I wouldn't recommend masonry to any one.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by baphomet420

 

Tattoos aren't whorrish, damn it. A woman who acts like a whore is whoreish. How the hell does ink inbedded under the skin make some one whoreish.

I take offense. wheather you intend it or not. If some one called your wife or girlfriend a whore and you were within earshot you wouldn't tell the guy he's outta line? I can't believe people sometimes.

PERCEPTION IS REALITY my friend. If at work I bust my butt for 7 hours a day, but no one sees me, and when the boss comes around for one hour he sees me taking a break then I'm a piece of crap. Vice versa, your colleague only works when the boss is around. Voilà! He gets promoted and you get angry.

This happens every day. I agree with you. A tattoo doesn't make you a "woman of the night." However, if I see a chick in the mall with a tat on the small of her back I instantly think, tramp stamp. It's human nature. If you saw a guy with heavy acne, poor fashion sense with coke bottle glasses, you'd probably think he was socially inept and not good with the ladies. Even though you don't know the person. Stereotypes are there for a reason. People with college degrees don't say ding fries are done, and eldery blue haired women don't do suicide bombings. A stereotype is modern man's version of passing down tribal knowledge. And just like any rule or law, it doesn't always apply.

You sound just like I did a few years back. And I'm not that old. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just offer friendly advice. If you didn't have any doubt about your wive's character, in my opinion, you wouldn't get angry. I used to get mad when people would call me closed minded. I used to want to fight them. I'd argue until I was red in the face. Turned out they were right. I needed to open my mind. No one has told me that in a while. I learned that people don't usually tell you things about yourself to piss you off at first. They tell you to help you. How you react determines their actions.

Just some thoughts. Still know. I don't know your wife. I'm sure she's great. I'm just speaking on mans internal struggle. Which I think every intelligent person, at least judging by entries here on ats are growing more and more every day. Try not to be defensive. Don't think people are out to get you. Most people only want somewhere to belong. When they get embarrased they usually get angry.

reply to post by Bunker or Bust

So if I was a member of a satanic cult and wanted to work in your childs nursery would you like to know? Should that be disclosed? What can be kept secret for certain roles? Would be private to me, extreme example but I hope you get the point. I think a Judge is fairly high up the list to come under the microscope don't you?

hmmmm for me, my faith IS very visible, BUT various ppl assume many things that are quite untrue, based upon their own background and beliefs... and i have the CHOICE whether to be visible or not. and to be honest, there are some venues, where i do choose to not wear hijab, and to not be identified, at times for safety, at other times for comfort of other people. (but i still practice modesty and wear a hat and have hair up under it, long sleeves, legs covered, etc... -before ppl start crying "hypocrite!", lol) but i STILL do not want to have to have my beliefs stamped on my passport or id card, as even some us senators and representatives have proposed, or wear a blue crescent on my clothing.

i may not believe what you believe, but everyone has a believe as they will, and seek the divine and to seek knowledge, so long as they harm none in their pursuit or practice... and i will fight to the death to defend the right of anyone to do so... it is a vital human right. i believe most faiths have basis in divine truth but have been corrupted over time, and i believe some were intentionally so corrupted by their leaders. that does not automatically make the followers corrupt, as a each person still makes their own interpretations, intentions and actions. a righteous person is a righteous person and when truth is revealed and the battle comes, they will be on the side of light over destruction. you never know what is in another person's heart, and should worry more about what is in our own.

only the maker knows. i think we will all be very surprised in paradise or in hell, by our companions...

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
In all fairness I have to preface this article with this: THIS IS FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ONLY. THIS IS NOT A RIP ON ALL MASONS. THIS IS A PERSONAL OPINION. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Dear W3RLIED2,

I am sorry to hear that yo had a bad experience.

The Freemasonry is a wide range of people representing all groups of people. You cannot say the All Freemasons Are Evil or All Freemasons Are Good.

If you had a bad experience with one group of people there, it doesn't mean than the rest of the Masons are alike. What you give is what you get, my friend.



Peace,
Mulder

[edit on 30-11-2009 by MightyWizard]

reply to post by On the Edge

Freemasonry has done nothing but increase my Faith in God and Christ. What is so wrong about that? Pike's writing are confusing and puzzling, but it's one man's writings on the subject.

I'm not saying the Goat is evil. So many things were "satanized" when the Holy Roman Church took over (see Council of Nicaea). IMO, they bastardized much of the Christian faith and moved away from Jesus's teaching and more into an authoritarian style. They lived in a city filled with pagan art and yet much of it stayed in place the church just changed the story behind it. In, ancient Egypt, the Goat of Mendes was the god Ptah, the god of knowledge and wisdom. The goat in many pagan religions represents knowledge and wisdom.

