Were The Terrorists Right All Along?

reply to post by 27jd


Alright, my mistake.

Cheers.

reply to post by mf_luder


Well how can it not be ?

the point is the basis is it not? as one poster pointed out "HOLY WAR" would this not in on its self be the reason for the fanatics? or the "apperence" of such in the message?

you are christian get off my land becuase we are muslim?

do you see how this little script works?

Granted you fight to "keep" your "idiological" reasons going

when in fact the very nature of the beast is to do just that?

why have an army in the first place one will ask ones self? to defend my values correct? and the values of ones self is based on ? you got it GOD

so in some respects the war being waged is not about LAND or MONEY but about who controls the masses based on who has the best way of making the avrage joe more STUPID

its very clear, in fact its so clear people overlook the issue

and yes it is sad

lets go kill some poor guys based on 2000 years of history that was in its self a LIE

go figure

the ironic part is people still use RACE as a word to describe the colour and culture of a person when in fact it as a word is miss used and miss understood

race = HUMAN RACE

not the colour of ones skin or the "god" one wishes to put faith in because they are to scared to admit they are pointless

sooner you wake up to the fact you are no better than my cat or the tree in my garden and you function the same way

the world will always be in trouble and used and abused by people just like me who understand the complex nature of propaganda and the very real aspect of using you like a slave..

shall i keep going or is it that the truth is to funny ?

Originally posted by dooper
Intelligence can tell you that an attack is going to occur, but not on what day. Now if you don't know when an attack is supposed to occur, then who in hell is going to be able to figure out specifically what target, in what city, what state, in what manner of attack, and by whom the attack is coming. From what direction and how many?

So, you would COMPLETELY ignore the intel, because you don't have the exact specifics? No warnings to the airlines, or pre-emptive security upgrades? Intel rarely provides specifics, and that hasn't stopped others from taking precautions in the face of warnings, the Bush administration did NOTHING, at all. I'm QUITE sure if 9/11 happened under Obama, you wouldn't be defending a DAMN thing.

reply to post by symmetricAvenger

I don't think you get it yet.

If A says to B, I'm declaring war on you, then if you're A, and you ignore B, he'll eventually kill your ass dead.

This religious war - in essence a Holy War - was declared by Muslims to wage a war on mankind - which they began in AD 632, and it continued unabated until 732, when Charles Martel defeated them at Tours. The violent spread wasn't stopped until AD 782 under the Caliph Haroun Al Rashid.

Now it's started up again. Same players, same religion, same prophet, and same methods.

Now while you're scanning the horizon for boogie men, don't neglect the viper already sitting between your feet, fangs bared to strike.

There is a Holy War, it's game on, and most folks are so ignorant of Islam, including a lot of Muslims, that they don't want to find out the true implications and how it will affect them and theirs.

I would suggest you sit this one out anyway.

reply to post by 27jd


That's exactly what I said! Are you that dense, or - OHHHH!

You're an Obama worshiper!

And because I detest that dumbass, you feel compelled to make things up.

No more off topic responses.

As I said earlier, intelligence is always fragmented, and to assume the government failed to heed the warnings is just outright stupid.

Can we stay on topic?

reply to post by dooper


Doper asking to stay on topic

That's freakin rich!

reply to post by breakingdradles


That's me!

Anything to keep things moving.

reply to post by dooper


This religious war - in essence a Holy War - was declared by Muslims to wage a war on mankin

do you even understand what it is you are saying???????

This religious war? in essence? a holy war LOL was "declared" by Muslims? to wage war on "mankind"

reads like a SCI-FI book ..

This - in context would be your reality
war would mean a miss understanding of the given subject
In essence - would mean you are correlating one subject with another and to justify it you use ignorance..
Holy war - would mean that in fact my statement about the human condition is correct "more so yours" by your very statement make the point in case valid...

Muslims - are the same as the fanatics that use to burn people like us for saying the world was round and called you a hieratic correct?

so by saying what you say makes your point Not valid and makes you as much as a sheep as your fellow "so called HOLY war movement / terrorists "

very pointless and very very hypercritical considering your books are full of lies and manipulation to begin with..

we can debate this till the cows come up, but then again i have no bias in regards to any god or any persons system

they are false and i will indeed point it out clear as the sun shines how false your statements are and others.

The trick is not about YOU but about THEM..

Originally posted by dooper
If A says to B, I'm declaring war on you, then if you're A, and you ignore B, he'll eventually kill your ass dead.

