I think the "abhorrent to nature" line may simply be poetic license on the part of the article's author. What the physicist in question may be hypothesizing (if indeed he isn't just joking,) is that some effect resulting from the creation of the particle is traveling back through time briefly to disrupt our ability to detect the particle.

Just a guess, though.

Hmm One thing we have to clear up first before starting conjecture as to why the higgs boson cannot be found and putting in ridiculous claims like these scientists have been spouting.. Is the higgs boson actually real??? Just maybe the reason we cant find it is because it dosent exist at all and the entire scientific community has been barking up the wrong tree.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by loner007]

Great post and discussion. I understood about 10% of this topic which means I will bask in "ignorance is bliss".

My questions are: how will this help my xbox360 not face the ring of death after only using the f##### thing a few months and how will this keep slow people from driving in the fast lane? I mean, WTF people? Do you not understand what the fast lane is for?! Christ almighty...

One last thing. I can think of so many other things we could have used our resources on instead of a device that seems to be doomed to fail by its own exsistence. After devoting some of our greatest minds and $9 billion dollars for 20 years, I can't believe we wouldn't have found cures for cancer, AIDS/HIV, made solar power more effective, found ways to reduce pollution, build structures so we could live on the moon, reduced traffic, etc..... No, instead we have this. Awesome.....

Originally posted by SiNDADDY
maybe it is some "post-higgs society" out there trying to "keep us down".

you re joking but you know it may be the truth, may us human are a race with a incridible potential and they have to keep us divide and down as much as they can because if we start tu unite and work for one goal we will be invicible...

I just have this to say. First and fore most. The people who are working on this are WAY out there. And I don't care how crazy some of you think this is the people running this stuff are way more qualified than ALL of you key board super thinkers here in ATS put together. Because if you were smarter than them they would have found you to work on these projects. So before you go calling them too crazy you might want to take a look at your self and some of the ways you think and some of the religios thinking you take on before you call someone else who has the resume to back up their crazy thinking. Do I like what they are doing ...? HELL no cause there are things out there we just shouldn't screw with...and this IMO is one of them. But I would listen to one of these scientist before I would listen to what any of the haters in here have to say about any thing dealing with the future. 20 years ago talk about the future like this in the open by scientist wasn't happening in mass media. Some thing is going on.

i think its funny that they are blaming it on the particle, rather than the company who built the collider.

fermilab did.

fermilab is their competitor and is seeking for the all-too-elusive particle too.

when cern first came on line, and it broke down terribly, was because of the parts fermi made for them.

BUT

then again, i mean weird stuff does happen in physics.

take light for example. it "KNOWS" if its being watched and flip flops between a wave and a particle.

if you observe light, it becomes a particle. if you dont, then it stays a wave.

explain how a tiny tiny piece of nothing knows if people are watching it, then you might can start to understand how a particle would come back to sabotage its discovery.

Originally posted by tsloan
I just have this to say. First and fore most. The people who are working on this are WAY out there. And I don't care how crazy some of you think this is the people running this stuff are way more qualified than ALL of you key board super thinkers here in ATS put together. Because if you were smarter than them they would have found you to work on these projects. So before you go calling them too crazy you might want to take a look at your self and some of the ways you think and some of the religios thinking you take on before you call someone else who has the resume to back up their crazy thinking. Do I like what they are doing ...? HELL no cause there are things out there we just shouldn't screw with...and this IMO is one of them. But I would listen to one of these scientist before I would listen to what any of the haters in here have to say about any thing dealing with the future. 20 years ago talk about the future like this in the open by scientist wasn't happening in mass media. Some thing is going on.

thats so true.

theres more physics knowledge in michio kaku's toe nail then everyone here, including myself.

i especially like it when the flat-earthers come out and try to disprove science haha.

hows the saying go?

to know one's ignorance is wisdom....?

Yeah, maybe that's the case.

OR, maybe the Higgs boson doesn't exist at all and physicist need to re-think some of their theories about mass and photons.

After all the Higgs boson was only a theory.

If I take the theory that the LHC is being sabotaged in any way, I dont think it will be forever. Just until we are ready for it.

Originally posted by chiron613
The article isn't talking about future humans (or aliens) sabotaging the LHC. It's talking about the Universe itself preventing the creation of the Higgs boson. This is an intriguing concept indeed...


