Originally posted by GrandKitaro777
ATS: I am a 32nd degree Mason, although if you were really a royal bloodline person you would know that it means nothing.

HH: If you have Genuinely attained the level of "Sublime Prince of The Royal Secret" through the Scottish Rite, or that of the "Order of the Knight's Templar" through the York Rite, and have not been taught of the Truths of Creation, then I would be very interested indeed to know which area Lodge you attend, as I would very much like to speak with your current Worshipful Master.

Naturally I completely understand and respect if you do not wish to make such personal details known publicly though. Of course. what you said in another post about there only being three degrees is true, for those attending the Blue or Craft Lodges, though as you've stated that you are 32nd degree, I'm presuming you are either Scottish Rite, or the York Rite's equivalent.

I hope to be able to be present personally in the event that you are ever invited to progress beyond the 33rd Degree. I would like to be the one tasked with introducing you to Lucifer. I expect you will likely come back and say how there is no further progression beyond 33rd. Well, if you're lucky, there will be a nice surprise in store for you, somewhere down the line. I sincerely hope that make it that far.

He didn't mention anything masonic, really???

All of this has nothing to do with mentioning names of Masons. Notice the plural. All he is doing is telling everyone ridiculous stories he invented about himself. Anyone can come here and pretend they are whatever they want to be. Your credible source is exhibit A through Z of this deceptive paradigm.

That little excerpt did nothing to bolster your statements that:

After all masons do run major political positions.



and



High level masons make up the rich and wealthy.

Once again; Who are these people? What do they do? Where do they meet?

Of course I won't get a verifiable response, the user posted here last year and his time was expiring.

His time was 'expiring'? Good thing he was only here to jerk everyones chain for a little while. He might have had people believing in the Tooth Fairy, elves and unicorns besides the trully credible story of being a bloodline decended from Atlantis....oh, and a Mason.

Originally posted by GrandKitaro777
The Illuminati and Masons are thought to be interconnected or undifferentiated.

They are only undifferentiated in the minds of the ignorant. The Bavarian Illuminati is no longer extant and has nothing to do with modern Masonry. At one time there were Illuminati members who were recruited by Weishaupt from the Bavarian lodges but they did not make up the preponderance of the membership.

The Majority of the awaken mass believes this, why?

Because they do not stop to educate themselves or choose to do so through spurious or poorly researched sources. In the worst instances they will cite fictious works as a basis for theory.

Because of Mason secretive nature and Illuminati secretive nature, not once has a mason addressed theses allegations.

This has been addressed ad infinitum. Use the search function.

To an ordinary person mind, a secretive organization that stays hidden in black shadows in the dark, make themselves subjected to allegations.

What about an orginization who's buildings and edifices are marked as being used by this group and their members openly state their affiliation with said group?

There are elites running the world, which cannot be passed off without presenting evidence that surmount our evidence. Which is insurmountable.

I will not dispute this with you. There are elites running the world, the very fact that they run the world makes them elite.

Your very nature (secretive), catalyze the claim from awaken individuals of you being these elites.

I am flattered that you think I may be a world elite.

Not one mason has shown a shred of evidence their secrecy isn't effecting humanity negatively in some form or being these elites.

And no one has shown that Masons, as a group, are effecting humanity negatively.

Do you expect them to not worry about your secrecy and assume you're just a dark shadowy secret organization that isn't doing any form of negative actions against them without a shred of evidence?

If they do not have a shred of evidence, then why worry about it? I suppose there will always be people who see a boogey-man under every bed.

Due to these confusions, the awaken mass are subjected to derailing lies from masons, "of being of no harm."

While Masons constantly hear from a paranoid few how we are somehow 'controlling' or 'manipulating' their lives.

masons in the guise of builders who are trained in all ways of how to create within different modalities things that can be commissioned are necessary;i would not recommend anyone try and be something they do not come into being as: elite or not. if human organisation advanced to a point in its existence where elite people had a caste and were able to organize their thoughts amongst themselves as whatever they are in their "eliteness" their duties are necessary.without glamor is what a man creates any less important.

i would not recommend an organisation not conducive to the state of your being.everyone is not cut out to be an elite yet you are.all people cant build nothing yet all people do.

im not saying anything new.the idea that a caste can confer upon an organisation means he was already cast to do what he came into doing.
the confusion comes from one group thinking, like; but, my group thinks: like.but is it illegal for a builder to not think like and the Illuminati to build like?

regarding the op: my prior post were ignored so im jumping into the newer posts, not relating op.