Terrorists do not have the ability to "declare war". They aren't a country, they are a loosely associated bunch of fanatical extremists, why do you knowingly exaggerate that? There are criminal groups of thugs all over the world, many here in the U.S. Just like Pablo Escobar, these situations should be handled by special forces, not an open war. All that does is create more enemies for ourselves, and it's not in any way honorable or humane to knowingly perpetuate a situation to create a need to kill so many, for "security" from some backwards extremist organizations that could be much more easily dispatched in a precision manner.

Originally posted by dooper
That's exactly what I said!

Sure, i agree with you about intel being shaky. But that doesn't mean you IGNORE it completely because you don't have specifics. A blanket public warning to the people and the airlines would have been a good idea, at the very least. They were warned of the possibility they wanted to use airliners as weapons before 9/11, that's verifiable fact. If people had been made aware of that beforehand, they may have all ended like the plane in PA. Before this, hijackings usually resulted in a landing and negotiations. 9/11 would never happen again, people would panic and overwhelm the hijackers guaranteed.

You're an Obama worshiper!

Nothing could be further from the truth. I dislike this administration, just as i did the last. I don't like any of the corporate owned partisan career politicians, i'm even skeptical of ron paul. I am a gun enthusiast, and i enjoy my right to bear arms. I am not the liberal hippy you think i am. I think the whole system needs to change, but it would take people letting go of the partisan BS and coming together and demanding real change, they need us way more than we need them. That's why the only way they maintain control is through manipulation of the masses. I know you won't see that, you won't let yourself.

As I said earlier, intelligence is always fragmented, and to assume the government failed to heed the warnings is just outright stupid.

I feel they failed to heed the warnings, because they wanted to pursue a more aggressive mid-east policy. I'm not 100% sure, obviously, but that's what my gut tells me. You don't have to agree. I don't think they knew what magnitude it would be, i think that surprised everybody, including bin laden. So many governments in the past have accepted the sacrifice of some innocents to achieve a greater goal, it seems to be a common practice.

reply to post by dooper


and i can call you dense also?

does that further the topic or are you going to stroke you own miss informed ego?

because from were i am sitting you are VERY miss understood in the posts i have read..

let alone the cracker about HOLY war.. this in its own shows the ineptness of your intelligence.

now shall we continue or are you going to use semantics to prove a point that was not valid in the first place

considering the amount of stars next to your name im getting worried..

was it you who said HOLY WAR

this would in fact be over looked as a comment.. if your IQ is that of GWB and co..

so the next time you wish to paraphrase this debate into some ideological nonsensical argument about a HOLY war

go to your left AND read them books you tout

because im sorry to say .. the person on the other end of this medium is a lot smarter than YOU are..

if you do not like what i just said feel free to comment on WHY it is you say a holy war is in fact happening other than the bull... you watch on your tv or read in books?



[edit on 14-9-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

[edit on 14-9-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

reply to post by mf_luder


No problem. Again, thank you for your service. I would never have a problem with a soldier who respects the opinions of all americans, and stands just as ready to defend those they disagree with.

reply to post by symmetricAvenger

Look, you can be just as ignorant as you wish.

I grow weary of this.

You've never read the writings of Bukhari, Tabari, Ishaq, and I imagine you've never been exposed to the Qur'an, since you obviously don't know **** about what's in the New and Old Testaments.

"Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him (Muhammed) we are pledging to wage war against all mankind." Ishaq: 204

"Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. (Until) We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace." Ishaq:587

"Jihad is holy fighting within Allah's Cause with full force of members and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's word is made superior, and Islam is propogated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.

Noble Qur'an 2:190 Footnote.

You can have it.




[edit on 14-9-2009 by dooper]

[edit on 14-9-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by 27jd


My God..we finally have some common sense in here...

Dooper likes to think as everyone (or at least those of us who disagree with him) as some bleeding heart liberal...

somehow he comes to conclusions about you in a 2 or 3 sentence reply..

hey...it happens to the best of us...we are all human...and we all judge...

but thank you whole heartedly...I have been screaming from the rooftops and jumping up and down how this "war" on terrorism should be an extended special operations campaign...with air support... for the last 4 years...

dont know why people cant get it...but i do know why people like dooper dont like to recognize it...it would mean they might have to admit they are wrong...wrong about afhganistan, and sure in the hell wrong about Iraq...

nothing about either of those wars has kept us safe...alls it has done is breed hatred...hatred that is going to turn around on us...eventually...

