Large Hadron Collider being stopped, from the future?!

reply to post by Angry Danish



All the startup problems are foreseeable this pursuit has gone on for a long time, its like trying to get a date with a beautiful woman. You know you are after one thing, you want the universe to let you manipulate its secret place where gravity and energy merge to produce matter.

She lets you buy her beer all night but when you show up with the fancy new LHC car to take her home she states that she couldn't face herself in the morning and disappears into the night.

Originally posted by BaronVonGodzilla

Originally posted by freestonew
A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.

Is this Scientic Journal suggesting that my grandfather is so abhorrent to nature that I must go back in time to kill him? Does it matter that he's already dead?

Pretty big leap there to think that the LHC is being thwarted by future humans, not that it couldn't be true, but I would think Occam's razor would imply that it's just because it's huge and complicated and they haven't built one before. Have you ever seen pictures of it?

Surely you have, and don't you remember how much sheer detail there was? And when you noticed that down there was a tiny man, didn't you have a moment of realization, whoa, this thing is gigantic?

I did.

Anyway. I think they will get it right soon, but I think we should not play around with stuff like this.

The potential pay off seems to be nothing but justification or proof that God doesn't exist, which will satisfy nobody, God's flock of sheep will continue to believe and ignore anything that say otherwise, science will still smugly believe in it's superiority, and yet, the potential for sci-fi movie doom seems large enough to case me to say, whoa, hold your horses.

Let's solve world hunger, AIDS, cancer, oil, racism, the problem with the ocean, pollution, hell, we have plenty to do that doesn't require giant sciency doom labs.

I'm sure the lab where the MRI, TV, and computer was invented looked like a "doom lab" as well. Same goes for any organic chemistry lab or high-energy physics lab that developed lasers, you know, the ones that make your CD player work.

I bet you believe the world is flat too.

How ignorant. Lets all hug and sing and wish for the end of all those ills you mentioned and and the same time shun science you don't understand - science that would be required to solve 99% of what you mentioned.

World hunger? Irrigation technology, farming tech..

AIDS, cancer? Medical research..

oil, pollution? Nuclear power, space based solar power, wind, hydro, solar research..

oceans? Cleaner forms of energy and more efficient recycling technology..

Racism? Give people something to work towards together so they aren't bickering all the time; applying themselves to the problems and solutions listed above, that are solved through science.





With the LHC, I feel like we are arguing that the Earth DOES revolve around the Sun!

yeh not so long ago people like Galileo Galilei and Neils Bohr and Albert Einstein were thinkingh things that people thought insane or incredibly silly !

but after a while they were proved right !

So lets not say that theoritcal physicists are insane and crazy , they are extremely intelligent human beings responsible for posing questions that maybe you or I could not imagine!
Without which no progress in the theoretical field could be made.

Whether the Higgs - Boson is causing this strange phenomenon if it exists or not is very intriuging and if proved would provide alot of answers for these crazy men of science!

i say keep firing those particles at each other until you find something.

my own theory on black holes is that energy is collected by them and then spewed back out in the form of radiation which is then collected by star nurserys and then used to create new stars! Like giant vacum cleaners for each galaxy

I believe the Hadron Collider is being stopped by it's own actions in space/time.
Remember those voices that at first sought to calm our fears concerning the collider?
When our concern could not be soothed away, we were then made objects of ridcule, and our concerns became the butt of jokes as we were painted as un-educated clowns.
"NOTHING CAN GO WRONG WITH THE LARGE HADRON COLLIDER" they thundered from thier bully pulpits....right before a few million dollars worth of hardware went up in smoke on start up.
This was not "NOTHING", this was part of the accelerator, as well as part of the containmentthat was supposed to keep any black holes created from
finding more to eat as it went out of control, and devoured our little backwater in this unremarkable spiral arm of the Milky Way.
Super conducting super colliders are not things we should allow at this time.
When a scientist tells you what he thinks something might do when activated, but says he cannot say for certain what will happen, then closes with "nothing can go wrong." You know you do not want to be anywhere near the device when it is switched on, because scientists are ALWAYS WRONG when they claim that "NOTHING CAN GO WRONG".
What happened on start-up of the Large Hadron Collider?
SOMETHING WENT WRONG.
Next time maybe alien warships will come melt the darned thing with thier plasma cannons.
That would make the 6 o'clock news rather more interesting than hearing about which starlet has checked into the Betty Ford Clinic.
Just my over-arching declaration.



[edit on 14-10-2009 by Luminaught]

Well done for a thread that asks such an intriguing question, instead of hitting me with "believe me, or else!" statements.

The time-travel hypotheses has been relitively well covered in the media. But this angle - that it's being sabortaged to prevent the Higs particle has a great ring of logic about it, not to mention the film-script neatness of it.

However, most interesting of all - which many replies seem to have missed - is the suggestion that it's not future time-travellers committing the sabortage, but nature itself conspirining to prevent this 'abhorent' event from taking place. That's a really elegent idea that's makes my head hurt in a marvelous way. Thanks

As Wayne Szalinski said in 1989 ... THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!!

Or maybe we have simply overlooked this and God doesnt want us to see the higgs boson !

hahahhahaha

I picture it like the toy some of us had as children with the different shapes that have to fit inside the matching shapes holes. The Higgs is not designed to fit inside our time or space. And just like when you would force the circle shape inside the square hole the structural integrity of the square hole is modified just as we may modify our time and space by forcing colliders like THE L.H.C. TO PULL HIGGS THRU TO OUR DIMENSION. Also there are particals that may be as big as GALAXIES, so imagine trying to pull them into our dimension.

