Large Hadron Collider being stopped, from the future?!

hi all.

Is the hadron Collider being stopped by breakdowns, from the future, to keep the Higgs particle from being detected?!
--Several very distinguished scientists think so!

Dr. Nielsen is well-qualified in this tradition. He is known in physics as one of the founders of string theory and a deep and original thinker, “one of those extremely smart people that is willing to chase crazy ideas pretty far,” in the words of Sean Carroll, a Caltech physicist and author of a coming book about time, “From Eternity to Here.”

I found this on twitter, then the New York Times science article.

www.nytimes.com...

Then it will be time to test one of the most bizarre and revolutionary theories in science. I’m not talking about extra dimensions of space-time, dark matter or even black holes that eat the Earth. No, I’m talking about the notion that the troubled collider is being sabotaged by its own future. A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.

Holger Bech Nielsen, of the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, and Masao Ninomiya of the Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics in Kyoto, Japan, put this idea forward in a series of papers with titles like “Test of Effect From Future in Large Hadron Collider: a Proposal” and “Search for Future Influence From LHC,” posted on the physics Web site arXiv.org in the last year and a half.

According to the so-called Standard Model that rules almost all physics, the Higgs is responsible for imbuing other elementary particles with mass.

“It must be our prediction that all Higgs producing machines shall have bad luck,” Dr. Nielsen said in an e-mail message. In an unpublished essay, Dr. Nielson said of the theory, “Well, one could even almost say that we have a model for God.” It is their guess, he went on, “that He rather hates Higgs particles, and attempts to avoid them.”

This malign influence from the future, they argue, could explain why the United States Superconducting Supercollider, also designed to find the Higgs, was canceled in 1993 after billions of dollars had already been spent, an event so unlikely that Dr. Nielsen calls it an “anti-miracle.”

So, is the Collider actually being Jinxed, by influence from the future, as they say?

[maybe if it IS jinxed, one might say that "real time" aliens are behind this!]

?????

thoughts?!

freestone

I don't think thats very likely. I mean we are talking a single particle here not an actual thinking living breathing person. Furthermore i believe it creates a paradox, because it would prove its own exsistence by letting us know it doesn't want us to discover it.

Yeah, time travellers are totally technologically capable of pulling stuff like that off. They can even hijinx stuff with a "psychic".

I wouldn't be surprised if the story got crazier and time travelers were hijinxing colliders for aliens and stuff

maybe it is some "post-higgs society" out there trying to "keep us down".

i really dont think they are insisting its alive, and freethinking, I think they are suggesting that its own creation, is such a " energetic " ordeal, that our efforts to make it, actually prevent it from existing as we want it too.

Kinda like, making ice by droping a glass of water in liquid nitrogen while your In a oven.

its gonna melt, but your still making ice, just its not gonna stick, due to the variable of heat.

Still doesn't make a whole ton of sense, but its like its on the tip of my tongue,



[edit on 13-10-2009 by 10001011]

I did have some nutty idea that if God managed to truely observe itself that would in fact end up collapsing all the uncertainty reality is dependent upon for its existence. All illusions are thus voided-- the end of it all.

Perhaps it doesn't go that far but instead any reality that observed the Higgs boson cannot be realized thus effectively never exists, even if it was briefly realized, out consciousness will no longer be privy to that possibility either. Occurances related to the failure don't need to have time travel involved nor seem causally related. Anything will do that prevents the observation.

Originally posted by freestonew
A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.

Is this Scientic Journal suggesting that my grandfather is so abhorrent to nature that I must go back in time to kill him? Does it matter that he's already dead?

Pretty big leap there to think that the LHC is being thwarted by future humans, not that it couldn't be true, but I would think Occam's razor would imply that it's just because it's huge and complicated and they haven't built one before. Have you ever seen pictures of it?

Surely you have, and don't you remember how much sheer detail there was? And when you noticed that down there was a tiny man, didn't you have a moment of realization, whoa, this thing is gigantic?