The only places I've heard about this goat ritual is on tabloid-style anti-Masonic sites. These same sites claim he was a 97th degree Mason and blah blah blah.

Pike wasn't arguing that Lucifer is a being, but rather its knowledge, enlightenment. Did you skip over my entire paragraph about the mistranslation? Lucifer is not Satan or the Devil.

I cannot be bothered right now as I am on my phone.

Also, my curiosity is still here, what organization were you referring to when you talked about the RCC?

reply to post by W3RLIED2


stop beating up people and thinking you're hard... ?? maybe the underlings of the satanists will like you!?

lol, what kind of thread is this?

i don't recommend the masons for ALOT MORE REASON THEN YOUR PERSONAL SQUABBLES AND GOSSIP BREAKING YOUR HEART.

bigger picture, grow up man...

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Good on you. I will say this also, I have NEVER known a mason to do one good thing without doing an equally bad thing as well. Duality. My deceased father-in-law was responsible for the death of my wife, I think he was a 9th degree mason. Through neglegence, I saw no remorse in him whatsoever. He has also screwed up our daughter mentally, pretty well too. After his first wife died, he remarried, and when he died, she went to the bank to draw out some cash to pay some bills and get some things and the account was empty. Little did she know that when you become a Mason, you pledge ALL of your assets to the lodge. Since she was not involved in Masonry, they took eveything of his. She was left pennyless and had to move in with one of her daughters back up in alaska.

We should revive the Anti-masonic party under which John Quincy Adams ran for president. "Freemasonry is fraudulent and deceptive, a seed of evil which can never produce any good" John Quincy Adams.

If you wish to know the handshakes, just read Codex MAgica, it's all in there. A book by Texe Marrs. Very good read.

reply to post by On the Edge


Masonry is not a religion. It caters to all religions, therefore, it makes it rather impossible for it to be one in itself.

I happen to be a master mason, so, I think I've got a pretty decent idea of what is occurring.

reply to post by daddio


that story sounds eerily familiar. Almost like it was told before under a different name. Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion. In fact you may be a lot like your opinion. And you know what they say about them.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


I'm curious, did you view the video that I posted earlier in the thread?

It's a bit of a time investment, at a bit over an hour, but the information in it concerning the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is quite, how shall I say... Illuminating?

[edit on 30-11-2009 by On the Edge]

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by Meesterjojo

 

As far as my ladies tattoos goes thats really no ones business but hers.

Yeah, but really do you expect all and sundry (especially those of the demographic you describe what I expect to be members of your former lodge) to have the same take on things? Realistically, every generation makes different decisions about what's acceptable and what isn't and there'll always be those diplomatically-challenged who'll let the world know precisely what they're thinking. They're mistake unfortunately although they'll likely not see it that way.

The perspective of age unfortunately.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
And masons sure as hell don't dictate what she can wear. Besides that she looks great in her dinner dress, and her tats are awsome. The fact that show support for a man calling another mans fience a whore truly shows your level of class and respect for the fairer sex.

Brother, bear in mind that each generation has its acceptable and unacceptable. Do you really believe that all generations will see eye to eye? Do you really believe that the generation that'll follow you will be acceptable to you in their differences? Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. Will you respond differently than your older brethren responded to you and your lady? Maybe. Maybe not.

With age comes inflexibility because we know all and have seen all. Some things don't change.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
I love masonry deeply. That is the primary reason for me being so torn up about this situation. I'm sorry that you don't think i have what it takes to be a master mason, but i am. And i will be the rest of my life, lodge or no lodge, this journey goes on until the end.

I think you have the wherewithal to be a benchmark as a Master Mason, brother. However, you also have to learn to take a step back, breath a bit, ask a fellow Mason (or other trusted source) for advice and not necessarily respond off the cuff. Too often, things are said in anger that are committed to the Internet where they will live on forever.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
This morning when i published this thread I was unsure about what course of action would be best to take. But after recieving so much support from the brothers here I have some serious contemplating to do.

I think that if you live in a biggish city, you have an option of affiliating with another Lodge and starting anew. Or you can take this episode as a learning experience about human nature (because Masons are humans (despite the assertions of those who'd bring Masonry low) and subject to the vagaries that all humans are subject to.

Learn from this and hopefully rise above it.

HTH
Fitz

reply to post by W3RLIED2
Your avatar is scary enough.

Very grusome.

Also, you are at a low level.

Service to self vs service to others? We are all one and the same, what you do onto another you do onto yourself.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Now I would have respect for Freemason's if they truly showed the same loyalty and compassion to all human beings and not just brothers.

