I wouldn't recommend masonry to any one.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
If that was really the case with Freemason's then why the secrets? Why the funny handshakes, it does not add up.

How does me shaking another Mason's had differently add up to some sort of conspiracy?

reply to post by network dude


Well maybe one day, but for me it has to be out in the open and all true to the cause. I know that will never happen and you do as well.

If your honest and good you have nothing to hide.

Housekeeping is very seriously needed but to be honest it will never happen. The bad guys cling in there and will weave around you like the breeze, which is sad but you know its true. You are aware of what goes in your group which is real a shame, but regardless if you ever needed my help you would get it same as anyone else. Just don't do the funny handshake thing it would freak me out

It has been an interesting discussion, please think about what I have said though. I think at the end of this my point of Judge's and Political figures still stands firm, they are people and have flaws. Being part of a group with bad apples (which is always the case) bad choices can be made even with the best hopes. That is something I feel the people in those roles should not be exposed too and something which I personally avoid. No offence is ment at all, there are good and bad everywhere. What does upset me is when people start to read from an autocue as to what they need to say to the haters. An openminded and honest debate is always better.

Keep well, off to battle Christian ethics now
Just saying it makes me sad to be honest. Like all groups bad apples and agenda but there are many good people and many blind people as well.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Because it has meaning and that you will treat that person differently to anyone else. If you don't what's the point?

Pretty simple really

reply to post by Bunker or Bust


just to give you a chuckle as you leave, when I went in for my initiation, (first degree) My buddy/neighbor was there and stopped in the waiting room before I went inside. I was very nervous not knowing what to expect. he shook my hand and used his middle finger to tickle my palm. I thought "if this is the masonic grip, it's not for me!" luckily, he was just being a goober like usual. Good sense of humor, but for me the timing was real bad. Have a nice day.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Because it has meaning and that you will treat that person differently to anyone else. If you don't what's the point?

What do you think, Masons go around and give everyone the grip of Master Mason just to see who is who?

Pretty simple really

Simple is a good word for that theory.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


I'm sad to hear that you are going through this.

I'm not a Mason but very soon it will be determined if am to become one. I have been doing a lot of research and I feel I should offer this article to you.

It pertains to the symbolism of the compasses of masonry. Hopefully you take some time to read it and it helps you in some way if only as a reminder. Remember Masonry is about brotherly love, relief & truth but it's also very much about becoming better than yourself.

"He drew a circle that shut me out,
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout;
But love and I had the wit to win,
We drew a circle that took him in."

Compasses

Don't let them get to you, forgive them and expand your circle if you can. You are the Freemason, you have learned the tools to overcome this situation. Don't give up.

reply to post by Bunker or Bust


I dunno if you missed my post or not, but I went into detail at the end of the previous page of what seems to be the reason for the rituals and handshakes, as well as the secrecy you find distasteful.

Originally posted by Izarith

Don't let them get to you, forgive them and expand your circle if you can. You are the Freemason, you have learned the tools to overcome this situation. Don't give up.

and the student becomes the teacher.

reply to post by W3RLIED2

Wow, you should never feel alienated. As Worshipful Master I try to stay involved with all over candidates and new Master Masons. Some of us go and play Frisbee Golf on Sunday afternoons. We go and have a drink after Lodge sometimes. In my Lodge at least there are quite a few old guys, but we're slowly bringing down the age.

Man from your account, I would not want to be in your Lodge either. The Brothers in my Lodge are all about the ritual, everyone knows their part from memory. And the 3rd degree is my bread and butter, I love the sitting in the East during the entire thing. I'm also partial to giving the Lectures-the 1st is my favorite.

Sounds like the Master needs to have a chat with the Brethren about proper etiquette and good conduct. Those Brothers need to remember that it is the internal not the external which makes a person good. I would not have threatened him, but that's neither here nor there; I would have gently admonished him of errors.

Man that really sucks to hear you can't trust them. I'd die for my Brothers.

Have you thought about going to another Lodge?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Ok last bite, when do you use the hand shake and why then? If it is not to reveal who you are and gain advantage or a change in attitude from the other party then why?

Let me guess its a secret.

Safety question though, do you have to wash your hand before you do it? (watch out for that swine flu!)

And no I don't expect you to run around like an idiot playing some twisted treasure hunt version find the Mason. I am not some back of the beyond idiot, if you want to debate something then I am your man but I will "try" and not lower myself to that's a dumb thing to say kind of statement. I have disagreed with a lot of the rhetoric in this thread but not once have I called someone out over it.

Don't suggest I am simple or the question was badly put or be offensive when a logical suggestion is given. As they say s#it or get off the pot! It's a debate.

Share the logic or eat it up but dont be offensive, not what your supposed to stand for is it.

reply to post by KSigMason


Yes... a lot. But after speaking with some of the brothers here and hearing their sincere advice I'm still trying to think of the best course to take. I have some time to rethink things through. I know one thing for certain though, the brothers that I've spoke with today have really been there for me. It was a welcome reminder of why I joined the order.

reply to post by network dude


Well the words "Masonry is about becoming better than yourself!" kind of stuck with me after a little exchange of post between me and a certain little Mason..*Cough Networkdude* about a year and a bit ago.