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Originally posted by Ausar
masons in the guise of builders who are trained in all ways of how to create within different modalities things that can be commissioned are necessary;i would not recommend anyone try and be something they do not come into being as: elite or not. if human organisation advanced to a point in its existence where elite people had a caste and were able to organize their thoughts amongst themselves as whatever they are in their "eliteness" their duties are necessary.without glamor is what a man creates any less important.

i would not recommend an organisation not conducive to the state of your being.everyone is not cut out to be an elite yet you are.all people cant build nothing yet all people do.

you seem like an intelligent person, please don't tell me that you think that mason=elite. Being a mason has nothing to do with elitism. It's about personal improvement and betterment of mankind.

im not saying anything new.the idea that a caste can confer upon an organisation means he was already cast to do what he came into doing.
the confusion comes from one group thinking, like; but, my group thinks: like.but is it illegal for a builder to not think like and the Illuminati to build like?

regarding the op: my prior post were ignored so im jumping into the newer posts, not relating op.

Your last paragraph is a bit fuzzy. Please clarify. And note, that not all masons are builders and the Illuminati was disbanded in the late 1700's.

Originally posted by Ausar
i would not recommend an organisation not conducive to the state of your being.everyone is not cut out to be an elite yet you are.all people cant build nothing yet all people do.

Nor would I. luckily, it's easy enough for someone to quit if they realize that Masonry is not for them. It's true, not everyone is a good match, and sometimes it's not obvious whether they'll work out or not. There was a brother in my lodge this year who at first glance seemed like a nice enough guy, but after we got to know him we learned how angry he was, and racist, and generally intolerant. Thankfully, he realized himself that he didn't want to be a part of our group anymore, so he quit. Honestly, I think we're better off without him too. So it was mutual. *shrug*

What about an organization who's buildings and edifices are marked as being used by this group and their members openly state their affiliation with said group?

Transient non self-damaging information isn't a necessity, I hope you know this.

I am flattered that you think I may be a world elite.

No, I think of you as a local mason that has joined an elite organization. Every organization comprise an elite that keeps the organization on track.

My accusation and the public accusation are these elites that run masonry are the same elites that run this world.

And no one has shown that Masons, as a group, are effecting humanity negatively.

It was well within my knowledge that there's a outer layer of freemasonry and a inner layer of freemasonry. A recent thread on this forum mentioned this information, and confirmed my beliefs.

The outer layer as I label you doesn't effect humanity negatively, the inner layer is unknown in it's intentions. Said to possess arcane knowledge of creation.

If they do not have a shred of evidence, then why worry about it? I suppose there will always be people who see a boogey-man under every bed.

I suppose they will considering no concerns will ever be addressed.

network dude;

i think masonry belongs to the same class of groups as a caste system; but their function is largely misunderstood; a class of people who are adept at past skills regarding building, and present implementation of such.the knowledge attributed to masons is largely because their buildings deal with subject matter that coincidentally deals with "the movement of mans nature, within the presence of such structures."
so, masonry does have aspects of elitism; how can you build a structure in what all see as a physical modus that also functions based on the need expressed from all: this is a skill, that when viewed objectionably is "elite" in practice.this label "elite" compounds beliefs of its description based on persons view of functioning "society" and members who make "society" function.


well ill just ask in other ways my last paragraph; with fortnote.
if the illuminati a class likened as a caste structure within society attempts to build a physical structure, is it illegal; would the structure violate "laws" that "masons" know to be necessary for a functioning building.vice a via a member of the illuminati thinking practices of governance knowledge illegal by means implemented by the masons. a question of theorycraft: topic, prior subject matter further expounded in past prior(most recent) posts.

I respect the fact that you're standing behind what you believe in. There is no justice in handling things within the lodge. I was married to a mason and the same "brother" who came to my home and requested my "permission" or "blessing" for my husband to become a mason, was the same brother who hit on me when my husband was deployed. I had already spoken my peace about how I felt about masonry anyway, but my husband was going to become one or bust. I tried to put my personal feelings aside and be supportive of his need for a sense of belonging.

This "brother" hit on me and I went straight to my husband, went to the grand poo-bah or whatever he is of the lodge. I refused to let it just go away. So, they held "court" inside the lodge, removed the secret articles (ha-ha) before I went in, and to make a long story short, this guy stood there for 45 minutes and did nothing but tell complete lies about me while my husband sat less than 2 ft. away and just sat there and listened. I worked actively in the community and with the families of my husband's soldiers. Anyone who knew me, would never have believed the things this man said about me, but the point was that he even had the nerve to say them.

The thing that made me so angry was that again, this was the same guy who came and told me how great masonry was going to be for my family and make my husband a better man and so on.

This organization just as do many others, prey on people who need to belong. It hides behind the charitable works and community activities so people often never see just how corrupt it really is.

The man above who didn't let your "brother" get away with insulting your fiance, you're more of a man than any of those lodge members. The handshakes, signs and signals, you don't need any of those. From what I read, you're a good man and only need to continue to be able to recognize these things to make sure to stay away from a mason.

To the OP, I'd highly recommend (if you haven't already) seeking a lodge where there are others in your same age category.