Typically we do. Masonry's about making our society better for the benefit of all not just Masons or the Mason-related. My Lodge focuses on assisting a local battered women's shelter,

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
If that was the case you would not have to be a secret club for the elite or "better members of society".

I'm a presently-between-jobs television editor. Yet I'll be doing my bit to assist the aforementioned women's shelter and buying what toys I can for a local toy drive.

I guess I'm elite even though I'm unemployed, eh? @@:

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Why should a judge or political figure hide his membership?

Perhaps those self-same judges and political figures should proclaim their sexuality, political predilection feelings about the monarchy, eh? Why stop at fraternal affiliation? In for a penny, in for a pound eh whot?

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Surely if you practice what you preach to all of humanity then what is the problem, the truth is you don't which is why you like to keep it hidden away.

The problem is why do I need to shout from the hilltops that I'm doping something good because I'm a Freemason? Answer? I don't and I don't. I will do good deeds because they need doing, not because I want the praise and attention. Masons are specifically taught to do good deeds and then fade into the crowd as opposed to waiting for acknowledgement for having done what needed doing.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Why do you need a special handshake or sign to help someone that needs help?

We don't. I guess you haven't been paying attention

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
What's wrong with the word help? I am sorry it is sad, by your very words you reveal yourselves to be the elitest self serving individuals you are.

We do for others of all stripes and sects without expectation of praise. That's what Masonry (and I expect many if not most other fraternal societies) are about.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
How can you argue against this very fact, take a long good deep look inside yourselves. Some "Mason's" wouldn't know good if it run over them in a ten tonne truck! "But there are bad people in every group" well remove them then, its a private club after all.

We do. However like any organisation that excising doesn't necessarily happen with the haste that non-Masons might otherwise like.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
People don't need to be part of a group to do good,

Agreed. Some just do it better or more of it in groups. If it gets done, why's this an issue in your world?

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
a single person can help the homeless, prevent cruelty or any other wrong they come across. A ring does not make a man, his deeds do. And I don't restrict my help to brothers, or anyone regardless of colour, race, nation or whatever.

Nor do Masons

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
So in answer do I "feel" good, no. I know that I am good based on my deeds every single day, there is a very big difference my friend and I sleep soundly understanding the differnce.

Just be careful, one day you might be judged..

As will we all. The difference is I'll be able to do it without having felt as if I'm better than others. Will you?

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Ok last bite, when do you use the hand shake and why then?

In Lodge and only in Lodge unless the other person is known as a Mason.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
If it is not to reveal who you are and gain advantage or a change in attitude from the other party then why?

Let me guess its a secret.

No. As has been pointed out here already, if a Mason defendant were to come up guilty before a Mason judge, said Mason would probably be judged more harshly than a non-Mason because he would be expected to know better and is expected to hold himself to higher standard than the average person

But you don't want to believe that. It seems a presently British anti-Mason conceit that Masons everywhere are looking out for Masons and Masons alone. It just wouldn't fit with your worldview if you were to find out that Masons are harsher to Masons than to non-Masons, now would it?

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
And no I don't expect you to run around like an idiot playing some twisted treasure hunt version find the Mason. I am not some back of the beyond idiot,

Really? Your postings could've fooled me. More the fool I.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by daddio

 

that story sounds eerily familiar. Almost like it was told before under a different name. Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion. In fact you may be a lot like your opinion. And you know what they say about them.

I have told/ explained this here before, under the same name though, and you have read it before, your eyes do not decieve you, it is the truth though. I miss her every freakin day and have thought about ending myself. She was the love of my life, it has been nearly 12 years and ihave not touched another woman in that way. It is damn hard to go home to an empty house, just hoping she may be there.

And yes, when "he" died, the coroners took a jewelry box of rings and other things from the house, we found that to be very strange indeed. Didn't understand it then but since I have been reading up on it I know exactly what they were doing.

I think it is good for the OP to stay away from the lodge, but if I were him I would watch my back. These people are very negative and don't give a rats rear what or who they kill.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by daddio]

Originally posted by Zenlike
reply to post by W3RLIED2

 

I have been thinking about joining the masons for a while but the lodge near me has a lot of older guys like much older and I'm 22 but after reading this I'm not sure I want to now. I know not all masons are the same but hearing stories like this it really discourages me.

Perhaps it'd be more appropriate to see if any of your cohort are game to join you. In my Lodge, there's a similar age gape between the older members and the newer members that're coming in. I'm in the middle age-wise and recognise the take from both sides of the equation.

Perhaps the thing to bear in mind is that younger Masons are going to be the longer-term face of what Masonry represents and that the skew younger has to being somewhere (even if it's with you).

Also, bear in mind that the older Masons were younger once and you might yet learn something of value from them.

