Were The Terrorists Right All Along?

reply to post by dooper


Wow. Could you be anymore dramatic and blatantly hypocritical? In that rant, you talk about going to the "badlands", where everybody wants to kill you because they can. I think your experience is based on being an invader, somebody sent there to kill them, the people you are speaking of are BOUND by their customs to take you into their home, and treat you and protect you like family, all you have to do is request it. I think any of us would likely do JUST FINE in those areas, as long as we're not there to bring war. Try that here in the states, you'll get robbed, beaten, or killed MUCH quicker in some parts here in the U.S.A.

Then you talk about seeing evil and not a few posts above, you brag about being just as evil and murderous. You call that "growing up", but i call it "growing down", down to the very depths of evil and hatred that would make lucifer himself glow, if he exists. It sucks that you've been through so much hell, that your brain has been twisted to the point of thinking evil is good, as long as the evil is YOUR evil.

reply to post by 27jd

I don't need to KNOW you to know your type. You're nothing special, and over the years, I've met hundreds like you, and seen thousands that you would blend right in with.

Me, I know who I am. I know my exact limitations, I know my capabilities, from experience in action I can tell you exactly what I will do when surprised, when outnumbered, which threats I will engage in descending order, and I know exactly my cleanup process.

I don't give a damn about your opinion of me as you don't matter to me You're just one of thousands just alike. Your opinions on this topic were derived from others - certainly not from experience.

And yet you presume to tell me about how a soldier should act! I've seen soldiers under every stress, every conceivable pressure, and somehow you're the expert on soldiers!

The very first combat patrol I ever went on, there were twelve of us that morning, and two left come sundown. And yet it was a good day. Now I know you would have no concept of how such an apparent disaster could possibly be considered a good day, but this is exactly what I'm talking about - you don't know.

You're entirely correct in that I didn't fight for you, your values, or your deluded perceptions. I fought for the men beside me, and I'd kill anything that walked, talked, balked, moaned, or squalked, just to buy them another minute.

What you may perceive as barbarity, in the moment is actually necessity. Your mistaken perceptions come from sitting on your ass far removed from the demands of the moment and making judgments far removed from the action. Through a rear-view mirror.

You're also right about the necessity of occupying a country. There is never a need to occupy territory - assuming you conquered your enemy and you won. War is two sides killing each other until one side is unable to kill further, or unwilling to die further.

If you have any other romantic notions about the nature of warfare - take up philosophy. War is just that simple. The more you kill the faster, the quicker it's over with, and the sooner the suffering on both sides is over with.

Anything less than total war, total effort, and you are perpetuating the misery.

You point out Old Testament scriptures where the people of Israel were to take possession of the land they were promised. I've seen the scriptures referring to the taking of Ai many times, and they were commanded to kill everyone and everything.

Just for the record, that's how you win a war and you don't have to worry about their little bastards growing up to kill your children. But a lot of pacifist and fairies don't mind handing off to their children years of terror and threat, as long as their parents can hang onto their perceptions of "honor" and "tolerance."

Another mistaken assumption of yours is that I would somehow want non-Christians dead - a piss-poor attempt to equate me with Muslim fundamentalists.

So no, again, your attempt to place these murderous bastards on a higher plane than me fails entirely.

When the Muslims want to bring it on - as a fighting man I have no problem with that. As long as no one has a problem with me zeroing them out in the manner I determine appropriate at the moment.

I don't go looking for trouble - never have - but if someone comes looking for trouble - I'd SURE hate to see them go away disappointed.

reply to post by 27jd


I was referring to the Social workers, UN workers, and others that went to Iraq to help the Iraqi's and in turn were captured and had their heads cut off.

Including a middle-aged British woman. Who only desired to help. But Musim fundamentalists, did EXACTLY what their prophet commanded them to do.

No rant.

