I wouldn't recommend masonry to any one.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Understood fully but once you know that person is a Mason the situation changes does it not?

And there have been numerous occasions where I did not know someone was a Mason (because I was unable to indentify them by the means I listed previously) only to find out they are a Mason when I saw them in Lodge. There really is no perfect way to determine if someone is a Mason except by asking them directly.

If you want or need something your in a better position which is my point.

I do not go around looking for handouts. I am my own man and I can do for myself. If I ever get to a point where I may need some sort of financial assistance that is what family is for.

As I have said before, why is it needed and why would it make a difference if you are truly a good person. Help anyone and support them as if they were your brother regardless of what comes back in return.

I spend much more time, possibly 99% of it doing charity work for non-Masons. Whether it is the Veterans, local children or even animal rescue groups. They only time I can recall helping other Masons was when we would go as a group and repair one of the older members garage or help cut his grass or shovel the snow for example. But that is my time and it really does not have anything to do with anyone else how I choose to employ the same.

I feel it is not about that at all and it leads to the core of your group which is bad. Correct me if I am wrong please...

Consider yourself corrected. That is unless helping others is bad.

The truly good in your order therefore are being used and manipulated by the bad. And generally a good person won't see it unless they have been on the wrong side of the tracks so they carry on the process and convert the next set of doers.

What kind of retarded nonesense is that? How in the world can you know that I am being manipulated while I myself somehow would not know it?

reply to post by Zenlike


Yeah I understand.

But the more I learn about Masonry the more I understand the meaning of "You only get out of it what you put in.".

I think W3RLIED2 demiting and just paying his dues hurts nobody but Masonry itself. Just imagine if he never joined.

If masonry is to be the light that shines it only does so though it's members. And from what I have heard about his lodge Masonry really needs him at his lodge.

If you feel you can add to Masonry, to be one of it's heroes it's even more important that you do when things like this come to light. Savvy.

Learn from the good the bad and the ugly, have ears to hear and eyes that see for everything in life is a lesson waiting to be learned.



Johnny 5 ALIVE!!!!!

Here is a christian perspective concerning Freemasonry, its roots in ancient Babylon, its propagation by Jesuits, and how those who hold the Sola Scriptura as absolute authority view it.

amazingdiscoveries.tv...

The first 7.30 of it is the presenter apologizing to those whom he may offend, so if you want to get right to the meat, forward it past.

The neat thing is, he uses the words of those who are involved in the organizations, so in effect, they damn themselves.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by On the Edge]

[edit on 29-11-2009 by On the Edge]

Well my man, I feel for you on a couple of levels.

First and foremost, no matter what organization you're in, its always going to be flawed when more than 2 people are in the mix. People are very fallible, no matter what. This will happen in churches, youth groups, government, and anything else that requires a large number of people to make the organization work.

Second...there is a theme that I am noticing throughout your story here, and that theme is the primary thing that will always get you bad attention. You seem to be prone to violence and you're very willing to engage in it. Mason or non-mason, how you handle situations with your mind will always be of more value than how you handle it with your fists.

Believe it or not, I used to be EXACTLY like you. I would often put myself in situations where I prided myself as a defender of the underdog, or the one being bullied. It got me arrested, stabbed, shot at, and hit by a car. It also got me jumped by multiple people and hated (often by those I felt I was protecting) when I truly believed I was doing the right thing. I was wrong.

In this case, yes, the mason who made reference to your wife was incorrect. But, I've seen the same thing happen at churches, fighting events (cage fighting, competitions), school, and suit and tie events. It doesn't matter the event, there will always be someone there to judge you for something that they simply do not like.

Let the violence go. It is a corrosive attribute to have and eventually it will only cause you far more pain than pleasure. At some point I had to come to terms with this thought..."It can't always be everyone else's fault, sometimes you have to look internally to figure out where the malfunction is."

Have a good one brother. I hope you figure it out.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Well good for you, but somethings you can't see without experience and that wonderful thing called hind sight. Bet your father told you not to do things which you did and then realised he was right, but maybe not I don't know.

You have still not covered the point of masonic signals though really have you now? Not saying you are out for a hand out, at what point did I say that about you personally? Please quote me, it will be a challenge.

As I have said not all are bad and those around you may not be, you might be lucky. But you do dodge the hard points, and drop back to calling my point of view retarded. Wow that is grown up

I can be offensive as well if you like but it serves no positive purpose, sorry if you dont like questions about your group. If that's the case ask for the board to be removed, move your lodges to "secret" locations and keep out of view and out of peoples lives. But then wouldn't you be TPTB that are stoned so badly on ATS? or at least a mini off shoot?

