I wouldn't recommend masonry to any one.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by truthquest

 

I'm certain that my intentions were very clear before any punches were thrown. But it goes deeper than the fight any way. It's the fact that there is the need for these guys to gossip like a bunch of high schoolers that bothers me the most. Here is an organization that motto is brotherly love, relief and truth, and the whole time all they are doing day in and day out is MF'n each other behind everyones back!!! Thats some real brotherly love! I know this, I've been going through it for almost a year now and its sickening.

I was brought up to deal with people on the level a long time before I ever met a mason. If you have a problem with a man you take it directly to him and speak to his face, eye to eye. If some one has a problem with me I would expect the same. Hell thats practically torn from masonic teachings as well. Honor, respect, loyalty. Those aren't words I take lightly.

Should it really be surprising that a secretive organization would like gossip? Gossiping is all about hush hush stuff that you keep secretive. The Masons make it a point to put a value on hush hush stuff that you keep secretive.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Ok last bite, when do you use the hand shake and why then? If it is not to reveal who you are and gain advantage or a change in attitude from the other party then why?

Let me guess its a secret.

Safety question though, do you have to wash your hand before you do it? (watch out for that swine flu!)

My friend, you are purposefully baiting people for the mere purpose of antagonizing them for their beliefs, and I know that you're aware of a more constructive way of handling this.

There is a reason why Masons choose to keep secrets, and I'll tell you this, its not for the grand purpose of taking over the societies of the earth. Some things are meant to be pure and taught in a fashion that doesn't get muddied up, or watered down. If it isn't kept within the confines of a tight knit group, different variations begin to appear and different interpretations often ensue, split, and fight for superiority. Example (Chrisitianity: Methodists, Baptists, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentacostalism, Evangelicalism, Lutheranism) How many of those last factions that I listed claim to have "the monopoly on Heaven and Hell?" Each one of those religions will claim to have the trump card against the other which pits Christian against Christian and brother against brother. Let's not forget the Abrahamic Religions in general. They consist of those many warring factions of Christianity, Islam (sunni vs shiite), and Judaism. Each one of these religions are derived from Abraham, hence, making them all similar in theory. However, none of them can coincide/coexist with the other because people have their own interpretations of religion which ultimately waters down and divides the purity of them.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH FREEMASONRY. Although Freemasonry is not a religion, nor a replacement for one, it openly accepts many belief systems and recognizes the need for cohesion. If a Freemason from Jersey meets a freemason from Iraq, you can bet that they will come together without having any differences between them, and their religions won't even clash. Freemasons are accepting of one another no matter what their geographical difference, political affiliation, religion, color, or creed. There are no spats between them, and they don't have to worry about any impurities of the teachings of freemasonry from one lodge to the next because it always stays consistent and without variation. In the OP's case, his story is definitely the exception to the rule and I BELIEVE its because of his quickness to use violence as a way to problem solve. However, I have no idea what the circumstances were, and I cannot pretend to judge it.

Nonetheless, If you could humble yourself without any ulterior motives for doing so, then you'd have one of the necessary attributes for becoming a mason. Instead of taking this offensive/defensive posture, why not go down to a lodge and speak with one of the people who are inside. It might surprise you the type of response you may receive.

"Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion: and it's teachings are instruction in religion.... This is the true religion revealed to the ancient patriarchs; which masonry has taught for many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time endures."
(Morals and Dogma,by Albert Pike pp213-214) The book which is received by undergoers of the Scottish Rite, or 33rd degree.

reply to post by On the Edge


Yes, and in the same book he drives the point that Masonry is neither a religion nor a replacement for religion.
"Masonry is not a religion.
He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it."
Morals and Dogma (p. 161)

It is open to all religion, a temple to all religions, as it were, while preaching none.

Have you read the book, by the way, or are you quoting from it?

The book which is received by undergoers of the Scottish Rite, or 33rd degree.

Not any longer, actually. It's been replaced by "A Bridge to Light."



[edit on 29-11-2009 by RuneSpider]

reply to post by RuneSpider


[The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sands heaped round it by the ages.] again, Albert Pike

It seems to me that deception of the initiate is order of the day. Befitting their God, Baphomet. I haven't read the entire book, for my God tells me:

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11

But here is a link to the book itself online, for anyone wanting to check to see that this is, in fact, in their own texts.

www.sacred-texts.com...