Just facts.

reply to post by dooper


You sound like a broken record, dooper. We all know what a bad@ss you are, or were (since you were in Nam, you must be getting up there in years, your body is probably not quite as eager as your mind or ego anymore, which may explain why you're so angry). The BS about me sitting on my @ss is nothing but more assumption on your part. Just because i've ALWAYS had a severe mistrust of the corporate men who have HIJACKED this country (the domestic enemies you swore to defend against) using your own ignorance to control you, i never joined the military.

You know NOTHING of my personal experiences, and i have no need to share them with a stranger on the internet. I'm an Aries, FULL blown. I'm not some pacifist with no concept of anger or vengeance, i just direct it to those who truly would harm those i love, or anybody else who just want to live their lives without harming others. I feel the need for balance within myself. I feel the need to protect innocents, ALL of them, regardless of their country of origins, from evil men. There is no such organization in this world, but if there were i would join it in a heartbeat. Our military, regardless of the noble intentions of most soldiers, has been hijacked with this country, to pursue corporate, globalist interests. I want no part of that, but i DO stand ready and armed to the teeth to defend my family and my neighbors from attack, unlike our military who is everywhere but here.

At least you admit you never stood to defend the people of this country, or what it was supposed to stand for. You are probably nothing more than a bully who joined solely to harm others, and to defend ONLY those who share your values. I truly hope folks like you are a minority in the military. As for putting muslim extremists on a plane above you, that's not what i was trying to do. You are neither above or beneath them, you are on the exact same level, IMO. I know you don't care what i think, and i have no desire to read another post about all the blood you've bathed in. Your views are nothing but evil, formed by too much exposure to evil.

Just felt the need to address this part directly...

Just for the record, that's how you win a war and you don't have to worry about their little bastards growing up to kill your children.

Again, there is no war. You are justifying the murder of children, just in case they grow up to be an extremist like yourself, to protect your future extremist children. That's so disgusting, and beyond the pale of any human decency. That little statement, makes you a monster up there with Hitler (though i'm sure you'll take that as a compliment) in my book. I don't even think i've heard muslim extremists brag about, or threaten to kill our children.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by 27jd]

reply to post by dooper


You're speaking about CRIMINAL organizations, out to make a political point. No different from drug cartels, etc. who do the EXACT same things. But you want to paint it as the entire populations of these areas being mindless zombies out to kill any westerners they see, as justification to commit genocide. Why have you not declared war on south america and mexico as well, since in your mind the people in any given country should be held responsible for the actions of criminal gangs? Also, I'm quite sure that a foreigner wandering around in the ozarks after dark, probably wouldn't fare so well either. There are backwards, ignorant, hateful people everywhere. But again, NO standing army has declared war on us, there is nothing to "win".

reply to post by dooper


You have every right to want to kill those in battle who threaten you and your mens life. To stay alive in those situations it does require ruthlessness...no questions asked...I absolutely agree...I heard my fathers stories who did two tours in vietnam...best friend killed...saw and lived the horrors of tet offensive...then when he got home just off the plane was called a baby killer and was spat in his face...by some pos liberal bastard. I may not know first hand these horrific experiences, but i can tell you i had every intention of carrying on the family tradition of war...ww2 both grandfathers...vietnam..father...and then me... war on terrorism..

I joined the military to kill those who perpetrated 9/11...i would still kill them...in the blink of an eye...no matter who they are...

but there has to come a point...a point where a realization has to occur in ones mind about the reality of the situation...and let the romanticized war effort propogandized by the media go...

this argument that endless bloodshed needs to occurr to stomp out terrorism is one that has been used since the days of the ancients in your examples...

every civilization (including jews) has used propoganda to wage war since the inception of man...today is nothing new...

what is new about today is the progressive thinking that has occured since the age of enlightenment by the poor man who has to strap up his jungle boots to fight some pos bastard politicians war...no matter the stated purpose...it wasnt supposed to be like that for america...that was not the intent of our constitution.

i have much respect for those who stand up and fight for the things they believe in...and to win...a war..it does take ruthlesness...

