An American Soldiers Perspective, My Perspective

Want to know a true Patriot? His name is 1Lt. Ehren Watada. He refused to be deployed to Iraq. He saw that it was an unjust war, this guy actually used his brains and refused to be an instrument of the Big Oil Industry.

You can read about him here: en.wikipedia.org...

No ties with Al-qaida + No WMD = Unjustified War

Anybody who believes that the US went to war with Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people are being naive! We all know its about oil!

I thought after 9/11 you guys were out there to bring justice to the victims? All of a sudden that is not the goal anymore but instead you are there in the mid-east to uhmm... "liberate the Iraqi people". Why Iraq? Why not Myanmar/Burma? Tell me why?

Again, I am not against you. If our soldiers are to die, let it be for a noble cause and not the big corporations agenda. I am against those who sent you there. Time to wake up and stop being their pawn.

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


You know, the Iraqis having freedom & democracy isn't worth your death in combat.

Nor are their liberties worth my taxes.

Iraq posed no threat to the USA, no threat to Europe. You have absolutely no business being there, colonialism is long defunct. Be brave, have the courage of others convictions and simply refuse to serve there any more. Take the flak, take the abuse, do the time, lose the wages, lose the house ... lose that lot ... but retain your dignity if nothing else.

Don't go creep crawling here to berate those hippy ass taxpayers who are paying through the nose for your jaunt abroad, the ones who saw through the madness from the very beginning ; it severely grates. Never forget, you serve them, not vice versa.

You won't be spat on when you return, no. But a few people will look at you askance and wonder what on earth was going through your mind when you signed up for this little enterprise.

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


I once had a female teacher tell me that she believed that their were soldiers over there who were still performing honorably...

So I asked her if she believed if there were any German soldiers who performed honorably in Stalingrad...

Her face went blank and her mouth closed.

Moral of the story; When you are participating in a criminal act you are still a criminal.

Like it or not the invasion of Iraq was and still is a criminal action. We invaded two countries during the Bush administration who had not fired a single shot at us. To this day there is no evidence to change this statement. You knew full well that we were involved over there before you enlisted.

Save us you're plea for pity.

I get calls from VFW telemarketers these days asking me to give money to our troops for this cause and that one. When I ask them if they've set up a fund for the servicemen who had the courage to take themselves out of those criminal actions by deserting I get another speechless dead silence.

When humans stop fighting the wars for those criminals then we will have no more wars.

These words are going to anger some of you... Too bad. Just remember when your on leave and enjoying your families that you've totally ruined other families in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those countries have been blown to hell and back again compliments of the U.S. Army/Navy/Marines/Air Force.

Hell, Afghanistan was blown to hell by the Soviets and then we came along and blew up their rubble piles over there as if enough damage hadn't been done to them. But tough little boogers they turned out to be hey? Because they don't like foreign occupiers and who the hell could blame them.

We all have choices in life wether they are hard ones with serious consequences or easy ones with melodramatic implications. Yes, your family would have fallen on hard times if you refused to go. Yes, you would have been incarcerated for a time... But your soul would not have the blood on it's hands that it has now. Your family would have survived. Your pride would have returned and so too would have your freedom in time. But all the people killed over there can not be brought back now.

I think you might be of the opinion that us people who see this mess for what it really is are somehow punishing you servicemen/woman. We are not. That will be God's job and God never misses a detail. God has this really cool law in place called Karma. Karma dictates that every score is settled in one way or another and the tally is never unbalanced in the end. YOU Will have to answer for what you and others did over there and there is no escaping it. Asking for my understanding or anyone elses on this sight will not get you off the hook.

For whatever you did, you will make reparations for it sooner or later if not even in this life then probably in the next. We all pay for what we do and there are no exceptions. Yes you chose the easy path of subordination and the "I was just following orders" hogwash that the Nazis used to scream. Well good on you. But you're going to pay the piper like we all do in the end my brother human.

You say that you've been able to avoid a second tour. What I hope happens to you is that the papers come down that say that you must go back over there. Then may you find the courage that you lacked the first time around to say NO!

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


I will hate to my dying breath the beaureaucrats and politicians who sent you in to harm's way for a lie.

At the same time, I will always be grateful for the sacrifices of every soldier who offers themselves up for what they hope will be the protection of our country.

Thank you.

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


I will hate to my dying breath the beaureaucrats and politicians who sent you in to harm's way for a lie.

At the same time, I will always be grateful for the sacrifices of every soldier who offers themselves up for what they hope will be the protection of our country.

Thank you.

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
((snip))

A piece of the vehicle that exploded cut a woman in half and also killed her child she was holding. Is this our fault? Most would say no, however there are those select few of special people that would say if we weren’t there then they wouldn’t have drove a VBIED into our convoy, but aren’t we all responsible for our own actions?

www.icasualties.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

Since there has been no trial on the legality of the war, yet, and the legality of the violence is in question.. nobody is technically at fault. Yet.

As MP you should be aware of criminal vicarious liability and already know who can be at fault for that death: you.. just for being there... if or when charges are filed and international case law is applied during whatever trial / tribunal occurs in the future.