Please follow me around and ask questions about anything I post, its either logic, common sense or a personal point of view which is just that (You don't have to agree with it). But bring an arguement or questions and not insults, you do your brothers no service with such a low grade response. I try VERY hard not to offend and choose my words are careful as possible, I can get my point of view across without using the offensive term of retard quite well.

Based on the OP and his turn around in this thread as was stated before the smells a little off. I got no response to my question about honour to his lady before the Mason's. Even you say family comes first, if someone had said something like that about my girl I guess if my worse side got out I would hope it wasn't a Mason as a judge at my trial! Because in the UK they are allowed to hide now.. And I am not a "conan" wannabe either..

reply to post by On the Edge


If doing what I do as a Freemason means God will damn me to eternal fire and pain, casting me down with the lowest forms of Humanity then consider myself Damned. I would rather be Damned than serve an ignorant God with a knee-jerk reaction of damning good men for association. Then again, I wouldn't follow a God that damned anyone.

I think we will all be surprised when we die when we are all damned. Or maybe we are currently damned and don't know it.

My younger brother of the Craft, I've been where you are.

Dont leave.

Many years ago, I was faced with a similiar dilema. Luckily, the person that taught me my "work" and I had become close friends (we were within a few years age difference). He and another older brother had already shown me to another lodge. Texas Lodge 654, Seagoville. A wonderful place of love and fellowship. No sniping...IST VERBOTEN!

My mother lodge (will remain nameless) had just had an election. Short story is it became VERY political. Many forgot their obligation to the Craft and each other. I put in for my transfer and was questioned (and begged) as to my leaving. I told them the reasons for leaving and the reasons for my new "home". I never regretted a second of it.

I must admit (with embarassment) that I havent been as active as I should but family and such takes care of alot of time. No excuse i know. I will remedy this at the first of the year. Its been difficult lately.

654 is a beautiful place to be. Old farmers, blue collars, and some well to do. The building is old (unless they have moved) and a little worn. The lodge room has Past Masters pictures back to the 1800's. The people are a blessing. One of the older brothers (he may be amonst the "celestial lodges" by now) was an absolute font of knowledge and was keen to share with any to hear. Euclids problem was as poetry when he explained it. The wives? Ah, the wives. They were mostly Eastern star but not all (you couldnt tell them apart and they treated each other equally) were wonderful. I always new I would be fed well at stated meetings! Bless those ladies.

Brother, dont leave. Find a new home. If you "put out the call" with an honest heart and dedicated desire YOU WILL find one. Trust me.

By the way, Welcome to the FAMILY.

HISTORY OF TEXAS MASONRY (FYI)

First Masonic Lodge in Texas

In March 1835 the first Masonic meeting was held in Texas for the purpose of establishing a lodge in Texas. Six Masons met under an oak tree near the town of Brazoria. They applied to the Grand Lodge of Louisiana for a dispensation to form and open a Lodge. A dispensation was issued and later a charter. This first Texas lodge was called Holland Lodge No. 36. It was named after then Grand Master of Masons in Louisiana, John Henry Holland. Anson Jones was the first Worshipful Master of Holland Lodge No. 36, now Holland Lodge No. 1. The charter was brought by John M. Allen and given to Anson Jones just prior to the battle of San Jacinto.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
You have still not covered the point of masonic signals though really have you now?

What signals? The Grand Hailing Sign of Distress maybe? Kind of hard to pull that off in a court room without it being observed. Other then that I have no idea to what you a refering by signals. Care to explain?

Not saying you are out for a hand out, at what point did I say that about you personally?

So in your hypothetical world where Masons only help other Masons, be it monetary or other, what excatly would you call this action?

As I have said not all are bad and those around you may not be, you might be lucky. But you do dodge the hard points...

What 'hard points'? How can you possibly know something that is happening to me without me knowing it myself? Because you 'grew up on the other side of the tracks'? How do you know I did not have the same exposure?

Based on the OP and his turn around in this thread as was stated before the smells a little off. I got no response to my question about honour to his lady before the Mason's.

The maybe you should ask him as I have no idea how to answer for him.

As for not answering questions I am still waiting for you to answer mine from several pages ago.

Even you say family comes first...

No, God comes first, then family, Country and your employment. Masonry comes way down the list.






