Were The Terrorists Right All Along?

all you americans talk of your constitution and of swearing oaths, but they are just words, you swear an oath because that is what the job requires, your precious constitution is in tatters, you climb over each other to get to the top of the pile, never reaching behind you to help anyone else. all the while your governments have been playing games with the politics of foreign lands, trying to mold the world the way they want it, causeing death and suffering, but keeping the american people in a big enough bubble that they will probably never hear about half of the things that they have done, and disbelieve it when they do hear, you wonder why "terrorists" brought the fight to your country, when for decades you have been taking it to theirs, most of your people doubt the official story and suspect your own leaders of involvement in the "attacks" of 9/11, what do you think the rest of the world thinks of your nation when you think these things yourselves.

answer me this, what has it got to do with america if a foreign nation wishes to be communist or non democratic?

reply to post by open_eyeballs


From the beginning, and as I've stated on other threads, there is only one way to conduct war: Total war or stay home.

No in between, no half-assed measures.

Go in hard right off the bat, kill your enemies, and then come home.

We haven't done that in either Iraq or Afghanistan. We're more worried about hurting someone's feelings, or hitting the wrong people, when both Alexander and Genghis clearly demonstrated how you win in Afghanistan.

So if someone is trying to say our efforts aren't achieving the desired goal - then I would whole-heartedly agree.

Alexander had to depopulate vast areas of this region, and hunted them down to the last man.

Oddly, only the second person to defeat these people, Genghis, did exactly the same thing.

That's how you win.

Anything less is a waste of men, money, blood, effort, resources, and time.

reply to post by 27jd


Not only can I discern people in two or three sentences, I can sweep a room full of people and discern the trouble-makers, those who want to be left alone, and those who are on the prod.

Not only that, but I can not only track a man or beast, and often beat them to their objective.

Geez.

You can't just read sign?

Or do you need an entire portfolio on someone to get a read on them?

Never figured out what that intuition thing is, did you?

reply to post by 27jd


For all your little quotes on the violence in the books, it takes a retard to not know that the primary difference between all religions, is that Islam is the only religion in the world, among all others, to teach the killing of disbelievers of Islam.

Judiasm doesn't teach killing all non-Jews.

Christianity doesn't teach killing of all non-Christians.

Buddism doesn't teach killing of all non-Buddists.

Taoism doesn't teach killing of all non-Taoists,

Hinduism doesn't teach mandatory killing of all non-Hindus.

Sikhism doesn't teach mandatory killing of all non-Sikhs.

Shintoism doesn't teach mandatory killing of all non-Shintos.


Where do you people learn your history? What nether regions do you pull your logic out of?

God I hope this isn't contagious.

reply to post by JPhish


A little difficult to kill hundred of millions when American Indians, such as my great-great-great-great grandmother, in 1492, didn't number but around 18 million.

Did you count the Indians killed by other Indian tribes through the constant warfare?

Go back and sharpen your pencil.

It's likely to be the only thing you have that can make a point.

reply to post by dooper


im counting all the Native Americans, not just the natives of North America.

I'm talking about all of the deaths caused by the U.S. (former British settlers). Natives killed through disease brought by us, intentionally spread by us, British/colonial wars, inter-tribal wars incited by the U.S./Britain, manifest destiny, expansion of U.S. territories up till now, infringement upon their way of life, stolen land, recent U.S. wars and wars instigated by the U.S too . . .

I'm including the natives in central and southern America whom were killed by the U.S. "way of life" as well. Over a span of 500* years. Yeah, crunch those numbers. It's probably the most massive genocide ever . . .

Not as dramatic as shoving people into ovens, but if you take someones land, bring plagues upon them, murder them and goad them into killing each other as well; it's still the total annihilation of a race. I'm going to call it a genocide, you can call it whatever you want . . .

It's over 100 million.

[edit on 9/15/2009 by JPhish]

reply to post by dooper


dooper my friend,

It is time to grow up..

I have been reading your posts and can clearly see you are still buying into the brainwashing.

Once you find peace in your MIND, you will stop seeing everybody as the 'enemy' that needs to be killed.

Try filling your mind with thoughts of LOVE and COMPASSION for your fellow humans instead of hate and anger....

If you want to change the world to a better place, you have to start first with changing the way you perceive it!

PEACE and LOVE..

reply to post by breakingdradles


Well actually, the number might be as high as 30 to 50 million worldwide according to the conference held in Chicago last year. There are supposedly 1 billion muslims currently and if 13 to 50 million would like nothing more than for us to be eliminated, I would say that's a pretty scary number.

reply to post by dooper


I think you are 100% correct, no other religion teaches convert or die.

