If that is true, it would be worth the 9 billion dollars to find out that a particle can prevent itself from measurement by changing space and time itself.

Fascinating.

very interisting - but if true who will believe it

I was at NASA for a lot of the big, complex system start-ups. There are always a lot of mission aborts before its all systems GO.

Keep on keepin' on and we will get there guys.

I'm in the pool for Higgs Loop confirming the SM.

Originally posted by freestonew

Is the hadron Collider being stopped by breakdowns, from the future, to keep the Higgs particle from being detected?!
--Several very distinguished scientists think so!

The Higgs particle, and its anti-features, can be understood in terms of quantum reversibility principles. So what's the problem? QED.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by havanaja]

[edit on 13-10-2009 by havanaja]

[edit on 13-10-2009 by havanaja]

i think most of u are mistakin what the article is saying.

"A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather. "

anotherwards the effect of us realizing the higgs bsosm was so detrimental to nature that it itself is stoping itself from being created now, not because it has intelligenc eor anything like that but because of the effects it produces in the "fabric of time" the fact its being put forth by two top notch scientists is mind boggling, great find, flag for it.

sometimes the simplest answers are usually the most correct, it just wasnt built properly, they have been pushing the line "Everything is fine folks nothing bad is going to happen" but the reality is that it isnt fine because it was obviously built with quite a number of design flaws.

i understand that the LHC has the potential to usher in a golden age of science, but i just dont think man kind is ready, for so long as the bottom line rules decisions, something of this complexity is never going to be designed right there will always be corners will be cut to satisfy the accountants and what we are seeing now is the result.

i don't want to hear any outright dismissal of these articles, or these kinds of physicists speaking this way. i'm sure these men are leaps and bounds more cold and calculating than you can dream of being on an internet forum, but some ats'er just coming in here and saying it's BS just pisses me off right now.

in any event this is bizarrely fascinating, especially how he describes 93' as an anti-miracle.

Some could argue we are the LHC, we are the higgs particle....

So we are stopping ourselves from doing something which could cause mainstream technology to start tampering with things it should not be tampering with perhaps?

Hmmmm,

I thought this thread was going to be cool for a second, I just thought it might state my general idea that time travel is happening all the time, with and without our knowledge, for instance, ever had one of those moments when you are sitting in a room, and you hear someone say your name or some unique statement, and to find no one in that room? To be honest I hate this meta-physical hooplah- "Like going back in time and killing your grandfather" WTF, The LCD is not causing its own failure, it is these scientists which are not releasing their findings because they are not as substantial as they proposed. BS scale reaching new levels, take care people.

SVE

nah i think this speculation about the LHC is just bull# people are just afraid and they write this ****

Well the past, present and future are just illusions according to Einstein. If the Higgs was indeed some bastard of a force, then sure its unleashing-effects whathaveya could ripple back in time and prevent our understanding and our perceived discover of completely, making it seem as if the Higgs was never released at all. But what about its future effects, would we not see them given some time as well, or do you think it just effects the past and its present?



[edit on 14-10-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by BaronVonGodzillaThe potential pay off seems to be nothing but justification or proof that God doesn't exist, which will satisfy nobody

How so? I don't see how this will prove there is no God... I am no religious fanatic, nor do I believe in "God" per-say, but I do believe in a higher being. Not trying to derail the thread I just want to know why this could prove there is no God.

Back to the topic at hand... I don't quite know what to say other than, damn, I want to be a physicist because the things they are coming up with just keep getting deeper and deeper into that 'gray area' that we all want to explore. And who wouldn't take the chance to dive into that pool of unexplainable knowledge? I know I sure as hell would.

However, if the article has any facts surrounding it, I don't think we'll ever know since the way it is stated it seems we can only hypothesize what is being said.

I believe it is said , these type of colisions occur all the time, as which the Higgs Bosom would possibily also occur, it they do even really exist.


The elusive Higgs Boson, they built the LHC because they thought the last one was not big enough, not what if this one does not work they are at a dead end, what build bigger one that also will not work?

Maybe Hawking is wrong, he needs Higgs Bosom , Maybe Higgs bOsom does not need him.

I think they don't know what to do now, so they will just guess and start to make things up.

Like that Airport in I think Bolder, Colarado it was all finshed but they could not turn it on, so they called in the Indian Medicine Man, and the Feng Shui dudes.

There is talk that a lot of these particule they have made up and named don't even exist, when you get down to it there is nothing there except your imagnation.

There is always the paradox of if God made us who made God, school yard talk.
Maybe we ujust created ourselves, trillions of years in the future and are just stuck in a loop.

QUANTUM ELECTRO DYNAMICS 101 [QED]

This is an area which most people haven't read much. With my paulty few years of researching QED, Quantum Physics, and Chemistry I'd like to shed a tiny little shred more light on what a Higgs Boson seems to be.

Say it takes 3 particles to make an atom. In QED one of those particles must be a Higgs Boson particle for us to experience it as material/real.

In a semi real world example, let's say we have lemonade. I swear there are lemons in there but it's never been proven because I can't get the lemons OUT OF the lemonade. If I spend $9 billion to break my lemonade into Hydrogen, Oxygen, and lemon juice I have essentially produced my answer.

There have been dozens of "theoretical" particles which have gone on to be known as real later on. It just so happens that the Higgs Boson might drastically change how we see reality, if we're able to seperate it, classify it, and prove that it's real.


[by the way, this isn't exactly precise but it's about 1000 times closer than some of the other answers on this thread lol.]


[edit on 14-10-2009 by notreallyalive]

Unexpected results are sometimes great for science. IF the machine is not broken, IF it works, then to have an unexpected result could turn out to be an amazing break through.

String theory gets complicated. There are 11 dimensions and mass and energy jump around and influence stuff, all the while keeping a constant amount of mass and energy in our own 3 (or 4) dimensional universe. The point?

Each of all of the galaxies have a black hole at the center. They consume mass and energy constantly. They spit some back out, but where does everything go? Some say black holes are attached to white holes, some say other things. What string theory allows for (as far as I understand it) is that all the while that our universe is losing mass and energy, we are at the same time receiving mass and energy through this interdimensional dance. (Note: string theory does not mention beings, sentient or otherwise dwelling in these other dimensions.

So it could be that the particles moving toward the speed of light, just as they do in a black hole, "jump" dimensionally. It may have appeared to never have existed, or to have dissapeared to us, but it may have found a new home elsewhere. And in turn our universe would have also welcomed a new particle of equal mass/energy.

Originally posted by 10001011
i really dont think they are insisting its alive, and freethinking, I think they are suggesting that its own creation, is such a " energetic " ordeal, that our efforts to make it, actually prevent it from existing as we want it too.

Kinda like, making ice by droping a glass of water in liquid nitrogen while your In a oven.

its gonna melt, but your still making ice, just its not gonna stick, due to the variable of heat.

Still doesn't make a whole ton of sense, but its like its on the tip of my tongue,



[edit on 13-10-2009 by 10001011]

I think you gave a pretty good analogy. This was kind of what I had on the tip of my tongue.

You really have to step and think out side of the box on this to grasp what may be happening.
My take is:
The conditions in which we currently reside in within the 3rd dimension which also govern the physical attributes and laws of physics, don't allow for the Higgs particle at this present time.

For example, which came first? The chicken or the egg? Something like that