[edit on 29-11-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by W3RLIED2


I almost ended up going for them. I sent my applications. But then I just had my application sent back to me saying I didn't put the date on it when in fact I did & it was still showing. Which meant the dude just chose to not read or needed excuses. They said their lodge was going through some renovations at the time so they wanted me to wait & apply a few months later.

But then I came accross some masons who told me the same types of things you mention here. And I don't wanna join the masons anymore. I've dealt with such people all my life & I don't wanna go into some cult-like group of rude hypocrites & fascists that call me brother, control me, & have me listed like one of their drones while talking behind my back, acting rude, flirting or making moves on me, using hints & innuendos to manipulate me for fun, & plotting together whenever they wanna have fun falsely accusing me alone of being dumb, rude, mean, & other things for not being able to walk all over me.

EDIT: Just to add, I know it might depend on the lodge as some posters mentioned on this thread. But I'd rather not bother joining anything until I can be sure.

2nd EDIT: People are just people. I know soem towns have more weirdos & bullies than others do. Its best to just not listen to anybody & make your own decisions.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by killyou]

[edit on 29-11-2009 by killyou]

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by eyeswilldeceive

 

I'm a karpenter not an anglish zdudent. I'm not quite sure that matter much any way... it's more about the kontent that it iz ubout the spelling.

Appreciate you pointing that out though.

HAAA HAAA HAAAA!!!!

Your since uv humer wuzent afekted aviousleee!

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Well if I told you that you had a nose on your face I bet you would argue but at least I wouldn't call you a retard. Your personal background means nothing unless it is offered in context of the discussion, mine was. So what is the problem with that then? Happy to go through everything line by line.

So you deny without any question that Mason to Mason no favour or advantage is EVER given over a non Mason. Well read the posts others have said it happens, your dream is broken.

It does so stop saying that you are like some superiour beings who do no wrong and cause no malice, because it's not true. Climb down off the tower, if you want people to join you that are not PR drones then you need to be a little more honest based on the facts. All this brother love this and brother love that, not really feeling that from you.. Your defending a flawed position and don't either have the grace or wisdom to admitt those faults.

You have not proved or convinced me that my arguement is wrong, because you can't. You know why because people make up your group, with all the greed and evil included. YOU have no control over that even if you do "select" who joins. That is a pure and simple (don't call me retarded) fact of human nature. You were never on a winner to start with, best you could have done was damage limitation. You are not all knights on some crusade for good, if you are it seems some show no honour or manners.

So please tell me what it is to be a man again?!? I think I have admitted some of my personal faults, but I am not PR for a group so you should work a bit harder I think.

I was leaving the thread on a positive note, with no malice. I don't intend to take any away with me on my side at least. Best we agree to disagree I think, this seed has fallen on stone which is a shame. There was some openess mixed in there somewhere with all the PR spin.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Bunker or Bust]

reply to post by killyou

But I'd rather not bother joining anything until I can be sure

Freemasonry may not be for you. Masonry is about the unknown.

I believe any group made up of Humans has the same outcome: The Humans have an unavoidable tendency to act out Human characteristics.

(this might be shocking to some people...)

reply to post by Rockpuck


You best mention that to Augustus because everything seems great in his garden

You are right though

Originally posted by rachel07
reply to post by W3RLIED2

 

The word for that is 'hypocrisy.' My dad is a Mason. He joined the Nebraska Lodge. I don't know how deep his involvement is with them; but I found out that as a daughter of a Mason-all I have to do is find a Mason, tell him that I am a daughter of a member, and whatever help I need, I will get it.

I have a friend, who needs help and gets 'They won't like it' thrown back at her. I have yet to find a Mason to come to my aid.

I dont understand "they wont like it". If I'm not misunderstanding this, she has asked a brother for aid and he turned her away? Unacceptable.

A lady in distress (or man for that matter) is WHY we are Masons. We are to be as the "guys in the white hats" that ride in to save the day when needed. Aid is NOT just for relatives and members of the Craft! My apologies for those that put her off. I cant fix that situation but I CAN renew my zealousness to help when called upon.

reply to post by Bunker or Bust

Cost to a non-Mason? You should always help those in need

Slithering Masons? That's a bit harsh wouldn't you say?

In reference to the article:

I'm glad Masons don't have to register when applying for certain jobs. The disgrace is that they were forced to in the first place.

Only 5+% are judges and there have been no questionable deeds, so what is the big deal? A compulsory register should be unlawful as it violates a person's privacy.

