An American Soldiers Perspective, My Perspective

Originally posted by richierich
No thinking person could blame mere soldiers for obeying their orders..

Does someone ordering someone to do something remove their free will?

Soldiers have choices and if they choose to do bad things then they're bad people.

Occupying Iraq is a bad thing so why shouldn't the people doing bad things be considered bad people.

[edit on 12/11/09 by RedDragon]

reply to post by network dude


And I have no issues with the soldiers sitting put in the US guarding our borders and coastlines..

The soldiers who fought in Iraq/Vietnam/whatever obviously weren't doing that.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by network dude

 

And while other people sleep in other countries, that same US military is playing fast and loose with their safety, possibly even plotting to bomb them or subvert their government. It goes both ways, you know.

when oh when will you people learn. The military doesn't "decide to go" anywhere. They are ordered to go places by our government. You know, the ones you and I and everyone else in the US over 18 voted for. When you step down from your high horse, take some time to ask any soldier you can find if given the choice, would he rather be stationed at home close to family and friends, or at a cold desolate piss hole of a location like the desert in the middle east.

I bet you blame your hammer when you hit your thumb.

reply to post by RedDragon


but the real question is, do we agree that some form of the US military may have protected your freedoms since WW2?

Originally posted by RedDragon
reply to post by network dude

 

And I have no issues with the soldiers sitting put in the US guarding our borders and coastlines..

The soldiers who fought in Iraq/Vietnam/whatever obviously weren't doing that.

Seriously? Do you think we have a choice when they send us over there? Yeah, we can refuse and go to the brig. Yeah, we can get kicked out with a Big Chicken Dinner(Bad Conduct Discharge) and have a black mark on our names for the rest of our lives and never get a decent job. Yeah, we can go UA(Unauthorized Absence) and be on the run for the rest of our lives until the government finds us and sends us to the brig for not doing the duty that we WILLINGLY signed up to do.

You are not a warrior. I'm not much of one either for that matter, even though I'm a Marine. BUT I am in the mind set that if I have to fight to protect what I love, I will. You, like I said, are not a warrior, you were not born with the strength or body, heart, and mind. You were put here for something else. And that's okay. And I'm not saying you can't stand by what you're saying and what you believe, that's your right as a human being.

I don't know how many times I can emphasize that people don't really understand the mentality of the men and women who join the military because they have never been in out shoes. But that's okay! It's their choice. And if they don't like us for what we do, then that's okay too.

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


You're a fool.

Your whole post transpires the cowardness you have, incapable that you are of breaking out of your control system, the military, even if you knew that what you were sent to do is wrong.

And then you accuse others of not having strength of mind, body and heart. Wake up. Those of us that refuse things and end up straddled with the consequences are every much the warriors any special forces dolt is. Those of us that take sacrifice upon ourselves before we hurt others are fighting at a level you don't have the guts to.

Sorry if I seem aggressive, I hold no ill will towards you or any other person, it's just that I will not stomach this stupidity. People are dieing, by the millions, nations are being empoverished, disease is being spread because the likes of you, knowing that things are bad, are too cowardly to say "enough".

Don't you see what you're doing? You're projecting your own psychological problems onto others.

Now either do what should be done, which is disassociate yourself from a military which only serves a psychopathocracy, or just stop posting nonsense and assume yourself for what you are. And you are several dimensions of fear.

reply to post by Mindmelding


OK, it's time to put up or shut up. You think that every person in the armed forces should quit. Great. Here is how you accomplish your goal. Join the marines. I think they have the easiest boot camp so you should do fine there. Then you will be right in front of these men and women you seek to convert. You can spread you words and inform the "fools". It's time to walk the walk. You seem to be doing fine with the talking part. Please let us know how things are going and how many you convet.

reply to post by network dude


Ah freakin men brother!!

reply to post by network dude


You talk without knowing anything about me. In my time I did the whole martial arts thing, I could have survived a silly bootcamp if I was masochistic enough to submit myself to some power tripping psycho. Do you think I'm a long haired hippy, innocent about the ways of the world? Now I'm old enough to know better.

I've seen the darker side of life, it never atracted me. I don't need to wade in your waters to learn how to swim, I already know.

I may yet be tested, when the likes of people that defend military life beyond reason are turned back on the civilians, when the likes of them show their true colors and come knocking. Then I may yet be taken and killed and then, and only then will you see I'm true.