Originally posted by On the Edge

Originally posted by wiseone11
It all sounds like an good ole boys club to me...just a way for the boys to get together and have something to do and someplace to wear a tux..

Please view the video I posted earlier in the thread.

It is much more insidious than I think you realize.

I've seen all of those videos as well as studied gratuitous amounts of information that stated that Freemasons were trying to rule the world. I've heard every single conspiracy surrounding the implications of them being behind the NWO and sacrificing little children to satanic gods and worse. I actually delved into it so deep and got so paranoid that finally one day I had to pull myself out and say, "Is this about me actually learning something, or is it about me feeding my own fears about the world and not focusing on the control that I could be taking back in my own life?"

I'm going to tell you this right now. There are Freemasons out there right now who are struggling as hard as you or anyone else just to survive in this economy. There are freemasons who are losing their homes to the mortgage crisis and barely have a penny in the bank. This world is working against us all my man. Yes there are elitists out there and yes they look out for themselves. Yes, there is a general conspiracy to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, but, that design has always existed and probably never will change as long as there is such a thing known as currency. Currency is what creates the illusion of a "chain of command" from the poor to the elite. And, the elite will always work to ensure that they have the most "currency" to maintain their way of life and the status that it commands. Yes, Some of those elitists are actually even Masons who have branched off and done their own things, however, I think you would be surprised to know how many of the controlling elitists out there aren't masons. Believe me when I say a CEO wields more power than the President of the United States, and many of those CEO's have never had an affiliation with any lodge.

Anyway...if the conspiracy thing feeds you the fix that you need, I understand. I was there once. But, in the end, it is a very negative way to view your personal existence. If it all ends up to be true (and it won't, nothing is that simple) then consider yourself educated and warned on the topic. But if it doesn't, you've spent a huge portion of your life dedicated to something that could have been better spent enjoying the moments that you have HERE AND NOW, as opposed to worrying about an uncertain future filled with thoughts of a coming catastrophe due to elitists. Quite frankly, if it happens, it happens. Being prepared will only put you a half step ahead of those who are completely oblivious.

reply to post by RuneSpider


In the Northern District of the US Pike is never mentioned. If it were not for ATS I probably wouldn't even know of his writings and the book Morals and Dogma (which I found to be insufferable.. )

reply to post by On the Edge


Pike is easily taken out of context. But assuming it was even in context, last I checked Pike didn't speak for anyone but himself. His words have as much weight as mine, or any Mason on ATS, or in the World. But if I DID want a lesson in Pike's writings and his meanings, I would seek the advise of someone who's studied and understands his writings entirely, like Masoniclight for instance. Not someone who quotes sections and yells "Told ya so!"

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Well said

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by On the Edge

Originally posted by wiseone11
It all sounds like an good ole boys club to me...just a way for the boys to get together and have something to do and someplace to wear a tux..

Please view the video I posted earlier in the thread.

It is much more insidious than I think you realize.

I've seen all of those videos as well as studied gratuitous amounts of information that stated that Freemasons were trying to rule the world. I've heard every single conspiracy surrounding the implications of them being behind the NWO and sacrificing little children to satanic gods and worse. I actually delved into it so deep and got so paranoid that finally one day I had to pull myself out and say, "Is this about me actually learning something, or is it about me feeding my own fears about the world and not focusing on the control that I could be taking back in my own life?"

I'm going to tell you this right now. There are Freemasons out there right now who are struggling as hard as you or anyone else just to survive in this economy. There are freemasons who are losing their homes to the mortgage crisis and barely have a penny in the bank. This world is working against us all my man. Yes there are elitists out there and yes they look out for themselves. Yes, there is a general conspiracy to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, but, that design has always existed and probably never will change as long as there is such a thing known as currency. Currency is what creates the illusion of a "chain of command" from the poor to the elite. And, the elite will always work to ensure that they have the most "currency" to maintain their way of life and the status that it commands. Yes, Some of those elitists are actually even Masons who have branched off and done their own things, however, I think you would be surprised to know how many of the controlling elitists out there aren't masons. Believe me when I say a CEO wields more power than the President of the United States, and many of those CEO's have never had an affiliation with any lodge.

Anyway...if the conspiracy thing feeds you the fix that you need, I understand. I was there once. But, in the end, it is a very negative way to view your personal existence. If it all ends up to be true (and it won't, nothing is that simple) then consider yourself educated and warned on the topic. But if it doesn't, you've spent a huge portion of your life dedicated to something that could have been better spent enjoying the moments that you have HERE AND NOW, as opposed to worrying about an uncertain future filled with thoughts of a coming catastrophe due to elitists. Quite frankly, if it happens, it happens. Being prepared will only put you a half step ahead of those who are completely oblivious.