[edit on 10/14/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

I would suggest, at the risk of being correct, that no one, including myself, here at ATS knows anything at all about particle physics and the LHC.

reply to post by djusdjus


Yeh we all know things , but we dont know the hardcore facts !

we all know what they are trying to do , but we dont know the real physics behind it so we all theorise !

the higgs boson had to be stable in our dimension because if it wasnt then how could the big bang have taken place and produced the higgs boson to which it then decayed into other particles!

"Large Hadron Collider being stopped, from the future?!"

If anyone's interested I wrote a 17 page short story about this very subject over a year ago, which can be read by clicking either this link, or the Solid Objects Cast At Goblins link in my signature.

My theories have since been duplicated several times in popular culture, but I got there first.

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate


im sorry this thread drifts off topic but its just to correct a reply further up.

perhaps im wrong...i dont think worm holes are the proposed method of time travel...worm holes are the method of instant travel (a form of teleportation). a way to get from one place to another instantly without traversing the distance between those 2 places.

A black hole is a dead star...a star that died...imploded...and collapsed in on its self. the mass of the star has been squashed in so much that the dead star is so dense and heavy its force of gravity is immense...so immense that NOTHING not even light...can escape its pull...which is why they are called black holes and that you can not actually see them. you can tell where a black hole is however because you can see around the point at which the dead stars gravitational pull is sucking in the light. so you can see where the light is once again strong enough to get away. (also known as the event horizon)

and worm holes re NOT the product of 2 connecting black holes.
although nobody knows how worm holes are formed it is sed they occur during the bending of space to connect 2 locations.

for example...consider your bed sheet to be space and time...for an ant to get from one end to the other it has to walk across it and this takes time...the ant needs to get to the other end instantly tho right?...so it waits untill you come along to change the sheets...you pick up your sheet and you fold it in half....by doing this you have just joined the 2 ends together right? the ant can simply step across from his side to the other instantly and when you unfold the sheet...the ant is on the other side


so...when space bends...a wormhole is the connection between the 2 parts of space that have been brought together.

black holes are very heavy and is thort that they do actually bend space...but they do not form worm holes.

reply to post by freestonew


I know this is far fetched and a weird idea, but maybe... only maybe, the failures preventing the LHC from starting are engineering errors and faults like we encounter with other more mundane hardware..... it's not like we ever goof anything up when building one of a kind machines...





-rrr

Originally posted by djusdjus
I would suggest, at the risk of being correct, that no one, including myself, here at ATS knows anything at all about particle physics and the LHC.

Much of physics is hypothesis, rendered as theory in numerical form, thus most "theories" are not.
I can write numerical "explanations" requiring in some instances many, many pages.
I have more than a mere association with particle physics and energetic states of matter.
However, you are a prize winner!
Please select a pet from Schrodinger's Pet Store!
Be sure to wave!

reply to post by Luminaught


No one ever claimed that "nothing can go wrong" with the LHC. That sort of claim became highly unpopular, just about the time the Titanic sank.

What the scientists said was that the various doomsday scenarios that people imagined, where the LHC would cause the end of the world or even the Universe, weren't going to happen. Huge difference.

No one on a project of this size and complexity expects it to work right the first time. In fact there is a cynical engineering maxim that says, "If everything is working as planned, you've obviously overlooked something". Things never go as planned. That's what makes it research.

I watched a NOVA episode on absolute zero last night. Toward the end they got into Bose-Einstein Condensates, I guess you could say it's where matter loses it structure. It has some interesting properties like slowing light down to a crawl as it passes through the condensate. Very intersting stuff. Anyways, I thought of the Higgs particle and why couldn't you find it in a condensate instead of smashing partilces. I know high energy and all that, but if you used the condensate as a target what would happen? I mean this condensate had to be around at the big bang.

There might be some truth to it all, it sounds very Biblical as the end and the beginning of time seem to meet.

Maybe it is too close to the power of the Holy Spirit and it it self is stopping this machine accessing the Godly powers which through ungodly means cuts it self off, it would make sense in those similar terms.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by The time lord]

Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo
reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate

 

A black hole is a dead star...a star that died...imploded...and collapsed in on its self. the mass of the star has been squashed in so much that the dead star is so dense and heavy its force of gravity is immense...so immense that NOTHING not even light...can escape its pull...which is why they are called black holes and that you can not actually see them. you can tell where a black hole is however because you can see around the point at which the dead stars gravitational pull is sucking in the light. so you can see where the light is once again strong enough to get away. (also known as the event horizon)

We have in our locality a very small black hole. We know it's out there, in our neck of the universe, but so far we can't locate it, weird huh?
I'd think a neutron star's collapse could create some seriously high strangeness.
We think black holes are formed by the collapse of stars, but we have yet to prove it, turning "theory" back into hypothsis.
There is no evidence that wormholes exist, nor is there evidence they would bend space creating an express lane for interstellar travelers.
That is all sci-fi stuff.
Just my authoritive over-arching declaration.

I wonder if they will show what situation generated that theory on the next Big Bang Theory episode, so that's what Sheldon does lol

I think 10001011 is onto something. These guys aren't suggesting that someone or something is coming back from the future to sabotage the machine. What they're talking about is a sort of reverse butterfly effect from the future caused by quantum entanglement.

I'm no physicist but I think what they're getting at is this.

Quantum entanglement has demonstrated that all the particles in the universe are intrinsically connected and, given the right circumstances can use this connection to instantaneously travel to any point in time or space including the past.

10 years from now the collider succeeds in creating Higgs Boson, but the particle is so at odds with nature that it effects the elements in its past that brought it into existence in a negative way. This sends a ripple through time affecting every particle that helped in it's creation.

like the butterfly beating it's wing causing a tornado in the future, the Higgs Boson sends a negative effect back through time, expanding as it goes, so reverse spin on an atom becomes a technical malfunction in the collider in the past.

Seems crazy but it makes a kind of sense.