But you won't care, because the content of your posts show yourself to be more akin to those that parasitize people like me than to you ever being my friend.

And I stick with my core message. People have to come together locally with their community, not fall for agent provocateurs that seem to want to push the elite plans for the USA into high gear, which now would seem to be civil war. This is the lengths they will go to save their silly little FED.

Love each other, trade locally, use whatever technology is available. Ignore copyrights and stupid laws that favor the few over the many. And don't join the military, even if they are the only ones left paying. The money won't be worth the paper it's printed on anyway, once people break the mind control of fiat currency.

Cheers.

reply to post by Mindmelding


just to be clear, I was in the Air Force. The marines called it the "chair force" and with good reason. We had it easy. We did learn dicipline, honor, duty, and country. I am 100% sure I am a much better person for having served. I also think that everyone shoule serve at least two years in order to understand both sides of the argument. I have been a civilian, I have been an airman, and now I am a civilain again. I understand what it is that you seek and also what you fear. But the soldiers who serve are not who you should fear. I hope I never have to be proven correct, but if they were ever standing across the fence from you with rifles pointed both ways, I feel certain that they woudl be the first to lower the barrel. what you are missing is that their moms, dads, sisters, brothers, and cousins, are most likely people just like you. They are williing to give their lives to ensure you will be safe. Just because they are getting killed in Iraq today, doesn't mean they aren't willing to be killed in Topeka KS tomorrow. THEY are not your enemy. They are your first line of defence. You are the second. I will not change my opinon on this. I believe it too deeply. Are you willing to die for my freedom?

Why is the U.S. Armed Forces attacking U.S. citizens such a recurring topic of conversation?

Have I been missing something?

Originally posted by TheEndofEvolution
Why is the U.S. Armed Forces attacking U.S. citizens such a recurring topic of conversation?

The PTB are obviously going to use much, "in-force", "meant" on the population of the U.S.A.. Isn't it denial to not see it coming? You don't believe the people are asking where you stand there for a reason?

It is simply common knowledge that the powers that be are up to something; and it's clear that they will be using soldiers against the population here in America. The peoples concerns are legitimate and on topic.

A soldier approaching us to share their. "perspective", and the people responding concerning their insight into the most immediately pertinent question concerning the soldiers perspective.

In most of their minds, the answer to that question will literally determine whether that soldiers work is that of a truly, "good soldier", or not. I mean for real..

Have I been missing something?

I am sure you are aware you are on ATS where concerned people gather. And think about it; isn't that the most immediately pertinent question?

No consequencE..

Thank you.



[edit on 13-12-2009 by noconsequence]

reply to post by noconsequence


I wouldn't lose sleep over it and that goes for anyone.

Besides, I thought sovereign countries always hired mercenaries or armies of other countries to oppress their people.

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


I can't speak for Iraq, but it is a fact women and children were raped and killed in Korea and Vietnam.

Armys are Big and you have bad apples in with the good ones. With those shear numbers it's going to happen. You cannot train the dark side of man out of everyone. In fact for some people army training enforces this dark side because they train you to kill the enemy without a second thought.

I am not saying this is all soldiers.. but it does happen.

reply to post by network dude


I won't die for your freedom, you have and always will have that, and there is nothing me dieing would save.

I will die before I am put in a position where I am forced to kill, except direct self defense. I will eat grass at night before I let myself be a tool for oppression. And I'm sorry, but that is what the military is. The military is there as a veiled threat from the elites on their civilians and their neighbours. It is an institution created by psychopaths for psychopaths. The examples are endless, Alexander, Genghis Khan, Sun Tzu, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Shaka Zulu, and so on, all psychopaths who used the idolization of their peers as a tool to wield havoc on this earth.

Die for your family, die for your friend. Don't die for a country, it was never really yours. And better still, live for love, and save everyone around you that you can.

There was a time, before recorded history, that there was no nations, no states, and those of ours that walked on the earth back then just called themselves "the people". This is what we have to get back. This is the eden we threw ourselves out of. This is the sociological organization which humans function in best, in equality of potential. In true freedom and love. But then came labels.

My view. Take it for what you will.

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


Then apparently this is you:

www.youtube.com...


"Seriously? Do you think we have a choice when they send us over there? "

Yes, you do have a choice. You may face punishment but you do have a choice.