I did.

Anyway. I think they will get it right soon, but I think we should not play around with stuff like this.

The potential pay off seems to be nothing but justification or proof that God doesn't exist, which will satisfy nobody, God's flock of sheep will continue to believe and ignore anything that say otherwise, science will still smugly believe in it's superiority, and yet, the potential for sci-fi movie doom seems large enough to case me to say, whoa, hold your horses.

Let's solve world hunger, AIDS, cancer, oil, racism, the problem with the ocean, pollution, hell, we have plenty to do that doesn't require giant sciency doom labs.

I highly doubt it's being sabotaged from 'the future'. lol

On the other hand, if something was going to be, wouldn't it be the LHC?

Random guys says it he gets labeled crackpot. Theoretical physicist says it he gets labeled genius.

reply to post by muggl3z


I dont think you understand theoretical physics. Im not being mean

reply to post by BaronVonGodzilla


If we can blink everything out with this machine, then all our problems and every possible everyone's are solved. Total and complete doom is the ticket out of this superfluous insanity.

The collider took nearly 20 years to build at a cost of $3.8 billion, with a total expected cost of more than $9 billion. Knowing that I guess they would look for any excuse to avoid saying we wasted all that time and money for nothing it doesn't work.

DONT WORRY FOLKS!


John Titor is the one behind making sure the Collider does not find the particle. It's all easily explaned because the future he laid out for us didn't come to pass.
He found a way to fight the future by disabling the machine so RELAX. We are all safe!

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
I don't think thats very likely. I mean we are talking a single particle here not an actual thinking living breathing person. Furthermore i believe it creates a paradox, because it would prove its own exsistence by letting us know it doesn't want us to discover it.

For those of us who believe in the holographic model of the universe, everything has consciousness, even particles. There's good science to support it. Also, I like the idea of the OP because it makes an interesting story.

I thought you couldnt travel back in time past when the first time machine was invented. and since people are claiming thats what LHC could be, if it doesnt work, then how can they come back??!!

Some physicists have theorized that time travel would be possible through a wormhole which is two black holes connected to each other.

So at some point in the distant future addressing and time traveling through worm holes could become a perfected art. The consequences of creating a black hole with the new super collider as a historically known event would provide a time portal to our world according to Bells Theorem.

So what are they going to dream up next?

Thanks to the OP for providing this very interesting article. Now to the main issue that I see pretty much everyone has missed here. They are not talking about "people" traveling back in time, they are talking about the particles traveling back in time. Pretty much what they are postulating could be happening (and it is all WELL within the confines of theoretical physics) is that the very attempt to create the Higgs Boson causes a type of spacetime 'flux' that that essentially becomes reciprocated back to the point of creation, thus even if we make one, two, or however many Higgs Bosons we will never know it because the very act of creating them has an effect that cancels the creation out in essence. It is a lose-lose situation, according to those particular scientist.

I think it would be amazing to have every particle of my body accelerated to 99.9999% the speed of light. Besides the obvious death which would result from climbing into a human sized particle accelerator (the vacuum alone would be nasty) I'm sure the world might look beautiful at those speeds.

I'm envious of protons.

those ungrateful little bastards

Star & Flag for the OP - interesting find !
This reminds me of when Hubble was launched and it didn't work. I felt as if someone didn't want us to see something...luckily they fixed it and upgraded it recently.

It is possible that this scientist in the article is getting frustrated and felt there was a jinx on his life's work. Who isn't sarcastic after a couple of good fails to set you back ?
Maybe we aren't ready to find out yet...or shouldn't !
I have been following CERN for years - waiting...
still waiting...

Synth

reply to post by jkrog08


In other words 9 Billion dollars spent only to find out that creating the Higgs Boson would violate the laws of causality.

So now we need to use the super collider to go back in time and create a different link between gravity mass and energy that does not violate the laws of cause and effect.