Dooper, how would you react if your son had died because some stray missile hit your house? What about your wife? Think you wouldnt take revenge anyway possible? From reading many of your posts, i would say its a sure thing...have no fear though...i would be right there too...

Yes, the "terrorists" are correct. Our western governments are the enemy.

It reminds me of a certain work of fiction. Where one of the heros of humanity is consider by the public to be one of the worlds most dangerous terrorists(that would be Morpheus).

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
somehow he comes to conclusions about you in a 2 or 3 sentence reply..

Well, i've come to the conclusion that dooper, unless he's somebody who pretends to be somebody else on the internet, is like gunny highway from Heartbreak Ridge. He should be stored in a glass case which reads "break only in the event of war". Not meant to be an insult, but he seems pretty set in his ways .

but thank you whole heartedly...I have been screaming from the rooftops and jumping up and down how this "war" on terrorism should be an extended special operations campaign...with air support... for the last 4 years...

It makes perfect sense. Make their lives miserable at every corner, and cut off their recruiting base, people who've lost everything due to the indiscriminate open wars.

reply to post by dooper


Okay, well the bible is a pretty violent book as well, no?

Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran? Is there a way to objectively answer such a question?

Well, it wouldn't be easy. But it is possible to compare the amount of cruelty and violence in the two books. Here is a summary of the highlighted verses in the SAB and SAQ.

Number of Cruel or Violent Passages
Bible 842
Quran 333

So the Bible has more than twice as many cruel or violent passages as does the Quran. But the Bible is a much bigger book. How do they compare when size is taken into account?

Violence and Cruelty Total verses Percent
Bible 842 31102 2.71
Quran 333 6236 5.34

When expressed as a percentage of cruel or violent verses (at least as marked in the SAB/Q), the Quran has about twice that of the Bible. (5.34 vs. 2.71%)*

Of course this analysis does not consider the extent of the cruelty in the marked passages. And that is an important consideration. Is Numbers 31:14-18, for example, more cruel than Quran 5:34? That is something that each person must decide.

A good argument could be made that either book is the most violent and cruel book ever written. The award would go to one or the other, for neither has any close competitors. It is frightening to think that more than half of the world's population believes in one or the other.
skepticsannotatedbible.com...

Deuteronomy 7:1-2:

"... the seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them."

Joshua 6:21:

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword."
www.religioustolerance.org...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
They seem to have killed 3000 civilians on 9/11

They seem to have blown up nightclubs killing more civilians.

They seem to have blown up passenger trains killing even more civilians.


Yup that will teach our Governments a lesson.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

i'm hoping you're being sarcastic, you seem like your being sarcastic. Almost certain you are actually, but the thoughts perturb me none the less, because there are actually people who genuinely believe this stuff . . .

Well, here's a "flame" anyway, which is directed towards those who actually believe the stuff your saying in jest . . .

the U.S.A. is responsible for killing HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people. That's not 1 million but HUNDREDS of millions. Native Americans, Atom Bombs, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq & all the other endeavors in the middle east ring any bells????????????

at least 100,000,000 natives That's 100 MILLION
200,000 CIVILIAN Japanese with the bombs.
Over 200,000 CIVILIANS in the gulf war.
3,648–3,767 CIVILIAN deaths in the Iraq war. Probably nearing 1 million total Iraqi casualties at this point.

sure there are lots of other foreign endeavors i'm forgetting . . .

all of the other false flag, terrorist activity, black opps, supporting isreal uhhhh . . .

not to mention the blood on our hands from all of the weapons we've secretly sold countries over the years to fight their wars and kill more people.

How about funding and supplying weapons for both sides during WW1?



and 9-11? are you serious people?

[edit on 9/14/2009 by JPhish]

sometimes the truth hurts

what more do i need to add? star for the post above.

and on reflection let me post another vid / music

Viewer discretion is advised!

In defence of the OP, I do not think it was his intention to state that terrorists acts perpetrated against Westerners is acceptable. All this confusion seems to come from the wording of the title of the thread - which is provocative. Unsurprisingly this will draw out a lot of emotion from people and the thread will get derailed off topic.

Note to OP: accusing people of using disfino and questioning their positions based on other threads will result in these people getting pissed off at you. Hence, don't do it! You also have the responsibility as well as everyone else not to take the thread off topic.

Everyone just needs to take a break and cool off. In fighting benefits the enemy to the detriment of your allies.

reply to post by jd140


you sir are a fool, put the shoe on the other foot, that your nation had suffered what these nations have at the hands of your armys and governments, then how would you feel?, it would be a different story?