While the other members' behavior would seem inexcusable, there are other ways to defend your lady's honor than fisticuffs (i.e. brawling)...and likewise, your friend. Part of being a "better man" is the ability to rise above such attempts at instigating fights. I do hope you get more out of Masonry than your experiences to date...

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
In all fairness I have to preface this article with this: THIS IS FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ONLY. THIS IS NOT A RIP ON ALL MASONS. THIS IS A PERSONAL OPINION. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

I've been a Master Mason since June of this year. When I first began visiting the lodge for dinners and eventually to receive my First degree initiation I was trying to keep an open mind because it was very important to me that I become a Mason. Right off the bat I felt very alienated and out of place. A whole group of old guys and widows that do nothing but gossip and talk amongst their cliquey circles.... How the hell is a 24 year old supposed to fit into any of this and become a true and faithful Brother?

So initiation night comes around and I'm nervous as a whore in church. I will tell you all now that there is no weird sexual things, it's nothing creepy like that. A lot of ritual and walking in circles blind folded. You take an obligation over a bible (something sacred to be obligated to) and that's pretty much it. At the time it was very moving for me, but later I understood that the brothers really don't even like doing them. All they do is bitch about it. After I found that out the whole experience seemed very superficial and fake.

The second and third degrees aren’t much different than the first. And since this part was televised on the history channel I will tell you how it goes. During the third degree your big right of passage is getting bopped in the head with a fake setting maul. And as before all of this was very emotional for me and I took it very seriously.

Well after becoming a master mason and learning the big masonic secret(**to save a bunch of questions like what is that masonic secret, i will tell you... THERE IS NO SECRET, ONLY GRIPS AND WORDS WHICH I WILL NOT WRITE) things started falling apart... I was spending a lot of time with the Brethren and I started to see their true colors. These men will tell you your great and a good mason and then turn around to the next guy and stab you in the effin back. Hell I even heard a 'brother'... some one who is supposed to have my back no matter what whisper to another 'brother' that my fiance looked like a bar room whore because of her tattoos. Right after I heard him say that he walked over and offered me his hand for a shake and a smile and offered it to her as well!!! I cornered him after the dinner was over and told him if he ever said another cross word about my lady, I'd drag his ass out in the street and beat it.

Well that led to me being labeled a barbarian (HA like Conan?) who only wants to fight. Well I’m sorry fellas but when a man calls your wife a whore because of tattoos on her shoulders he deserves a good ass kicking. Mason or not.

It gets worse. In the masonic obligation a man is sworn to keep a tongue of good report, never to harm a brother in his person or good name, and to reach out and aid a distressed brother who is in danger. Well here we go again. After a meeting A brother who I used to look up to a lot offered to take me out for a beer to congratulate me on completing the Senior Deacons work ( a lot of memory work). I accepted his invitation and we drove to a bar in town that is owned by a brother mason. I was wearing a suit and tie and he was wearing a tux. As soon as we walked in a table full of hood rats started hassling us a bit. No so you understand this, I'm 6'2", 210 white guy and the brother I was with is a little shorter but about the same weight, but he's also almost 60 years old. The table full of little gangsters were all Mexican. Not a race thing, just little cholo hood rats.

I don't think they wanted to mess with me too much but on several occasions they tried to pick a fight with my 'brother'. So remembering my obligations a finished my drink, stood up and told the whole table that if they were looking for a fight then stop picking on the old man, I'll give you what your looking for. Near enough to an exact quote. Bottom line is I was trying to defend my friend who is much older and hasn't been on the streets as much as I have. Sure enough a small fight broke out and that table full of guys were thrown out. Well after that we left and I went home to patch my knuckles up and get some sleep.

The next week at lodge every brother and even some of the brothers wives were doing nothing but talk about that little scrape up in the bar!!!! My friend and brother who I had defended and even took a couple lumps for had gone out of his way to make sure that every Mason in my district found out about this little ruck down at the bar. His words to them were that was an animal and that I beat 5 people up.... He didn't bother to mention that it was to protect him from getting the crap kicked out of him or from breaking a hip or something...

I guess the whole point of this is after being around masons and getting to know them very well I don't trust any of them as far as I could throw them. Actions that took to defend my fiance's honor and protect a brother got so twisted and distorted so quickly that for several weeks I was shocked and very depressed that men I called brothers would turn on me so quickly. Instead of standing up for a brother they cut my legs out from under me.

I still take my obligations very seriously, but I don't think I will ever attend another lodge meeting again after this Thursday. I will be demiting. I will live my life the way any good mason should, honorably, respectfully, and should I ever see certain signs or hear certain words I will respond the way any other mason would. But I will also never forget these experiences that I have been through over the last year or so. And for that reason I would not recommend becoming a mason to any man. Just live a good, honest life.


MOD EDIT to correct spelling error in thread title )

[edit on 12/5/2009 by benevolent tyrant]

Maybe you just have a bad lodge? I'm sure they're not all like that.