but on what scale? a scale that endagers hundreds of thousands of men and women ? a scale that allows hate to be breed past my sons generation? so war is perpetual? so my son...his son... goes to war to fight the war on communism?? terrorism?? drugs?? or even better a war to spread capitalism??

i say my sons life is worth more than that..and i will be dammed if someone is going to try to send him somewhere he may be killed for any of those reasons...i would be the first to sign on the dotted line (again)if we were threatened by some foreign threat...front lines here i come...and i know millions would feel the same way...but to die for an elitist to advance his agenda in completeing globalization so some afhganistan can by a #ing new shiny car..i dont #ing think so

her in essence is your problem...you believe to win there needs to be war...on massive scale...a war does not have to be on massive scale..it can be done tactically..on a case by case scenario...thats what the cia did all throughout the cold war...and look where that got us..the world leading superpower..

that same strategy could very easily work here, but no..we have lunatics as leaders who think its more important we spread a message to anyone who disgrees with our #ing monetary policy...thats right...monetary policy and world political agendas...or globalization..whatever the reason may be...i just know it aint what they tell us it is..its not for our safety..that, i know as sure as i am sitting here typing this...

our forefathers saw this and specifically limited the role of government for these kinds of very real reasons and here we are..the ones fighting with each other about those very things outlined in our constitution...the things that are supposed to limit the very threat that we have endangered ourselves with...its fricken pathetic...

its time to learn...and learn quickly. before its too late.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


I hope there are many more in the military like yourself. And i hope one day enough americans, military and civilian alike, awaken to the fact this country has been stolen by the greedy bankers our forefathers warned us against. Thank you for your service.

reply to post by mf_luder


UGGHHHHHHHhhhhh another brain dead grunt..... I was there too mister, and now wish i never put on a uniform and represented a goverment that lied to get us there in the first place. That killed its own citizens to get us there, that funded and traind said people to do the job for us, that kills in thousands and thousands innocent fellow human beings for what? Why?
And people like you glory in the death of another human soul.. I have killed also, and i see them every night, i see there families, thier mothers who raised these people to die at the hands of idiots with guns who are fighting over lies. lies, lies!!!
Wake up man, open your eyes, and when you finally see, why dont you start to defend the real constitution you vowed to protect and rid us of these liars and criminals who not only want our minds but our souls also?

reply to post by 27jd


Yes, I'm getting older, and except for good fortune with genetics, I have no gray hair, I'm usually about fifteen pounds more than when I got out of the military, I can still bench press my weight, run the two miles in 10:55, can shoot flies off a watermelon at 25 yards, still can and do stalk wild turkeys and bring them home, and if it's under 800 meters with a rifle, I own it. If it's under 125 meters, with my wheelgun, I own it, and in fact in recent years do my deer and hog hunting with my pistol. So my eyesight, hand/eye coordination is still good. And I arrived in plenty of time for the Easter Offensive, so no, I'm not that old.

Yes, I'm older than yesterday, and the day before. But not so anyone would notice.

Yeah, I'm sure those corporate types are VERY grateful that you didn't join the military - or very sorrowful you didn't join the military, whichever way you want us to think.

We used to have a word for a person who found really half-assed excuses not to join the military, but it escapes me for the moment.

Corporate types. Now THAT one I've never heard before. Very creative, mind you, just never heard that one.

And my God! I can't believe it! You're an Ares? Wow. Someone educate me here, I'm not certain how a distant constellation has to do with anything here . . .

I think it's good you're fierce, ready, and armed to the teeth. Now, if you just had a clue as to what you would do . . .

Yes, I suppose many of my views are defined by much of the evil I've seen. Stick around, kid, the way things are going, very soon your vision is likely to be as tainted as mine was. If you survive.

Actually I was a beach bum without a care in the world - it was all surfing, girls, more surfing, and more girls. When it became apparent that I WAS going into the military, I merely signed up for the finest outfit in the Army. And I made it. And in combat it paid off.

You may think you hope my kind are a minority in the military, but if it were your brother, or a child in combat - I'm precisely the SOB you want right beside them.