"Yeah, we can refuse and go to the brig. Yeah, we can get kicked out with a Big Chicken Dinner(Bad Conduct Discharge) and have a black mark on our names for the rest of our lives and never get a decent job."

Not getting a decent job is a fraction of the suffering that the people you aid to kill have to go through. You live in the richest country in the history of the world so saying that you have to kill people to make a living is a super poor excuse.

"Yeah, we can go UA(Unauthorized Absence) and be on the run for the rest of our lives until the government finds us and sends us to the brig for not doing the duty that we WILLINGLY signed up to do."

You willingly signed away your freedom to join the military. Now, you live with the consequences of having less freedoms.

No matter what though, you still keep your freedom of choice. That's what your 'soul' is and you never lose that (I'm an atheist and don't believe in souls so I'm obviously speaking metaphorically here).


"You are not a warrior."

Not professionally but if the time came to defend my freedoms, I assure you that I would become one very quickly. I'm not a pacifist.

" I'm not much of one either for that matter, even though I'm a Marine. BUT I am in the mind set that if I have to fight to protect what I love, I will."

There is nothing wrong with fighting to protect yourself and your friends and family. There is a lot wrong with fighting to steal natural resources and ensure profits of corporations and individuals.

" You, like I said, are not a warrior, you were not born with the strength or body, heart, and mind. "

I definitely have the strength, body and heart. The 'problem' is that I was born with too much mind to become a universal soldier.

"I don't know how many times I can emphasize that people don't really understand the mentality of the men and women who join the military because they have never been in out shoes."

People in the military act as if they have no choice and blindly follow the orders of superiors. If they didn't, there would be no Iraq conflicct right now.

I understand the concept of defense. If our military functioned as a defense force, I'd volunteer.

Unfortunately, it functions as a government subsidized mafia that protects and expands the profits of people and corporations who control it. I could never kill for someone else's profit and will never understand on a fundamental level what makes our soldiers like you willingly do it.

[edit on 12/13/09 by RedDragon]

reply to post by Lkelly1965
Explanation: RE:"I find this post funny."

So you find the addition of the Iraqi estimated casualty list and the self inflicted abrogation of both your constitutional and human rights to be a laughing matter!?

Is it any wonder then, that I find your type to be a disgusting laughing stock!

RE: "This poster has absolutely no idea how the real world works.Kill or be killed. No regard for the plight of the enemy. That is a soldiers responsibility. Obviously Omega lives in his parents basement."

Yes I do live in my parents house and I have both a bedroom and an office and MY battlefront starts there and not in some far away place that is not my backyard. Also, it is not some fantasy land that only exists in my skull I also come from a kill or be killed with no mercy POV but I'm quite willing to accept and proclaim my murderous vengeful intent to all and I am also quite willing to morally VALIDATE my actions according to an independant consensus agreed standard BEFORE I carry them out. The US was unable to do this at the UN in regards to invading Iraq! Therefor the 2nd Iraq war from the POV of morality is INVALID according to the standard set by the UN. AND that isn't even mentioning the NO WMD's debarcle etc!

Personal Disclosure: Being a soldier just for the money and lifestyle makes that individual a mercenary soldier of fortune! Does the US really need these amoral assassins for hire in the nation armed services? If yes then whats that say about the morality of the US in general?

reply to post by RedDragon


Surely you realize then that not all of us have killed someone. It is well into my 7th year and I have yet to fire a weapon in combat. I guess you could say I watch. I'm sure you guys will say something loosely linking me to the soldiers on the street.

Here is a question for you. President Obama, who happens to be my Commander in Chief, who also vehemently opposed the war in 2002, who also ran on a campaign of ending the wars, looks as if he is going a different way. Why do you think that is?

You want to go against the current because you feel like you must. That is the kind of person you are. It is in your nature to go against everything, to be the underdog, the outspoken. Even Barack Obama, the most liberal anti-war president in recent memory, who even I thought would end it, can not do it. He knows now we have to do.

Ya it's not you guys with the negative motives for war, well mostly, one of my buddies is training to go in the army so I don't feel hate for soldiers.
Good job.

Originally posted by RedDragon


"You are not a warrior."

Not professionally but if the time came to defend my freedoms, I assure you that I would become one very quickly. I'm not a pacifist.

woa, what? So you could kill to protect your freedom. Great, would you kill to protect my freedom?

You obviously know what your freedom means to you, do you know what freedom means to me? Do you care? How about your best friend? Would you kill or die to protect his?