Not only has the iraq occupation has been called "illegal" by the un sect general.. there is plenty of international case law that points to it's illegality. Even a probationer 1 day off field training can find enough evidence / case law to file war crimes charges and let the accused stand a fair trial. As an MP I'm sure you're aware of case law regarding wars, correct? like the US is in violation of the Kellogg–Briand Pact a binding "law of the land treaty" under federal law under article VI clause 2 of the constitution.

Not to mention in violation of the UN charter. 1441 threatened "serious consequences" for Iraq's alleged failure to disarm, we now know iraq had disarmed and if this was a court case the "charges" would be summarily dismissed. In addition 1441 conflicts with Internationally accepted law for "preventive" or "preemptive" military action referred to as the "Caroline case" where after a US ship was attacked, the US govt agreed agreed:

"Respect for the inviolable character of the territory of independent nations is the most essential foundation of civilization," and that this can only be legally overridden by "a necessity of self-defense, instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation," and "the act... must be limited by that necessity, and kept clearly within it."

The bush clearly ignored, actually defiled, this international standard... iraq posed no instant overwhelming threat, and the occupation has gone way past being "limited by that necessity" and into being a blatant act of international banker gangsterism.

Caroline case was also cited at Nuremberg where the germans (USA) argued they had (solid! bullet proof) intelligence that norway (iraq) posed a future threat, thus attacking norway (iraq) was legal self defense. This was soundly rejected, as was the argument germany alone could decide whether preventive action was a necessity.

Also at Nuremberg "I was just following orders" was rejected as a defense for war crimes (vicarious liability strikes again).

"The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."

You had a moral choice to participate in a legally dubious war, and decided to follow orders... as an MP you should have been more aware of international case law than the average grunt... just like I, as a sworn 830.1 should have known.

Of course since the banker gangster DC mafia uses the US govts power to bully most of the planet, there is no immediate threat of war crimes suspects facing trial.. but you never know, years down the road after the current PTB have been uprooted via revolution / revolt I doubt this insult to humanity will go un-punished forever and we'll be watching an old feeble bush on trial with his neoclown lackeys and anyone else they can hunt down.

I served and accept that one day as I'm enjoying my golden years I might get a knock on the door for participating, "just following orders man" orders I should have known were 100% texas manure.. I can only apologize, plead ignorance and hope for a fair sentence if found guilty. Until then I'm innocent until proven guilty, like you.

www.thirdworldtraveler.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...(criminal)

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


Every soldier,in every war has said the same. I am one,I know. Take care Brother!!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


I find this post funny. As a soldier from Desert Storm, I too was faced with the same things this soldier was. This poster has absolutely no idea how the real world works. Kill or be killed. No regard for the plight of the enemy. That is a soldiers responsibility. Obviously Omega lives in his parents basement. I am proud of my service and I would do it again.

reply to post by RedDragon


apparently we have different ideas of what defending freedom means. You seem to think unless the bad man is invading your small town, all is right with the world. When in fact there are submarines patrolling the coast, fighters on standby in Alaska, all to make sure nobody (the bad man) invades your small town. Take those things away, and there is no safety net to protect you. Just your neighbors. And they might be just as peace loving as you are. Then you can all put a flower in the barrel of the 7.62 pointed at your family. The US military has not been involved in a conflict on american soil since pearl harbor. Do you know why? Because nobody wants to find out how bad a pissed off pit bull will bite. They would just rather stay home and send an occasional back door attack to keep the fires burning.

It doesn't matter what the soldiers think about the war in Afghanistan of Iraq, they would rather be home enjoying their families like you have the luxury of doing tonight. But our Elected officials, dare I say our savior Obama, is sending our troops out to do their bidding. War for oil, greed, yea, most likely. But if and when the bad man decides to see if you locked your gate, you and the rest of the social elite will be thankful Tommy was on patrol. And it won't matter how many times you post on ATS about how evil they are. They will still be there for you.

Originally posted by sealteamsix

Originally posted by The_Zomar

• Don't ever, EVER say those who don't join the military aren't brave. Some of us are simply intelligent enough to see its not an even fight, nor is it worth fighting.

Joining the military is getting in bed with the criminals.

I completely agree with you about people who don't join the military. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

However, it goes both ways. Don't insult those who joined the armed forces because you're against the wars. Whether you like it or not, they are fighting for you; even if only by association.

6000 miles is a bit far away to encroach on my freedoms, eh? I will accept they are defending me when I see US troops repelling an amphibious iraqi attack of malibu / US soil.

Until then fighting for you, me, freedom, liberty.. are all silly euphemisms / propaganda that are literally not true. They are literally fighting for their lives and the lives of the wo/man beside them.. why?, to further the interests of the DC mafia / banker gangsters who lied to start this war of aggression.

If the iraqis / afghans win outright and kick out all US forces tomorrow, I will still be just as "free" wont I?.. losing both wars won't change my day, how will it change the average US citizens life? what freedom / rights will we lose if they win?... none because THEY ARE TOO FAR AWAY to deny us of anything.

I fail to see how any of this violence is being done "for me", you or any US citizen 6000+ miles from harm... we know all this misery is based on lies, how if fighting for lies also defending freedom?