The Higgs boson may not be "allowed" in this Universe, by some law of physics or reality. Whatever. That's for the physicists. If that's the case, it may be that when conditions appear to come near to a point where it might be produced, things happen to prevent it. Think of a road that won't let a car go in a certain direction. As the car tries to turn in that direction, the road's surface rises until the car can't make it up the incline, but must roll back down or veer off to the side. Something like that. The road isn't deliberately trying to do anything; that's just how it's built. You just can't go that way, period. As you begin to approach that way, things happen (the incline gets steeper, for example), and no matter what, you always wind up failing.


But still, the idea is intriguing. What if the Universe were built in such a way that it would somehow affect reality and prevent (or ensure) certain things? That's some imagination those guys have...

I'm quoting you because I think this was a really good example. I just wanted to add something that it made me think of: Grand Theft Auto

You get in a plane and try to fly as far North, East, West, or South as you can. Eventually, you reach the perimeter of the game. Your little representation on the big map is stuck and you are essentially not moving anymore. You have reached the parameters of the game programming, and you have to restart the game. This really holds true for any video game. Of couse, some game have preventive measures built in to keep you from going outside the parameters of the game.

So if life is a programmed simulation, or video game of sorts, then perhaps the higgs would be something outside of the programming; further, finding the higgs would violate the simulation parameters and effectively end the game.

I don't know. Just more useless speculation to throw out there!

1. Did the universe blink into existence?
2. Did "God/intelligence" blink into existence then create the universe?

Number 2 is considered to be madness by most people on ats. Why is it so hard to believe? That is just as possible as a "big bang" appearing out of nothing to create the universe.

Maybe "God" will not let this be replicated because it would cause the destruction of our planet/solar system/universe. Obviously there is some unseen force stopping them from replicating the Higgs Boson (if it even excists). And "God" stopping it is as good a theory as time travel. Neither has been proven but they both may be possible.

He was being sarcastic! Jesus people, do you really think he's submitting this as a literal "theory" to explain why we haven't detected the particle we're looking for?

That being said, it was hilarious. But probably not as hilarious as some of the replies this thread is sure to get.

my understanding was that the higgs was effectively the thing that gave a particle mass.

this means that everyone and everything that has weight, has to have this, but we cant figure it out where the weight comes from.

which is effectively calling it gravity. which we still dont know what it is.

sure we know its properties. we know that with a given mass of an object, that another object with a certain mass will interact with each based on the ratio of their masses, but we dont know what it is inside the objects that does this.

enter the higgs boson, also graviton.

the graviton is supposed to blink out of existence (or to a parallel universe) when a major event happens (ie... BOOOOOOMMMMMM), but we dont know why or where or what...

its possible that the higgs boson and graviton interact with each other, but we dont know that either.

we've never seen them, yet we KNOW for a FACT, they have to exist.

[edit on 10/14/2009 by mahtoosacks]

it has been put forward by some that the infinite universes through possibility theory makes this work in thatif we view all these universes as a river, 'we' i.e. our existence is like a raft or kayak traversing the one that fits our physical current 'state' the closest, which when we change streams to head to the most likely 'future, reality, etc' that explains the glitches we sometimes se ein our reality as we switch streams.

given that, it could be that any concurrent reality in the stream that creates this particle paradoxes itself (matter neither created nor destroyed, mass of the universe if fixed * finite, whatever else it needs to be, etc) and ceases to exist, removing it from our possible future stream, this making any stream we traverse for this instant to be one with a non functioning collider, since any one that does work, ceases to be.

trippy and acidy, and oversimplified from how I understand things, but adequate enough for the discussion.

Thanks OP for this thread. And thanks also to others for posting your thoughts and ideas.

To the few that have posted that nobody here on ATS really understands this whole technology.... well you're right! You can proudly shine your name tag that reads "Captain Obvious." The best minds in the world, including the engineers that designed and operate the collider also don't understand what they're observing.

I appreciate this forum. Science is all about understanding what you observe. A large part of new sciences and technologies is conjecture and theories.

The LHC may be broken, but it may be working just fine. That the results were surprising is not proof one way or the other. If the Higgs Boson does exist, it's possible that in only exists naturally, at least in an unexcited state, with it's conjugate. Like an electron-proton, or matter-black matter relationship.

Or, it's possible that Higgs Boson particles are occuring all of time in nature, and we just don't have the tools yet to measure them.

If the theory that something relating to time is squashing the experiments, it would have to be a natural force, dependent on our technology to get past; it would not be dependent on our collective enlightenment (IMO).

I postulate that the next experiment could have an eye to separate the proposed conjugate particles.