The best slaves are not just those who think they're free;
the best slaves are those who think they're free and actually pay for
their own room, board, and upkeep.
Welcome to the animal farm.

Wardoc

reply to post by Stinkhorn1


well not really.. considering there is 7 Billion people on the planet ...

The only spooky part is some peoples Perception of the game being played.

Dooper likes to think its all about the "religion" and touts that it says kill other non believers..

guess he has never heard of a hieratic or the inquisition..

Ironic 1 and 2 stupid..

reply to post by Stinkhorn1


Yup and the world is flat .. woops sorry i did not mean to say that.. please do not burn me.

you should not lob stones if you live in a glass house my friend..

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Ahhh, yeah, the inquisition was during the dark ages when people were overly superstitious and ignorant, I think Europeans have grown since then. Whereas the muslim religion has not changed in over 1000 years and is still in the stone age.

That is the difference today, can you not see it?

[edit on 15-9-2009 by Stinkhorn1]

Originally posted by dooper
Not only can I discern people in two or three sentences, I can sweep a room full of people and discern the trouble-makers, those who want to be left alone, and those who are on the prod.

Well, you failed miserably when discerning me. You have no clue who i am, but you however are very easy to discern. Like i said, unless you're somebody who pretends to be somebody else, you're a living right wing extremist stereotype. Every bit as ignorant, intolerant, and violent as a muslim extremist. Just read your kill everybody comments above, that is NOT honorable, or the way a soldier should conduct himself. Not in our names. But i know you fought for YOUR values, not american values.

Do you really feel that special forces couldn't mop the floor with some cave dwellers, and get out before breakfast? I know they could. There is no reason to occupy any country, and no need to behave like some of the worst mass murderers in history that you named as role models. You have NO moral high ground over Bin Laden. None.

Never figured out what that intuition thing is, did you?

I have my own intuition, as i stated before. Your problem is, you believe yours is correct. You're wrong, and you've probably harmed alot of innocent people if my intuition is correct.

Originally posted by dooper
For all your little quotes on the violence in the books, it takes a retard to not know that the primary difference between all religions, is that Islam is the only religion in the world, among all others, to teach the killing of disbelievers of Islam.

Retard, huh?

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

www.evilbible.com...

No difference dooper. But you know that anyway, with all the studying and education you brag of. You just don't care, and you probably agree with killing all non-christians. But you won't admit it, at least the muslim extremists are honest about their goals...




[edit on 15-9-2009 by 27jd]

I do not know why I am writing this as I view upon the horizon the hell I may receive afterward.

However, the subject of this thread is clutching the idea that, or better begging the question of whether or not the "terrorists" generally speaking were "right" in their actions.

I have read numerous, numerous history texts, history perceptions, human developmental script, geography/geology, and of course psychology.

Here is my opinion guys: We are are generally the same beneath a few inches of skin. We have been (as far as we know) randomly spawned in varying areas of the planet and immediately given identity, a flag, a leader, laws, and often a religion. None of this is chosen at a time of any mental capacity. We were all what we are by default until reaching maturity and perhaps realizing these facts and altering or at least accepting.

The "TERRORISTS" are from all over the world. The ones i believe you are speaking of are middle eastern. The Middle east was the ground between the major empires trade route and was demolished time after time not to mention was the home or near the home of the Fertile Crescent (cradle of the first civilization)... Moving on, the middle east is basically a desert (the areas which spawn terrorists) and produce typically only oil/drugs both of which are in high demand in 1st world countries. THEREFORE yes, the middle east, arabians, whoever they were and are today have been munipulated and stomped on constantly since basically the beginning of time and any of you who were "SPAWNED" there by no fault of your own (as it's not theres) would be REALLY pissed off and grabbing a rifle if foreignors were coming over since the begnning of time blowing up your families, shooting your families, and taking your only means of survival.

As soon as the oil is gone, they will be back to Bedouins. The shieks know this. Hence the wars funded by them.

I hope I haven't offended anybody, I should disclaim again that nobody really chose where they were born/what color/what language... even the invaders... we are ALL munipulated by a few power select. Nobody is "RIGHT" nobody is "WRONG" ...

Just truth my friends. Acceptance. (If you are ever talking/writing and get emotional , this means it is your ego speaking, and you should stop.)

Back to the video: I believe it was presented in a solid sensible, and very patient and lovingly considerate way. I also agree that their religion is 1,000 years behind the modern maturity of the race. But who caused them to retain that burden?

I too totally disagree with the views of the ones calling the shots from both sides. I also believe that these leader do not speak for the sincerity of the people under the rule of both sides; thus the well intended video.