Against adversaries, you live, you win. You keep your brothers alive - you win bigger.

Living after meeting adversaries is winning.

Living is winning.

The alternative is disgusting.

Originally posted by dooper
Yes, I'm getting older, and except for good fortune with genetics, I have no gray hair, I'm usually about fifteen pounds more than when I got out of the military, I can still bench press my weight, run the two miles in 10:55, can shoot flies off a watermelon at 25 yards, still can and do stalk wild turkeys and bring them home, and if it's under 800 meters with a rifle, I own it. If it's under 125 meters, with my wheelgun, I own it, and in fact in recent years do my deer and hog hunting with my pistol. So my eyesight, hand/eye coordination is still good. And I arrived in plenty of time for the Easter Offensive, so no, I'm not that old.

Holy crap, you're Chuck Norris. I've never seen anybody on ATS with as many good things to say about themselves. At least you have a healthy self-esteem, lol. Deer hunting with a pistol? You must be able to become the woods, like Rambo.

We used to have a word for a person who found really half-assed excuses not to join the military, but it escapes me for the moment.

Let me help you out, it's called "independent". There's nothing half-assed about not signing yourself away to an entity you do not trust, to do the bidding of greedy old men that send other people's chldren to die for their fortune. Aren't you the one railing against communism and mandated government service in so many other threads?? I'm curious what you think about mr. draft dodger cheney, and mr. AWOL bush, who's daddy got him past the waiting list for the national guard so he could stay in the states and snort coke? Since you're a partisan tool, i'm sure you have nothing bad to say about them.

And my God! I can't believe it! You're an Ares? Wow. Someone educate me here, I'm not certain how a distant constellation has to do with anything here . . .

I'm gonna educate you, although i know your christian extremist butt is just being sarcastic, you have no desire to understand astrology...

For those who understand astrology, there remains little doubt to its validity. Although there’s no conclusive scientific evidence that adequately explains why astrology works, there are some scientific theories that abound indicating why it can work. There have been many intellectuals, including Sir Isaac Newton and Carl Jung, who have believed in the validity of astrology.

Carl Jung best explained the idea of the cosmic clock by stating that time is not a linear phenomenon. What happens at one moment will influence what happens at another moment in time. In other words, things happen because they are related and correspond to each other. Everything is connected. At a given time, the sun, moon and planets are all in a specified position in the sky. Their movements are given and precise. The astrologer has learned through the years to interpret what meanings these positions have on a variety of events. By knowing the precise time of one’s birth, an astrologer can tell what tendencies and characteristics this person possesses from the positions of the planets at that given time.
Read more: astrology.suite101.com...

Now, if you just had a clue as to what you would do . . .

Again, you are making assumptions about my personal experiences. Assumptions like that, were not something i thought such an experienced veteran would make.

Stick around, kid, the way things are going, very soon your vision is likely to be as tainted as mine was. If you survive.

We'll just have to wait and see...

You may think you hope my kind are a minority in the military, but if it were your brother, or a child in combat - I'm precisely the SOB you want right beside them.

You don't have to be a monster, to be a fierce warrior and defend your nation. There is no glory in the murder of children and innocents in their homes. We should have never been on their soil to begin with (i know that wasn't your call to make). There hasn't been a real military threat to our nation since WWII. The wars since have been political proxy extensions of the cold war, which only served the corrupt politicans here and in the U.S.S.R.



[edit on 15-9-2009 by 27jd]

Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by dooper

 

You sound like a broken record, dooper. We all know what a bad@ss you are, or were (since you were in Nam, you must be getting up there in years, your body is probably not quite as eager as your mind or ego anymore, which may explain why you're so angry). The BS about me sitting on my @ss is nothing but more assumption on your part. Just because i've ALWAYS had a severe mistrust of the corporate men who have HIJACKED this country (the domestic enemies you swore to defend against) using your own ignorance to control you, i never joined the military.