HTH
Fitz

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
Believe it or not, I used to be EXACTLY like you. I would often put myself in situations where I prided myself as a defender of the underdog, or the one being bullied. It got me arrested, stabbed, shot at, and hit by a car. It also got me jumped by multiple people and hated (often by those I felt I was protecting) when I truly believed I was doing the right thing. I was wrong.

[snip]

Let the violence go. It is a corrosive attribute to have and eventually it will only cause you far more pain than pleasure. At some point I had to come to terms with this thought..."It can't always be everyone else's fault, sometimes you have to look internally to figure out where the malfunction is."

Have a good one brother. I hope you figure it out.

Seconded. Not much of a response perhaps but I think that you have more to consider than what appear on the surface of you OP.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Well if I told you that you had a nose on your face I bet you would argue but at least I wouldn't call you a retard. Your personal background means nothing unless it is offered in context of the discussion, mine was. So what is the problem with that then? Happy to go through everything line by line.

So you deny without any question that Mason to Mason no favour or advantage is EVER given over a non Mason. Well read the posts others have said it happens, your dream is broken.

Ever's a long timeframe and I don't think any active Mason would argue an absolute within that timeframe. However, as a rule of thumb, Masons typically hold themselves and other Masons to a higher standard than they expect of non-Masons. Because we're supposed to know better and act accordingly.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
It does so stop saying that you are like some superiour beings who do no wrong and cause no malice,

Try not to. Don't always succeed in doing so.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
because it's not true. Climb down off the tower, if you want people to join you that are not PR drones then you need to be a little more honest based on the facts. All this brother love this and brother love that, not really feeling that from you..

Pity that. Like all things mortal, we're fraught with the shortcomings of human frailty. I'm sorry human frailty's beneath your contempt.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Your defending a flawed position and don't either have the grace or wisdom to admitt those faults.

We do. Oddly enough, 'tis anti-Masons who hold Masons to a degree of perfection achieved not even by our historic best. Talk about lacking in reason.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
You have not proved or convinced me that my arguement is wrong, because you can't.

Because no argument no matter how air-tight will convince the likes of you. That's not a shortcoming of the shortcoming so much as a shortcoming of the receiver.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
You know why because people make up your group, with all the greed and evil included.

T'is only those with an axe to grind who demand perfection from mortals.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
YOU have no control over that even if you do "select" who joins.

We're mere mortals subject to mortal fallacy and shortcoming and death. Just like every other individual born of woman .

Fancy that!

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
That is a pure and simple (don't call me retarded)

T'would be an insult to an identifiable group.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
fact of human nature. You were never on a winner to start with, best you could have done was damage limitation. You are not all knights on some crusade for good, if you are it seems some show no honour or manners.

We're humans trying improve ourselves. Sorry to have disappointed you in the trying. What've you done for mankind as of late?

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
So please tell me what it is to be a man again?!?

It is to be fallible. It is to spend a lifetime attempting to be better than you are. To bring something of substance to those who were born with less than you.

At least that's what it is to be a man of conscience. To be you? God knows. I surely don't pretend.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
I think I have admitted some of my personal faults, but I am not PR for a group so you should work a bit harder I think.

Your ego has been left unsullied by self-reflection. You really should work on that

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
I was leaving the thread on a positive note, with no malice. I don't intend to take any away with me on my side at least. Best we agree to disagree I think, this seed has fallen on stone which is a shame. There was some openess mixed in there somewhere with all the PR spin.

You've been less honest than you pretend. Masonry would call attention that that (as would an honest adherence to your religion). Masonry focuses on making good men of whatever religious stripe better. But that requires honesty, something you seem uncomfortable with.

that sucks man..

i've actually thought about joining a masonic lodge there is here in town,
one of the guys is actually a old teacher of mine in school, lol. but i dont know, they look suspicius (spells?) when they walk in there long black coasts, black suits and black suitcases looking over theire shoulders.

I've often wondered what they are doing in there, the courtains are always closed and the lights almost always off? hmm.

interesting thread..

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

To answer your question, which I think I have made fairly clear.

People in a role such as a Judge or political representive should not be a member of any group or association which may have the ability to influence.

Care to define for the readers what your definition of those who "have the ability to influence" might be? Judge? Court reporter? Janitor? Passersby?

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Various other roles get screened as well, people working with children as an example for the safety of the children.

What I suggest is for the safety of society. Unless you get some benefit from the current status quo then what is the problem? I think you protest too much..

Again, what's your minimum of association that'd not make you uncomfortable in a member of the bar? And why that particular threshold?

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
No screening for anything, child molesters in our schools. Stellar idea I think not.

I don't bail and I answer my questions head on.

We'll see and we'll see just how reasonable your responses are.