Like I say over and over: It's the ones that tie the cats' tails together and throw them across the clothes-line, only to see the other cat as the threat, being the ones that are to blame; and not the other cat.

If the human race learns that then they will all learn tolerance. I do not see that happening without a deep world event occurring. If MSM might be taken down, then the worlds' population might stand a chance. Otherwise worlds population will still be following the dark agenda of the few in control of the show.

No consequencE..

Thank you.

reply to post by dooper


Dude, you are comparing dark age tactics and pre-B.C. strategies with todays age? are you serious?

Shall we post their heads on steaks to show the local population who the new authority is as well??

Or shall we burn those that are fearful of informing us?
Maybe we should start burning ll the non christians..you know the way nero did to the christians?? payback is a bitch eh?

well sorry, doesnt work like that. like it or not this is a progressive world.. Its why we no longer live under a feudal system that ran europe for 1000 years...we progress...thinking progresses and even militarey strategy progresses...

I really dont think you are thinking through your reply. Both those historical figures you mentioned went through this region with one thing in mind...Conquest..

The last time I checked the constitution gives no authority to the America federal government to send American men and women over seas for conquest.

If you want to build an empire, then fine...Leave this country...this republic... and go start your own empire quest...

If we had gone in and just layed complete waste to everything in sight of these "terrorists" what in teh hell do you think would have happened? You dont think WWIII would have been sparked?...how about sanctions on America? How about a united front against America? Now we have the draft and things deteriorate quickly...

Thank God you have nothing to do with decision making at the highest levels of our military.

Your comparison is assesnin and beyond ignorant.

And your ultimatum is null and void of rational thinking. Being someone who studied special forces and someone who once aspired to become one...I can assure you and anyone else they could get the job done far better than the jar heads roaming around these mountains with no cover...and playing police in streets of kabul...

not their job...not their mission...they and the army boys are being used for something they have not been trained properly in and have purpose for...their lives have been equal to a pawn in a chess game...how utterly selfish of you to not see this...

It may have taken a while longer before the first shot was fired, but I can guarantee you after the proper amount of intel gathering it would have taken far less bullets and far less resources to get the job done...and done right

...these men are trained to be the best in the world... thast why the training is so stringent..so meticulous an dso long...they should have been expanded and sent on a hunting mission...and in this sense wipe out anyone who got in there way...the cia should have been let loose and maybe they could have done something useful besides stir the # pot.

Also, our objective was to kill the ghost that is "Al Queada"...not to remove Taliban..they were a stepping stone...You want to believe the Taliban is the enemy then go right ahead...let your neo-con masters whip you like the dog they want you to be...

Dont give a crap about Bushs oil pipe..Dont give a crap whether Afhganistan is a democratic nation..dont give acrap whether they have a constitution..thats what the u.n. is for..let them take care of world policing and other countries policies..if they dont want to...then not our problem an dsure in the hell not our job...

somewhere down the line the neo con and the neo con supporters became globalists hell bent on spreading democracy and stomping out everything but capitalism and the things that support their greedy way of life...

time to call it the way it is dooper...enough with the rhetoric...

reply to post by JPhish


From the Inuit to the southern tip of South America, there were only 125 million.

And the US killed 100 million?

Are you on something?

Certainly no advanced degree in mathematics here . . .

I think you'll do better sticking to UFO's.

No mathematics involved.



[edit on 15-9-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by rainfall


Your problem is that you've never been among the heathen.

You've never ever met folks who want to kill you - just because they can.

You've never, ever come upon a peaceful, small village an hour or so after it was slaughtered, including all men, women, and children.

You've never seen the evil that men can and often do.

You think if you're a happy, forgiving person, then everyone else will emulate you.

You've never, ever been covered from head to toe in blood and gore of your friends.

And I'm the one that needs to grow up?

I advanced twenty years in one day. And then repeated that same advancement scores of days.

Maybe you need to get out of the house sometime, ruck up, head into the badlands, and see just how far your delusions of mankind get you.

And just about the time someone puts the knife to your throat - even though you've done nothing to them - you remember the words of Dooper . . . as you slip into the darkness.

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Contrary to your statement, I don't like to think about religions. I don't dwell on the nuances.

I don't give a fuzzy rat's ass if these people shave their heads, wear purple hats, and tie kerosene rags to their ankles, it's not about religion - EXCEPT TO THEM.

YOU may dismiss religion, but others don't.

It isn't about you. It isn't about whether you believe in God or not.

It's what THEY believe.

I really don't care what your viewpoints on religion are - you don't matter. You don't enter in to the calculation.

You aren't even an integer, much less a variable.

Just a target of a bloody group of OTHER people who strongly believe in THEIR religion.

Damn.