You know NOTHING of my personal experiences, and i have no need to share them with a stranger on the internet. I'm an Aries, FULL blown. I'm not some pacifist with no concept of anger or vengeance, i just direct it to those who truly would harm those i love, or anybody else who just want to live their lives without harming others. I feel the need for balance within myself. I feel the need to protect innocents, ALL of them, regardless of their country of origins, from evil men. There is no such organization in this world, but if there were i would join it in a heartbeat. Our military, regardless of the noble intentions of most soldiers, has been hijacked with this country, to pursue corporate, globalist interests. I want no part of that, but i DO stand ready and armed to the teeth to defend my family and my neighbors from attack, unlike our military who is everywhere but here.

At least you admit you never stood to defend the people of this country, or what it was supposed to stand for. You are probably nothing more than a bully who joined solely to harm others, and to defend ONLY those who share your values. I truly hope folks like you are a minority in the military. As for putting muslim extremists on a plane above you, that's not what i was trying to do. You are neither above or beneath them, you are on the exact same level, IMO. I know you don't care what i think, and i have no desire to read another post about all the blood you've bathed in. Your views are nothing but evil, formed by too much exposure to evil.

Just felt the need to address this part directly...

Just for the record, that's how you win a war and you don't have to worry about their little bastards growing up to kill your children.

Again, there is no war. You are justifying the murder of children, just in case they grow up to be an extremist like yourself, to protect your future extremist children. That's so disgusting, and beyond the pale of any human decency. That little statement, makes you a monster up there with Hitler (though i'm sure you'll take that as a compliment) in my book. I don't even think i've heard muslim extremists brag about, or threaten to kill our children.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by 27jd]

WOW!! 27jd, I got a tear in my eye reading your post...

I hate your avatar but I just added you as a friend

PEACE and LOVE..

Originally posted by rainfall
I hate your avatar

Why?

So many people hate it, and think it's terribly evil. It's from a cheesy B rated zombie movie called 'The Evil Dead'.

I've always wanted to change my avatar since i'm tired of that one, but i really don't know how. I don't even know how i managed to get that one to work, i just messed around til i did.

but I just added you as a friend

Thanks, ditto.

reply to post by 27jd


I like your avatar.

I literally LOL'd when I first saw it.

It looks like it's shyly smiling at me lol.

reply to post by breakingdradles


Yeah, people seem to either really like it, or hate it. I've even been accused of being skull & bones because of it, lol. I've seen so many awesome ones that i've been jealous of, my favorite recently is the member who has the guided missile footage that ends up on the kitten with a tear in it's eye...that one is great.

reply to post by 27jd

Originally posted by 27jd
You don't have to be a monster, to be a fierce warrior and defend your nation. There is no glory in the murder of children and innocents in their homes. We should have never been on their soil to begin with (i know that wasn't your call to make). There hasn't been a real military threat to our nation since WWII. The wars since have been political proxy extensions of the cold war, which only served the corrupt politicans here and in the U.S.S.R.

No, we just let them blow up trains, Hotels and fly planes into buildings.

www.chinaview.cn

In the ten minute recording the voice which is purported to be that of America's most wanted terrorist, says the U.S. president is "powerless" to stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The authenticity of the audio recording could not be independently verified.

The message was released by As-Sahab, Al-Qaeda's media wing, and distributed to several Jihadist websites. Part of the taped message condemns the United States support of Israel.

"We have already shown, and we have stated many times in more than two decades since the start of our disagreement with you, which is caused by your support for the Israelis who are occupying our land of Palestine, and which led us to carry out the events on September 11, 2001,"

CNN

"To the American people, this is my message to you: a reminder of the reasons behind 9/11 and the wars and the repercussions that followed and the way to resolve it," the message said.

"From the beginning, we have stated many times ... that the cause of our disagreement with you is your support of your allies, the Israelis, who are occupying our land in Palestine. Your stance along with some other grievances are what led us to carry out the events of 9/11."