Originally posted by Ulala
Take the flak, take the abuse, do the time, lose the wages, lose the house ... lose that lot ... but retain your dignity if nothing else.

I always laugh when people say stuff like this. Ever do time in a Military prison?

Originally posted by Ulala
Don't go creep crawling here to berate those hippy ass taxpayers who are paying through the nose for your jaunt abroad.....

Remember, it's also my taxes that fund the military, so in a way, I'm paying myself.

Originally posted by Ulala
....the ones who saw through the madness from the very beginning ; it severely grates. Never forget, you serve them, not vice versa.

And it "severely grates" when some hippy gets in my face about how I'm "serving him". They need to keep in mind that when I deploy, I'm putting my ass on the line. They don't face the same things I do when they are going to the local free kitchen.

Originally posted by Ulala
You won't be spat on when you return, no. But a few people will look at you askance and wonder what on earth was going through your mind when you signed up for this little enterprise.

Big deal. It's a military thing; they wouldn't understand.

reply to post by VonDoomen


I agree in the principle that a small percentage of people in the military are bad, and that the majority are good, normal folk. The problem is not their inner emotional profiles, it's what they do. There is a case of cognitive dissonance between what they think and how they act, because they are empowering that small minority of bad seeds. The psychopaths.

And now, on the eve of 2010, nobody can claim ignorance, thousands of people like me have seen to that, by bringing the deeper realities of state sponsored terrorism, elitism, globalism and, ultimately, psychopathocracy (ponerology) to the group mind.

So we have to deal with this. The only us vs them that should survive this global awakening process is normal people vrs psychopaths.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by RedDragon

 

apparently we have different ideas of what defending freedom means. You seem to think unless the bad man is invading your small town, all is right with the world. When in fact there are submarines patrolling the coast, fighters on standby in Alaska, all to make sure nobody (the bad man) invades your small town. Take those things away, and there is no safety net to protect you. ((snip))

Nuclear weapons will be left to defend US soil, we have the ultimate deterrent. Not to mention 300+ million americans.. many armed... these are not safety nets? How exactly would the bad man attack the US?? I'm pretty sure our smallest nuke could easily defend US soil against standing armies in mexico or canada.. we could vaporize any floating armada.

Costa Rica has no nukes AND no standing army, yet they are not scared of the big bad wolf, nobody hates them because they are free. Maybe they should train DC in how not to be scared?, or how not to create enemies?

reply to post by GovtFlu


I guess you are right then. We don't need a military at all. as a matter of fact, we don't even need a police force. We have guns right? I truly wish I could somehow show you and the rest of your crowd what it would be like with no military. Nuke huh, who is going to push the button? You? Are you going to "vaporize" the armada at sea? How about when Russia decides they need some more oil and they decide since Alaska is so close, and there are only 300 cops there to protect it, they might at well take it. But.... network dude..... we have guns, the american people are armed! well my little friend, please go and take your hunting rifle and shoot that tank dead. I will wait here. Behind the US tank driven by the US military. The ones who are trained to drive it, fire the gun on it, and fix it when it breaks. You are free to believe Utopia exists and everyone else in the world would like to give you a big fat sloppy kiss and hug, but I know different. The bad man is out there, and he wants you dead. He wants it so bad he is willing to die doing it. Are you that committed?

Originally posted by GovtFlu
Costa Rica has no nukes AND no standing army, yet they are not scared of the big bad wolf, nobody hates them because they are free. Maybe they should train DC in how not to be scared?, or how not to create enemies?

Yeah, that's a good example. And just why would someone invade Costa Rica (I mean beside for their kickass beaches)? That's like invading Lichtenstein.

reply to post by jerico65


I just have this vision of when south park went to Costa Rica to save the rain forest. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. Are you conus or oconus?

reply to post by network dude


Haven't seen it. I'll check it out.

CONUS for now.

I will again post these words for the young crowd who thinks that peace is an attainable goal. The soldier is there fro your protection, no matter what you think.

Tommy by Rudyard Kipling (1865– 1936)

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

sleep well tonight.

reply to post by network dude


Can you elaborate more on this bad guy we are fighting?

I believe we need the military only to fight justified wars. Why should we go starting fights over inconclusive evidence?

By going on an invading spree, I believe we are making it unsafe for the next generation. Your soldiers are killing someones child; that child grows up in an Iraqi neighborhood, that child hates Americans for killing the parents, that child takes revenge on your child.

The cycle will never end if we keep invading other countries.

reply to post by Equinox99


I don't think I ever stated that we need to be in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or any other country we currently occupy. The reasons why we are there, are known only to the joint chiefs and congress. You and I get told what we are supposed to hear. None of that diminishes the fact that the US military is what keeps the bad man from coming to your door.

Who is the bad man? He has been many different people over the years. he will change when you least expect it. But make no mistake, he is out there. He was the Japanese in 1942, He was the Nazis in 1939. He was the Russian bear in the 70's and 80's. He might be radical Muslim extremists today. That remains to be seen.

Hoping and wishing we could all just get along seems like a great idea. I wish it would work. I truly do. But I have the distinct pleasure of living in the real world.