I think Rockpuck's bonk on my head in that same thread also helped permanently implant the words too.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Ok last bite, when do you use the hand shake and why then? If it is not to reveal who you are and gain advantage or a change in attitude from the other party then why?

The handshake, when and if I use it, is typically done to confirm that someone is a Mason, not to determine if they are. I usally have determined that someone is a Mason because one or more of the following has occured; they said they were a Mason, I saw them wearing a Masonic ring, they have a bumper sticker or tag on their car or they are wearing some sort of Masonic apparel (hat, shirt, tie).

Let me guess its a secret.

No, it actually is not. As a matter of fact it is probbaly the worst way to try and identify someone as a Mason since anyone can learn the grips online. There are several quick questions I can ask that only a Mason will have the correct answers to, particularly if they reside in my Grand Lodge's jurisdiction.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


I have been thinking about joining the masons for a while but the lodge near me has a lot of older guys like much older and I'm 22 but after reading this I'm not sure I want to now. I know not all masons are the same but hearing stories like this it really discourages me.

reply to post by Sacrosanct

I love how so many throw around the word "cult" so recklessly. A cult is a group of people with similar belief system (that can be anything, any group).

reply to post by Qwenn

That's sad to hear. We kicked someone out this year for sticking his hands into our funds and writing himself checks. Some of his close friends asked that we cover it up and not press charges as he was moving to another State. They were told no and the said Brother was expelled.

reply to post by baphomet420

The body is a temple, but why not decorate it?

reply to post by Zenlike


Why?

What? does having a 6.2 foot brother like W3RLIED2 who is not only willing but "DID" take on a bunch of cholo gang banning poop heads sound like a bad idea? Not to me LOL!

To me this thread shows that even when members of a lodge don't hold true to what they represent and degrade masonry by offending a man and his wife there are very good mason like W3RLIED2 who bring it to light. This should not discourage you but only add to your convictions.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Izarith]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Understood fully but once you know that person is a Mason the situation changes does it not? If you want or need something your in a better position which is my point. Otherwise why do it? To know that you can trust that person, if your doing good you don't care if you get no thanks or recognition surely? That's not what it's about.

As I have said before, why is it needed and why would it make a difference if you are truly a good person. Help anyone and support them as if they were your brother regardless of what comes back in return. Now if you had said tradition or ritual maybe, people do those things out of respect for a long standing history. But you didn't and as a high level Mason that speaks volumes, not trying to ambush you but it is what it is.

I feel it is not about that at all and it leads to the core of your group which is bad. Correct me if I am wrong please, if that is the case then it has been there since the founding which is not a good thing is it. The truly good in your order therefore are being used and manipulated by the bad. And generally a good person won't see it unless they have been on the wrong side of the tracks so they carry on the process and convert the next set of doers.

I am not picking on Mason's I promise but being the person that I am I call it as I see it. I am also not scared to do it anymore (and I was once! Mason's do have alot of influence which does get used), which alot of people are. I have no enemies at all, I can take care of myself and anyone that needs assistance. I would not want to be my enemy put it that way, I have been on the wrong side of the tracks and know a little more about how the world works as a result. Not a nice experience but a very valuable one I can promise you. I have stopped and drawn my line in the sand, I will retreat no more.

Man,


That gutless piece of crap that knocked your wife is lucky .
If that was my missus that maggot would be eating through a tube .

Real Men Stand Alone

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I've mostly met Masons that confirm using the phrases instead of the handshakes, usually I only rcv that at lodge lol. Then again, I think Masons might enjoy the phrases more so, especially if other are around just to see their confused looks

reply to post by network dude


Someone tried to give me some change, and told me at some point the WM was going to ask me for a donation haha ... luckily for me the mentor that brought me in warned me beforehand.

reply to post by Izarith


Glad I could help straighten you out.. lol

reply to post by Zenlike


I'd be scared to join to after reading that to tell the truth. My home lodge was old guys, but honestly they were really cool and I still consider them friends, even if they were the same age as my father

Some times you just get a bad group .. this can be any age, you can get the same problem with a lodge in their 20's, 30's, 40's etc, so don't judge the lodge until you experience it.

You should never let someone elses experiences dissuade you from experiencing them for you self.. live your own life mate. Even if it does end up being a bad experience you can say you did it anyways, and hopefully take something from it in the end. But you won't know until you do it, otherwise you'll always be on the outside looking in.

reply to post by Izarith


I didn't fully explain in my previous post. W3RLIED2 does not discourage me from joining but his fellow masons from his lodge do, I think his actions were honorable and noble if not the best choice in some parts of his story but still honorable and I would join a lodge in a heartbeat if most of the masons were like him.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Zenlike]