As far as "political proxy extensions" maybe for those cowardly Soviets who fought theirs through proxies in Angola, Nicaragua, Honduras, Korea, and Vietnam etc. I recall the US having boots on the ground in Korea and Vietnam. Win, Lose or Draw.

I have ten times more respect for the communist Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese than for the Soviets. At least the US and those who we fought against were willing to put their rears on the line while taking heavy casualties.

It wasn't until the Soviets decided to join in the fun in Afghanistan where they took a beating something to the tune of 18000+ casualties, that they finally realized just how much these little wars cost. Apparently that was just enough of a Nosebleed that it helped contribute to their downfall.

War is hell and should be avoided at all costs. Remember if you screw around with a tiger's tail you're gonna get bit.


[edit on 15-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by 27jd

You say you don't have to be a monster to defend your nation. Well, it really helps if you are one of those who have the monster inside you, which enables you to do some rather surprising things with a surprising awareness, resulting in very surprising results.

You won't know anything about that, but the Greeks had a term for it.

Yes, I hunt deer with my pistol. It's a US Arms .44 magnum Elmer Keith said was the best built pistol he'd ever seen, has a seven and half inch barrel, and I handload some pretty hot 200 grain bullets for increased velocity and flatter trajectory over the 240 grain bullets.

Apparently you don't know diddly squat about firearms, and even less about hunting.

Nothing to it. Open sights, and it's good to 125 yards. Taken black bear with it too. So what's hard to believe?

So when you say you're armed to the teeth, I'm assuming it has nothing to do with firearms. Golf clubs? Baseball bats? Or kitchen knives when you're really feeling aggressive?

"Independent" isn't the word I was thinking of. It started with a "C" or something like that.

And no, DO NOT again put words in my mouth again, as it wasn't "chikenschitt." Something close maybe, but that wasn't what I was thinking of.

Astrology. You are somehow special because of a pseudoscience called astrology? Shhhhhhhhht. This is all coming together now.

Not me. I was termed special by others because I did special things, with special skills, under special circumstances, with special forces.

Your grasp of history is only exceeded by your . . . never mind.

reply to post by 27jd


What?!?! The evil dead is NOT cheesy! This is movie blasphemy! The evil dead is a classic! I like number 2 the most, and I dont like army of darkness at all (the 3rd one).

Sorry for going off topic.

Originally posted by dooper
You say you don't have to be a monster to defend your nation. Well, it really helps if you are one of those who have the monster inside you, which enables you to do some rather surprising things with a surprising awareness, resulting in very surprising results.

So, how does any of that mean you have to kill children and lay waste to entire populations? I never said you should show mercy to those who are trying to kill you.

Apparently you don't know diddly squat about firearms, and even less about hunting.

Did i EVER say i was a hunter? I'm not into hunting, i've never had the desire to go out and kill an animal minding it's own business. I enjoy target shooting, personally. I keep my .38 special with me to defend against hostile wildlife when i'm gold prospecting. I've known many who hunt, and all use rifles. My mistake.

So when you say you're armed to the teeth, I'm assuming it has nothing to do with firearms. Golf clubs? Baseball bats? Or kitchen knives when you're really feeling aggressive?

What a jackass. So far in my collection, i have a taurus .38 special (with corbon high velocity rounds), mossberg 500 series pistol grip shotgun, cobray pm-11, and a romanian ak-47 with integrated barrell.

"Independent" isn't the word I was thinking of. It started with a "C" or something like that.

Whatever you say, dooper. What point is there in beating around the bush on the internet? I'm starting to understand you as well, and quite frankly i'm starting to think your full of shhhht.



[edit on 15-9-2009 by 27jd]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
No, we just let them blow up trains, Hotels and fly planes into buildings.

Yeah, key words "just let them". Our leaders LOVE those attacks by criminal organizations, it keeps people blindly supporting their wars for corporate interests in the middle east.

reply to post by jeasahtheseer


Sorry, i call all B rated movies "cheesy" out of habit. Evil Dead is a classic, i agree...

[edit on 15-9-2009 by 27jd]