Justice for all? or Just Mason's

After reading the article I find your statement hypocritical and ironic. I say that because no one is else is forced to reveal anything personal and yet Freemasons have to? Seems like a double standard, one just against the Freemasons.

It's not a requirement for secrecy, we ask for privacy.

So when a judge rolls over a non Mason in favor of a brother and flies in the face of justice, can you explain how that is better for mankind? And don't say it doesn't go on because I personally know it does! Alot!

It doesn't happen otherwise you wouldn't rant about it online you would have done something about it, like let the other 95% of the Judges know so they could inquire. Could you tell us about some examples?

reply to post by Bunker or Bust

Conflict of interest? There should be none. One, why would it ever come up? Two, our Oaths don't interfere with our other duties. It would be unMasonic conduct in my opinion to usurp the laws of the land and intervene when a Brother has broken the law. I for one think that if a defendant or complainant knows the Judge personally the Judge (not just in Freemasons), all parties should know that before going further.

The Petition shows no proof that any Judge has done anything wrong. Everything you have given us is speculation. For one, a woman can't be a Freemason so this just shows the irrational fear of the petitioner. Also, a register is a violation to privacy. If there is a register for Freemasons then I want a register for everyone who is anti-Mason.

If you're going to come on here and say there is a fire without smoke you should probably have some witnesses, unless of course the Judges who are Freemasons had everyone killed off.

The OP has a chance to get out before getting sucked in to deep and compromising a good view on life, I suggest he take it.

You've only shown us speculations, so because of your unfounded fear we should get out of the Freemasons? You have shown no wrong on part of the Freemasons, but you have shown your willingness to put your version of the Scarlet Letter on a group of men.

Why would we want to hang out with someone who just viciously attacks a group without proof or evidence? It seems like a childish tactic really. Why isn't meeting at a Lodge a real great idea? If I want to declare my membership that should be up to me (you know freedom) not forced into some registry.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Can joining the masons put me closer to raising the venture capital I need? From a business perspective does it make sense to join?

Your question IS the reason you shouldnt join.

Second line.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Your personal background means nothing unless it is offered in context of the discussion, mine was. So what is the problem with that then?

Since growing up on the other side of the tracks somehow gives you the ability to discern what other people, who may be experiencing manipulation unwittingly, is somehow in context, then I stand corrected.

So you deny without any question that Mason to Mason no favour or advantage is EVER given over a non Mason.

No where did I say that. I even mentioned in another thread that I will patronize the businesses of fellow lodge members over those who may not be in my lodge. This however is all legal and I do not have any intention of particiapting in activities that would be illegal.

You have not proved or convinced me that my arguement is wrong, because you can't.

I have no desire to prove your arguement wrong as you really have no arguement. Bad people exist, some bad people may join the Masons. The bad Masons may do more bad stuff. I do not condone them or countenance with with.

So please tell me what it is to be a man again?!?

Doing for ones self with out looking for others to do for you.



I noticed you still did not get around to answering that question, good thing your bailing on the thread, it will spare you the difficulty of composing a response.

reply to post by KSigMason


Spectulation? No I have hard facts, names, dates, court evidence etc. Why will I not provide it in a public forum well I am not what Augustus claims...

Why do nothing about it, well stop playing games. You know very well why, seriously! It's the whole context of my discussion, you can't have missed the point, been banging the drum loud enough.

People do have to declare interests outside their role all over the place, company directors, UK government etc. But it does not cover Mason's..

So if I was a member of a satanic cult and wanted to work in your childs nursery would you like to know? Should that be disclosed? What can be kept secret for certain roles? Would be private to me, extreme example but I hope you get the point. I think a Judge is fairly high up the list to come under the microscope don't you?

Just a general question, is not Excommunication done by Papal decree? the OP's reason for Excommunication does not hold water, holy or otherwise. If the OP had to swear on A bible, what bible was it? a helpful insight surely, especially from one who has been excommunicated from the Catholic/Roman Catholic church.

Freemasonry like any other organization is an organization of man and therefore suffers with the same flaws of Man. Not everyone in Freemasonry applies masonic principles in their lives and sadly a lot of them do engage in unmasonic behaviors.

There is a huge generation gap in freemasonry and this Gap is filling up very very slowly. Over the next few years there will be enormous changes in the organization with more younger members taking over form the old guys. As far as the secrets are concerned, a Master Mason in the Blue lodge knows probably only 2% of the whole story......