How can knowing the true face of the enemy, in this case, and in most that being the face of Lucifer, not empower you to stand strong in the battle versus him? He is behind every movement by proxy, the methods, the "storefronts" vary, but the merchant is the same.

I used to feel great angst and bitterness at the powers in the world whom I felt were all collectively dragging the whole of humanity down a maelstrom of suffering and corruption, and that grief led me to make very wrong choices and hold faulty beliefs. I used to think, for example, that an armed resistance and overthrow was the only solution, to free man from his tyrannical overlords. I used to say" If I could get one shot, and take out the guy responsible...."

I was a child then. I now realize it is a spirit in men, a want to serve himself, to glorify himself, to set himself up and apart. It is the desire that lit this fuse of events in the Garden, that introduced death and transgression into humanity, and for which we were expelled from Eden. That spirit is thriving in the world today, seeking to make this world an eternal kingdom, which my Bible tells me it cannot be without the blessed Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ at it's throne.

Yet men strive, at the behest of Satan. And that is where my "conspiracy fix" has found its satisfaction. I do recognize the enemy, and it is by knowing the enemy that I gauge who the Lord requires me to be, and where I project the path that Christ will take me. His will be done.

The CEOs, the Bilderburgers, Illuminati, RCC, Esoteric Masons,all are pawns, some willfully bringing his spirit to fruition in this world, which already wonders and fawns over him. I work, however I feebily can, to resist, oppose, and give praise to the Spirit which compells me. All we can do is learn, choose and act accordingly. I wish you well.

reply to post by On the Edge

But here is a link to the book itself online, for anyone wanting to check to see that this is, in fact, in their own texts.

Thanks for posting that link. I have wanted to read the book Morals and Dogma for some time. I have some times mused my own lack of morals is dogmatic!

Clearly there are a lot of aspects to Masonry that are mysterious especially because of their secretive nature and the fact that they use a tiered ranking educational system to distinguish the level of knowledge and experience individual participants have.

Mysteries certainly do invite curiosity and speculation and there is something inherent in many people that tend to speculate the worst in the face of the unknown as opposed to more hopeful outcomes. People just tend to be frightened of the unknown in general and if in lack of an actual definition or explanation make up the most logical one based on their own individual and unique perspective.

I honestly don’t know in regards to the Masons as there are many forces in the universe that operate for a universal good or operate for a universal evil.

It says something that it is worldwide and that their members consist of people from all religions and ethnic and national backgrounds. They would simply because of that be in a position where they could be a world wide force for good or evil.

Either way they are a world wide force so as Ed Sullivan would have said that they are big really, really big.

The original posters opening post was meant to have a negative connotation but of a very human, ordinary every day kind. One could say it was airing dirty laundry without really letting anyone see the undergarments. Kind of like a Hollywood Laundromat, with just the right spin.

By and large the Masons have used it as a wonderful opportunity to display genuine concern and put themselves forward in a pleasant well mannered way that’s been supportive and encouraging to the original poster and being the exceptionally intelligent people most of them are have done it in a very mannered and considered way while doing their best to patiently explain a basic understanding of who they are as an organization as often or not by politely explaining what they aren’t.

I would have to say it looks like a recruitment effort!

"World War III will be a guerilla information war, with no division
between military and civilian participation." Marshall McLuhan

Amazingly the Canadian Scholar who said that died before the advent of the Internet.

The OP is fairly clear, they want and need new members and fresh young blood ones too.

So the real question is, what are they gearing up for?

Are the Masons a force for good or evil? I don't know, I know though that they are a force and a force for something.

I have enjoyed reading this thread though. Very interesting.

Thanks for that link.



[edit on 30/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Or

If that's the case ask for the board to be removed, move your lodges to "secret" locations and keep out of view and out of peoples lives.



I don't get it . You decry secrecy (and not knowing the true simple secrets IS killing you from what I read), then you suggest that that lodges et al. be moved to "secret" locations and out of view ! Care to make up your mind here?
You protest secrecy, then suggest it ! What is your point?


(sorry! Dont know how to reply to a specific line yet !)


dont kow howI made this italics, sorry.


[edit on 11/29/09 by scooterstrats]Text

[edit on 11/30/09 by scooterstrats]