creeped me out. Like a burst of reality.

Yikes

Just because NASA (or whoever, Catholic Church, etc) lies to you/us, that doesn't mean the Universe is fake. It just means that you are having a strong intuition that our current understanding of the Universe is fundamentally flawed. You don't know how you know, you just know it.

Each generation of humans must take what they've been told, analyze it, re-observe the universe, make new discoveries, and pass their new understanding on to the next generation. It's not a conspiracy (inherently) but rather, because a lot of what we "know" is based on old understandings. You need to understand though (and this is important) that our current knowledge of the universe is much much better than it was only 100 years ago. In another 100 years it will most likely be even that much better (if not many times better because of the exponential growth of human knowledge that is taking place).

[edit on 21-12-2009 by harrytuttle]

reply to post by TaraLou
You posed a most poignat question.

Maybe those short little lives were here to teach our souls a lesson.

A star for your indept awareness.

reply to post by Cybercrash

“The Holographic Universe” By Michael Talbot.

Excellent book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am giving a copy (not mine) to my nephew this Christmas.

Very mind expanding.

Thank you for listing this excellent read.

Here's a good technique that I use all the time to determine if I'm living in a hologram ...

Randomly (preferably in mid-conversation with someone who doesn't know you very well :-), stop the conversation and shout out "Computer! End Program" or "Computer! Arch!" - and act as if you are waiting for a response before allowing the conversation to continue.

It's a real eyebrow-raiser.

reply to post by operation mindcrime


A star for you insightful post.

Yes, we are given choices. These affect our soul's journey. A very wise and asute awareness!

[edit on 21-12-2009 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator
Unbelievable. Get out. Yes I am going to try it much to the amazement of friends and family.

A star for your ingenous post!

Originally posted by gazerstar
What if what we perceive as our entire universe is fake?

i'm not sure what you mean by "fake," exactly.
do you mean as in it is an illusion?
or that it is like the backdrop on a theater stage-set?

i do personally agree 100% with Albert Einstein's declaration that
"reality is an illusion - albeit a persistent one"

However, I've noticed lately whenever Hubble, SOHO, etc. releases photos or information about other planets, the sun, our galaxy, other galaxies, extra-solar planets and moons, etc. that many of us automatically trust that information to be accurate.

well, i can't say that i have always been totally trusting of such things but my attitude has evolved over the last decade or so.
mainly because i have undertaken to learn as much as i can, on my own, about anything that interests or puzzles me or even arouses my suspicions.


that way, i don't have to trust OR distrust anyone else more than absolutely necessary!
i've gained a very un-stressful way of life, i must confess

Wouldn't it stand to reason that if NASA would lie to us about the moon and Mars that they wouldn't lie, or at least not reveal the complete truth, about everything else?

i am 99% sure that NASA did NOT lie about the moon, for various reasons with which i do i need not to derail your thread, by explaining - or debating.
but i must ask is that what you believe?
that it was a lie or hoax?
and if so, what motive do you believe NASA had, in doing such a thing?
in other words, what would be the point?

and what convinced you?
who?
how?

At what point, can we know that anything being told or shown to us about our cosmos is real? Does anyone else feel this way, or is it just me?

no one was sure if Einstein's theory of general relativity was TRUE until Eddington's photograph of the 1919 eclipse...not even Einstein.
no one seemed to ever question if Eddington's photo was authentic, that i know of

they trusted that photograph enough to build ideas and theories of great import upon it's foundation...and so far, everything's been in agreement.

there could be no International Space Station today if the US had not only gone to the moon and landed but also returned, safely, to Earth.
and not ONCE did they land on the moon but SIX TIMES - there is so much known today, and still entrusted with human life, that depends upon these things being true and real that it seems impossible to me that any of it was a lie!

if in writing this, i am understanding why, perhaps, that you are now having these thoughts of the universe being "fake."

i'm not dogging you, either, please know this
i'm just trying to help you find out, for yourself, the answer(s) that you seek!

knowledge is power!
there is no reason you cannot know, for sure, whether you can trust the things that you see with your eyes...but you must educate yourself as to what it is that you are looking at.

reply to post by marker


You aren't crazy. I have never thought of the light at the end of the tunnel being bad.

Remember in the movie "Poltergeist" when that little lady tells the souls of children to go into the light even though she told the family and her assistants earlier that the light was bad?

Now I have something new to research and ponder. Thanks.

Well if it were proven that NASA had actually lied about anything to do with the moon & mars then Id understand people having doubts about info about other areas of space... But, what could they possibly want to hide in the first place?

And before even answering that, you have to think whats the point in questioning such things that we have zero effect on our daily lives, and that we are unable to verify? Seems more like there's bigger issues going on in our own corner of the universe, without having to worry about if the universe outside of that isnt what it seems.

*Edit - I put moo instead of moon

[edit on 21/12/09 by Bluebelle]

In my opinion, this thread is fundamentally flawed because it exists on the premise that nasa, et al, ARE airbrushing out structures on mars the moon and so on, when there is absolutely NO evidence to substantiate this.

It's using a baseless accusation to give merit to a question that in and of itself, is also grasping.

This doesn't look like a coverup to me.

RAther than fake how about being used for someone, somethings amusement.
This is what seems to me sometimes and they, them , it, has a bad sence of humor.
Really I'm only joking I'll take it all in stride, I don't want any one mad and make things worse.
If your given lemons make lemonade, if you lucky you'll find some sugar, so your not sour puss.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
I do remember seeing a thread here that says the universe is a hologram

The "hologram" description of the universe by scientists was not meant to be literally -- although most people in the thread took it literally, a la a universe like in The Matrix). Many people on that thread likened a holographic universe to a "fake" universe, which wasn't what those scientists had in mind.

The way it was described by those scientists is that the universe may be "like" a hologram in this respect: A hologram to us is a 3-dimensional representation of an object projected from a 2-D image...

...THEREFORE, it is possible that what we interpret as 3 dimensions in nature may only be the natural projection of a universe that has its essence in lower dimensions.

I suppose it is a lot like a literal hologram, but that hologram could be "the way nature and the universe simply 'is'", and not necessarily a "projector" being operated by another being. If that were the case, the holographic universe would not be "fake", but rather just the universe's natural way of existing.

[edit on 12/21/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

yeah yeah but

it could be all fake

lets assume in the future we have the power to create a complete simulation of a universe ... then it would be possible to create life, but this creatures would be pre programmed, so I really dont know how the AI would work in that case ... if we are assuming that there is no way to simulate our brain the way it is, then it wouldnt be equal to our world, but if they could simulate our brain, then it would be another world just like ours, so it would make u think ... what if we are the ones simulated too ... it would be very possible

but another thing, maybe we really live in a virtual world, inside another virtual or not world, who knows, maybe there are beings controlling us ... is it possible? I would say in the future it would be very plausible some games that make your brain receive information like you are somebody else ... you just would have to make a way to change our senses to the senses of the game ... then you would really be that persona ...

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Faiol]